AGK, How can I specify the AR as something other than 4:3/16:9?

[Codesmith]

I use AutoGK 2.27

I am re-encoding a movie with a 2.35 AR, but AGK detects it as 4:3.

Using a .aspect file to force it to 16:9 isn't good enough (1.77 vs 2.35).

I tried changing the contents of .aspect to 2.35:1 or 2.35 which results in an error.

47:20 results in a AR of 4?!!
12:5 also results in a AR of 4?!!

Is there any way to get this movie encoded at the proper AR?

[CWR03]

As you'll note, your choices under Hidden Options are 4:3, 16:9 and Original. I'd suggest you use Gordian Knot and load a sample of the video and use the Resolution tab to create a 16:9 layout with some of the black borders still intact that maintains the proper 2.35:1 frame within it. You can then transfer the settings used in cropping to AutoGK and set 16:9. I've tried it, and it works.

Did you try letting AutoGK do everything for you? It usually outputs a file in the correct AR on its own.

Edit: just noticed you said you're "re-encoding" a movie - does this mean you're not working from a DVD source? If not, my suggestion will not work for you.

[Codesmith]

I just meant that I am taking content from the original DVD and converting it to DivX.

So there is just no way to force aspect ratios other than 4:3 and 16:9 with just AutoGK?

I can't somehow edit some file while AGK is running to change the settings?

[CWR03]

So there is just no way to force aspect ratios other than 4:3 and 16:9 with just AutoGK?

I can't somehow edit some file while AGK is running to change the settings?
No, and no. Use the full Gordian Knot for that.

[Codesmith]

Guess its time to give regular GK a try.

[manono]

So there is just no way to force aspect ratios other than 4:3 and 16:9 with just AutoGK?

There are only 2 DARs, 4:3 and 16:9. It looks to me that you have a widescreen 4:3 DVD. Nothing unusual about that and AutoGK can handle it with one hand tied behind its back, so to speak. Did you give AutoGK a chance to do it (without you fooling around in the Hidden Options)?

[Codesmith]

I definitely let AutoGK 2.27 do its thing. I have successfully encoded over 500 movies and at most maybe a dozen time AutoGK couldn't get the job done properly.

Anyway as I said

It detects the content as 4:3 and outputs a 4:3 divx file. Forcing it to 16:9 results in a 16:9 divx file. Neither is acceptable as the movie has an AR of 2.35.

I am reluctant to learn Gordian Knot just to handle these rare exceptional cases.

Right now I am using Dr Divx which from the preview appears to be encoding the movie with the proper AR.

[manono]

It detects the content as 4:3 and outputs a 4:3 divx file

You're mixing apples and oranges, DAR and the movie AR. Are you saying it is encoding a 2.35:1 movie as 1.33:1? If so, how is it doing it, with the black bars on top and bottom, or with no black bars and everything stretched, so that people seem very tall and thin?

The DVD can easily be both 4:3 and 2.35:1, something you don't seem to have learned in your over 500 movies.

Do you have a small sample of a vob you can upload, or at least a pic of the unresized video, perhaps a cap from DGIndex? How about a log from your encode of it that you say AutoGK messed up?

[Codesmith]

I do understand that DVD are always encoded with a DAR of 4:3 or 16:9 and that the output is then manipulated (or borders added to the source) to get the correct aspect ratio.

I know that AutoGK normally automatically crops borders and or stretches the image to get as close as possible to the movies intended AR.

I know that normally a value of other than 4:3 or 16:9 makes no sense, but AutoGK is not working normally.

The problem is that AutoGK is messing up and simply setting the output AR to the DAR without any adjustment. Its messing and the log file shows that the output AR is always being set as equal to the source DAR.

If left alone, AutoGK is detecting a DAR of 4:3 and outputting a DivX with AR of 1.33 consisting of the entire image only stretched.

If I force it to 16:9 it outputs 16:9. Its still unacceptably stretched, but not as bad as before.

There are no black borders and no parts of the movie are being cropped.

The log files show that AGK for this movie is always setting the output resolution equal to the sources DAR.

I believe that if I could only specify the source as having a 47:20 DAR the output would then have the correct AR.

But settings 47:20 in the .aspect file yields an AR of 4 for some odd reason. 2.35 yields an error.
---

FYI Dr DivX 2.0.1.b2 outputs a .divx file with an AR of 2.316 no problem from the same DVD.

I had other problems with Dr DivX which I won't go into here so I guess I will have to read the GK .35 Tutorial.

[CWR03]

You don't need to learn Gordian Knot in its entirety in order to use the shortcut I mentioned, although if you do you'll only be impressed by the results, which are usually far superior to AutoGK. As I said, you'll need to tune the cropping manually and leave some black borders so you'll end up with a 16:9 output with a 2.35:1 frame inside it. Gordian Knot has an active preview so you can see your cropping and resizing changes as you make them, whereas AutoGK requires that you run a preview to see what your changes have done. You'd only need to crop and resize in Gordian Knot to make it look right, then you can transfer the numbers directly to AutoGK and force 16:9.

[manono]

If left alone, AutoGK is detecting a DAR of 4:3 and outputting a DivX with AR of 1.33 consisting of the entire image only stretched.

OK, that's something I can work with. There are a couple of ways that can happen, or seem to have happened, without AutoGK being at fault. One possible reason is a player problem. If you open the resulting AVI in VDubMod, have a look at the pic, and then go File->File Information, does it look stretched in VDubMod as well? And is the resolution some kind of a 4:3 ratio (512x384, 576x432, etc)?

The second possible reason is a setting in the Hidden Options that shouldn't be turned on. For that we'll need the log.

Other than that, this is the first time I've heard of something like this happening, and you may yet have to do it in GKnot (or StaxRip, or FairUse, or AVINet), if you don't find Dr. DivX entirely satisfactory. And if you're still really using ver. 2.27, you might consider upgrading and trying again.

[CWR03]

manono, I've had it happen a few times myself. That's how I came up with the much easier solution of using Gordian Knot's resize and preview rather than many, many trial-and-error previews with AutoGK.

[manono]

Oh, you know about this already? And the version has nothing to do with it? It just happens randomly every once in awhile? Sounds like a job for len0x.

Turning a 2.35:1 movie into 1.78:1 with added black bars doesn't really sound to me like a satisfactory workaround, though.

Does it happen whether you load IFOs or VOBs? Maybe if he did one, he should try the other (no subs with just vobs, though). Maybe I should have left well enough alone. Thanks for the info, CWR03.

[Codesmith]

Thanks for everyone's help.

I found a quick solution, I just processed it with DVDShrink (movie only with no compression), then ran AutoGK 2.27.

This rewrote whatever was weird/erroneous in the source that caused problems with AGK.

I still would like to learn regular GK at some point, but AGK works so well that its not very high on my priority list.

PS Dr Divx 2.0 was disappointing.

[CWR03]

Gordian Knot seems overwhelming at first, but it's really not too difficult. Here's a brief guide:

1. Rip the disk in .IFO mode with DVD Decrypter.
2. Run the .VOB through DGIndex (Click Video > Force Film for movies, then click File > Save Project and name the file.)
3. Open the .D2V in Gordian Knot, and on the Bitrate tab, select the file size, codec, container (defaults are XviD and AVI). Under Audio either select the audio file if keeping AC3 or select the desired MP3 bitrate. Repeat for audio 2 if needed.
4. Click the Resolution tab and resize the video to your preference. The Input Pixel Aspect Ratio needs to be correct (16:9 or 4:3), and from there the video itself will usually keep the proper AR while cropping and resizing. You may want to set the H-Modul to 16.
5. One time setting: click the Options tab, click the XviD first pass button and set the profile to unrestricted and click Ok. Repeat for second pass.
6. Set end credits start point if desired (reduces quality of the encode from that point until the end) and click Save and Encode. For movies, the default settings in the next window are good, just click the next Save and Encode button.
7. Select audio: click Select and choose the main audio file. If you selected the AC3 from the Bitrate tab in step 3, select the same file and select Just Mux. If you selected a bitrate, select the main audio file and change the birate to match what you selected in step 3. Repeat for audio 2 if needed.
8. Click the XviD tab and click Add Job to Encoding Queue. Click Start Encoding in Gordian Knot if needed.

[Elmo Oxygen]

What about if AutoGK is taking a 16X9 dvd that is 2.35 and cropping it to 2.23 on its own? How do you overcome it changing its mind on the specific ratio it chooses?

[manono]

Hello and welcome to the forum-

What about if AutoGK is taking a 16X9 dvd that is 2.35 and cropping it to 2.23 on its own?

First I would ask how you knew it was 2.35:1. Did you crop and resize it yourself (like in GKnot), to determine that? So-called 2.35:1 movies can be all over the place. Second, given the necessary resizing restrictions (Mod16), a film often won't be cropped to its full dimensions, but will have some small part of the video cropped (better than leaving behind some black) to maintain the AR. And the smaller the resolution, the farther away from the true AR it might be.

How do you overcome it changing its mind on the specific ratio it chooses?

In the hidden options you can specify how much to crop, but you may wind up with a significant AR Error. As far as specifying the height, no. And if you're specifying the width (need a log to check), you might try a slightly different width to see if it's closer to your desired ratio.

Do you have any before and after pics you'd care to post?

[Elmo Oxygen]

Hello and welcome to the forum-

What about if AutoGK is taking a 16X9 dvd that is 2.35 and cropping it to 2.23 on its own?

First I would ask how you knew it was 2.35:1. Did you crop and resize it yourself (like in GKnot), to determine that? So-called 2.35:1 movies can be all over the place. Second, given the necessary resizing restrictions (Mod16), a film often won't be cropped to its full dimensions, but will have some small part of the video cropped (better than leaving behind some black) to maintain the AR. And the smaller the resolution, the farther away from the true AR it might be.


The reason I knew California Split was a 2.35 film is that I had seen it theatrically and on DVD and the divx I made looked a bit cropped. On top of that, AutoGK decided to resize it right before the second pass.


In the hidden options you can specify how much to crop, but you may wind up with a significant AR Error. As far as specifying the height, no. And if you're specifying the width (need a log to check), you might try a slightly different width to see if it's closer to your desired ratio.

I usually specify the width at 640, but recently I've been leaving it on auto, and occasionally 2.35 films are being cropped to 2.25, 2.27, and other simialr ratios. This was the first time it really looked off to me.

When I change 4X3 widescreen films to 16X9, I use the auto crop and I continously check the preview until I am satisfied (though I only crop on the top and bottom, never the sides), but I didn't think I would need to do this when AutoGK read the file as 16X9, as it did in this case.


Do you have any before and after pics you'd care to post?



DVD image

http://ww1.pureupload.com/public/35098/DVD_VIDEO-1.jpg



Divx image

http://ww1.pureupload.com/public/35101/VTS_01_1.cd1.avi_000455788.jpg



DVD image

http://ww1.pureupload.com/public/35099/DVD_VIDEO-2.jpg



Divx image

http://ww1.pureupload.com/public/35100/VTS_01_1.cd1.avi_001863611.jpg

[manono]

Thanks for the pics. It makes things much more clear. When I opened the Pic of the original in GKnot (using ImageSource), went to the Resolution Tab and set it for 1:1 with a 640 width, I got something fairly similar to your result, 640x288 with heavy left/right cropping (although not quite as heavy as your result, but then I didn't have a 720x480 pic with which to work, either). The only way around it that I could figure was to set the width to 672 and I got 672x288 with no cropping at all. Here's the script I used if you'd like to try it yourself:

ImageSource("C:\Path\To\NameOfPic.jpg")#adjust for your paths and names

Stick that line into an AviSynth script file (a .txt file renamed to .avs) named maybe Pic.avs.

That will open in GKnot, and in the Resolution Tab, set it for 1:1 (not 4:3 or 16:9), set your width to 640, and crop away the top and bottom black. Then, keeping an eye on the Aspect Error, start cropping away the right and left sides until you get it down to near 0 (it'll go up before coming back down).

Like I said, 672x288 works quite well. Going down in resolution, I didn't find a good one until I got to 592x256. One of the problems with that DVD is that it's not 2.35:1 at all, but about 2.33:1. If it really were 2.35:1, there'd be no problem. I don't know if you can force 640x272 in AutoGK by cropping only the top and bottom in the Hidden Options, but I don't think so. After all, a 1+% Aspect Error isn't all that bad. If you really want it at 640x272 with no left/right crop, you might have to do it manually, or using GKnot. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

[Elmo Oxygen]

I redid it, this time specifying a 672 width in AutoGK and it came out much better. What would be the best specification for a 1.85 film?


http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9467/californiasplitcd1avi00dh4.jpg

[manono]

Well, that's the thing. You can't make any hard and fast rules about these things. Because your California Split was just slightly less wide than 2.35:1, choosing a 640 width made it necessary to crop about the most possible under the rules AutoGK follows. Similar things could happen with 1.85:1 movies. Is 640x352, 656x352, or maybe 624x336 the best choice, giving you the least amount of active video being cropped? I think it depends on the DVD and whether it's really 1.85:1 or only somewhere in the vicinity of 1.85:1.

Before making your choice, though, you could do what I did and have a look at the DVD in GKnot, do some cropping and resizing in the Resolution Tab, until you find a combination that works for that particular DVD.

And then you have to wrestle with the problem of choosing a fixed width, without yet knowing how well the DVD compresses, and whether or not you're allowing enough size for it for good quality. If you're particular about having as little active video as possible being cropped from the sides, there are no easy answers for the dilemma.

You're pretty good at taking pics of the exact frame. :)