MuxMan created VOB doesn't show any frames, how can I fix this?

[Carlos Garcia]

Hello, in a related post below I asked how to create a VOB from simply still BMP/JPG images and add them to an existing WAV file. I was referred to MuxMan, which seemed to do the trick. I created the VOB and associated BUP/IFO files that gave me what appeared to be a properly authored 3 minute video consisting of my wav file plus all the BMPs Muxman created for me. However, my problem came when I tried to use those files in a TMPGEnc DVD Author project. The MuxMan created files are not seen as continuous frames, but rather as just 1 frame. This confuses TMPGEnc DVD Author into not recognizing the project as a 3 minute VOB file consisting of both audio and video. Since it only sees 1 frame in the entire project, there's no way to properly add these files into my existing project. Anyway, my question is: Is there anyway I can properly re-create this 3 minute project (with either MuxMan or another program) and have the VOBs consist of frames that actually last for the duration of each BMP, instead of just the 1 frame MuxMan created for the entire project? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[mpucoder]

The problem is not with MuxMan, it is creating a proper slideshow using 1 I-picture frozen for the duration of the audio. When importing slideshows into many authoring programs, including MuxMan, you have to set the duration of the video again. Some authoring programs recognize the video as a slideshow and freeze it for a default period of time.

[Carlos Garcia]

The problem is not with MuxMan, it is creating a proper slideshow using 1 I-picture frozen for the duration of the audio. When importing slideshows into many authoring programs, including MuxMan, you have to set the duration of the video again. Some authoring programs recognize the video as a slideshow and freeze it for a default period of time.
Thank you for your reply mpucoder. Since I am using TMPGEnc DVD Author version 1.6 as my DVD authoring program, and it doesn't have an option to set the duration of the video, is there a work around I can possibly do so that the program will recognize the duration of the entire video in frames? Thanks again for your help.

[Zeul]

i think you are possibly not understanding what is happening.

When a BMP is imported into an authoring program, the authoring program will convert that BMP to a MPEG2 frame. This MPEG2 frame is then 'frozen' for a set period of time (this period is set by you) ie the frame is shown continuously on the TV. This is what Muxman has created for you (correctly).

I believe what you are wanting is the equivalent of 3 minutes worth of video, which in PAL land would be (3*60*25==4500 frames) or in NTSC land would be (3*60*30==5400 frames). NO Authoring app is going to make xx number of frames from a single BMP, as there is absolutely no need.

Does Tmpgenc have no option for creating a slideshow?

[Carlos Garcia]

i think you are possibly not understanding what is happening.

When a BMP is imported into an authoring program, the authoring program will convert that BMP to a MPEG2 frame. This MPEG2 frame is then 'frozen' for a set period of time (this period is set by you) ie the frame is shown continuously on the TV. This is what Muxman has created for you (correctly).

I believe what you are wanting is the equivalent of 3 minutes worth of video, which in PAL land would be (3*60*25==4500 frames) or in NTSC land would be (3*60*30==5400 frames). NO Authoring app is going to make xx number of frames from a single BMP, as there is absolutely no need.

Does Tmpgenc have no option for creating a slideshow?

Hi Zeul, thanks for your help. No, the version I have of TMPGEnc DVD Author doesn't have an option for creating a slideshow. Is there any way, other than inserting 5,400 of the same BMP in MuxMan, for me to create this VOB where instead of just 1 frame, it can create those 5,400 frames of the same BMP, so TMPGEnc DVD Author can read the source properly? Thanks again for the help.

[Zeul]

There is no workaround

[Pudah]

Could he try using an MPEG2 encoder to create a 3 minute m2v from his still image (pretty simple with an AviSynth script fed into something like HCenc) and mux that with his audio?

[Carlos Garcia]

There is no workaround

It seems odd that something that sounds so simple to do, isn't simple at all. I mean, what is so tough about a program producing the proper amount of frames to fill the equal amount of audio time on an mpg file?

[Zeul]

It seems odd that something that sounds so simple to do, isn't simple at all. I mean, what is so tough about a program producing the proper amount of frames to fill the equal amount of audio time on an mpg file?

What you fail to understand that is a slideshow (a single MPEG2 frame 'forzen' for xx amount of seconds) is part of the DVD specification. The reason - a single MPEG2 frame takes up MUCH less space that xx # of frames. Eg a single MPEG2 'I' frame may take up 100,000 bytes - 5400 'I' frames (3 PAL minutes) would take 100,000 * 5400 == 514MB of space + ~ 116KB for the headers. (Because the same bmp would be encoded over and over again i doubt any encoder could create B and P frames - so every frame would be a larger 'I' frame). So suddenly the same thing takes 514MB instead of 0.09MB This is the reason NO authoring app will do what you want. As a sidenote i also wonder what the picture would look like for the same frame to be repeatedly shown.

@Pudah
Although my useage with avisynth is limited what you propose could work, but with the consequences as explained.

[Pudah]

@Zeul
(Because the same bmp would be encoded over and over again i doubt any encoder could create B and P frames - so every frame would be a larger 'I' frame).
I was bored at work today (don't tell my boss!) so for grins I took a jpg and used AviSynth/HC to encode that jpg into an m2v. Watching the stats as HCEnc did its thing, I could see it creating B and P frames. From the log:

nr. of gops: 450
nr. of frames: 5396
nr. of I-frames: 450
nr. of P-frames: 1350
nr. of B-frames: 3596

I got similar results using a bmp. I'm definitely a rookie so I don't know if that's down to the image I used, the options I selected in HCenc or what.

[Sir Didymus]

Well, Pudah, the point is that it is a waste of resources not to use the slideshow capabilities allowed by the DVD-VIDEO standard...

However, I agree with you...
Just tested a little avisynth script (two lines), to create a 3000 frames avisynth clip:


ImageSource("Test.bmp", end=2999)
ConvertToYV12()


Using HCEnc via the following command line:


HCEnc_19 -i test.avs -o test.m2v -b 5000 -maxbitrate 8500 -gopsize 12 -mpeg2 -nocgop -nointerlaced -aspectratio 4:3


Creates, as it should, a 76MB file, with I, B and P frames...

So, it exist (thank to avisynth & HCEnc power!) a solution for Carlos Garcia, but the point does not change at all:
- why to trow away 76 MB of space for such a static video asset ?

Cheers,
SD

[Carlos Garcia]

What you fail to understand that is a slideshow (a single MPEG2 frame 'forzen' for xx amount of seconds) is part of the DVD specification.
I do understand this. What I don't understand is why my version of TMPGEnc DVD Author doesn't understand that a slideshow is also part of the DVD spec. It refuses to see the proper time of the slideshow that MuxMan creates for me.

[mpucoder]

I don't know why anyone thought encoders would not produce P and B pictures for a static image, these are very easy since there is no difference or motion to encode and they take very little space. However you do need an I picture twice a second.

The video extracted from a slideshow is one frame long, you have to tell the authoring application how long you want that one frame to be frozen. In many of the newer authoring programs that time can be set to the duration of an audio track. I too am not familiar with TMPGEnc DVD Author, perhaps if you demultiplexed the vob into an m2v the program would recognize it properly and allow stretching the playback time.

Why use TMPGEnc DVD Author at all? MuxMan can produce the entire DVD.

[Pudah]

Well, Pudah, the point is that it is a waste of resources not to use the slideshow capabilities allowed by the DVD-VIDEO standard...oh, I got the point, I was just playing around to see what would happen. But if Carlos' chosen authoring app doesn't support slideshows, and he isn't willing to switch to one that will, perhaps the space penalty is not a big deal.

[Sir Didymus]

...What I don't understand is why my version of TMPGEnc DVD Author doesn't understand that a slideshow is also part of the DVD spec....

Well...
It seems to me too, quite strange that the authoring application is not supporting slideshows; in this case the conclusion pointed out by mpucoder is absolutely logic: if TMPGEnc DVD Author does not allow you to create slideshows why not to use a more complete authoring package for your purposes ?

If I can make a little advertisement, go with MuxMan, since it seems you are already familiar with it - this seems the most natural suggestion - or (and ? :) ) give a try to DVD Planner (by Zeul) that is really a very very nice and excellent authoring application...

[Carlos Garcia]

oh, I got the point, I was just playing around to see what would happen. But if Carlos' chosen authoring app doesn't support slideshows, and he isn't willing to switch to one that will, perhaps the space penalty is not a big deal.

Well, if it was a simple project, then by all means I'd switch to a new authoring program. However, this project is one I've been working on for over 4 yrs, adding files as I've created them. So far I've authored 80 chapters spread through 18 pages. The entire project will fit onto a dual-layered DVD. It would probably take me an eternity to create this project, if I were to start from scratch, regardless of whatever new authoring program I were to switch to (not to mention all the time it would take to learn to use a new program). It's funny that in all the time I've put into this project, I never realized TMPGEnc DVD Author could not properly handle slideshow DVD files. Then again, up until now, I never had a need for this sort of file in the project. I've checked for any upgrades to the program, that might correct this problem, but the version I have seems to be the last version they created before moving on to version 2.0. The moral to this story? Don't let a project last so long that the program you used for it becomes outdated, and you wind up needing things that the program didn't offer in the first place...Unless I can find an alternate solution, I guess I may just omit the slideshow from the project. Funny how something that I thought could be so simple, turned out to be next to impossible on this project. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

[BigCondor]

Maybe you can go on your project with the slide show provided by HC and replace with the one created by Muxman with VobBlanker after the DVD is done.

[Carlos Garcia]

Maybe you can go on your project with the slide show provided by HC and replace with the one created by Muxman with VobBlanker after the DVD is done.
BigCondor, how can I do this exactly? I'm willing to try, because it seems a shame something so small as this slideshow, can't be added to my project. Thank you for your help.