NTSC -> PAL Clarification.

[#2]

I'm trying to find a 'lossless' way to convert a NTSC DVD stream to PAL. So far I've read http://www.ntsc2pal.hostrocket.com/FramesetPOS2.htm and the Avisynth thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=114054&highlight=ntsc+pal but I'm really having trouble getting to grips with how to do this.

So my questions are;

- Is it at all possible to convert from 29.97fps NTSC -> PAL with out re-encoding?

-Are either of the above methods worth pursuing or would I just be better to use Twixtor in Adobe After Effects?

Thanks in advance.

[foxyshadis]

Neither of those methods come anywhere near "lossless", although NTSCtools will get you the better result. As an alternative to twixtor, you can check out this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=113256

However, if your NTSC is pure soft pulldown film, you can run dgpulldown on it to convert it to 25fps without changing the duration or encoding anything.

If it's not pure film you're stuck with re-encoding. You might be able to get something working via http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=110256 but I'm not sure.

[Mug Funky]

twixtor is good, but you'd be at the mercy of AE's deinterlacing, wouldn't you? (unless you stuck in reelsmart's deinterlacer before twixtor in the chain).

autoPAL is still in development, but definitely usable (the current version on my computer has some artefact protection thanks to Didee and Tritical's "vinverse" plugin), that aside you'll probably get a better conversion with autopal if there's film and video combined.

if your source is just film, better to use telecide+decimate, resize to 576 lines and use DGpulldown to bump it up to 25fps from 23.976.

[#2]

Wow! Thanks guys. Please bear with me I'm back to school with Avisynth scripts. I should realy get comfortable with them.

if your NTSC is pure soft pulldown film, you can run dgpulldown on it to convert it to 25fps without changing the duration or encoding anything.

It is pure 29.97fps interlaced film. I demuxed the video and ran a custom 29.97 -> 25 rate change with Dgpulldown and it told me that ratio can't be less than 1. I see what you mean by telecide+decimate now.

-Am I best to just;
use the Reelsmart FieldsKit deinterlacer or...
TDeint(mode=1)
lanczosresize(720,576) the m2v -> Twixtor?.

-Do I need to worry about colour conversion?

[Guest]

It is pure 29.97fps interlaced film. I demuxed the video and ran a custom 29.97 -> 25 rate change with Dgpulldown and it told me that ratio can't be less than 1. I see what you mean by telecide+decimate now. You're seeing wrong. :) Use the 23.976 -> 25 conversion. DGPulldown will wipe out the original pulldown (restores 23.976fps) and then replace it with the correct pulldown to generate 25fps. This will work if the pulldown is done with RFF flags (soft). If the pulldown is done via real field duplication (hard), then you need IVTC [e.g., telecide() plus decimate()].

[#2]

You're seeing wrong. :) Use the 23.976 -> 25 conversion.

Thanks Neuron2. I tried that. When I preview the result in dgindex it says 4:3, 25fps, video 84%, Progressive. The original says 4:3, 29.97fps, NTSC, Interlaced.

-Dose this mean it the source is hard field duplicated?


Now I'm trying;
Demux Audio
AVS for resize, deinterlace
Direct stream copy in Vdub.
Demux m2v from avi.
Dgpulldown
Remux audio

This my AVS# PLUGINS
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDECODE.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\TDEINT.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\\WARPSHARP.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\REMOVEGRAIN.DLL")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Script\FIELDORDER.AVS")
#
# VIDEO SOURCE
Video=Mpeg2Source("K:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.demuxed.d2v", idct=2 )
#
# DEINTERLACE Using TDEINT
MyParity=FieldOrder(Video,0)
Video=TDeint(Video,order=MyParity,type=3,sharp=false)
#
# CROPPING
Video=Crop(Video,8,0, -2, -0, align=true)
#
# RESIZING
Video=LanczosResize(Video,720,576)
#
# REMOVEGRAIN FILTER
Video=RemoveGrain(Video, mode=2)
#
# SHARP FILTER (Light)
Video=Xsharpen(Video,40,30)
#
# LIMIT Chroma & Luma Value
Video=Limiter(Video)
#
# FINISH
Return(Video)


This is the FIELDORDER.AVSfunction FieldOrder(clip c, int "mode")
{
mode = Default(mode, 0)

fo = (mode==0) ? (GetParity(c) ? 1:0) :
\ (mode==1) ? (GetParity(c) ? "TOP":"BOTTOM") :
\ Assert(false, "GetFieldOrder : invalid result (mode = 0 or 1)")

return fo
}

Im getting about 9fps in Vdub as we speek.

For AR, in this tread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=117779&highlight=ntsc+pal, Blue_MiSfit says All I really need to do is resize to 720x576, and set 16x9 in my MPEG-2 encoder right?

For Deinterlaceing, scharfis_brain says the best (yeah I know the roules ;) quality for pure interlaced sources can be achieed with didee's newest creation: mcbob(). It enhances the resolution compared to traditional deinterlacers a lot and also reduces interlace flicker noticably!
Of course it will take ages to process you video.
But rest assured you may top the quality of a Snell & Wilcox conversion with this combination

-Am I on the right track?
-How do I get my AR right with out re-encodeing?
-How does scharfis_brain's script compare with... autopal() = ~26fps (speed varies between modes of course)

OK direct stream copy in Vdub gave me an uncompresed avi and the tdeint settings gave me very bad artifacts. Help some one. :|

[Guest]

Thanks Neuron2. I tried that. When I preview the result in dgindex it says 4:3, 25fps, video 84%, Progressive. The original says 4:3, 29.97fps, NTSC, Interlaced. If the original is not 95-100% film as shown by DGIndex, then you cannot use the DGPulldown technique.

Does this mean it the source is hard field duplicated? It depends upon what the film percentage reported for the original is. If it is 95-100
percent film, then it can be treated as soft telecined. Hard telecined video and pure interlaced video both show as 0% film. The only way to distinguish them is to examine the fields (or use an analyzer such Megui).

Demux m2v from avi. That makes no sense.

Am I on the right track? You need to determine unambiguously the nature of your source material. Is it soft telecined, hard telecined, pure interlaced, or hybrid?

Help some one. Post a link to an unprocessed source clip that is representative of your video.

[#2]

Ok here goes. If the original is not 95-100% film as shown by DGIndex It says NTSC and thats all?? I think that means it is pure interlaced right?

Here is a link to a sample http://www.sendspace.com/file/wrankz

[Guest]

Ok here goes. It says NTSC and thats all?? I think that means it is pure interlaced right?

Here is a link to a sample http://www.sendspace.com/file/wrankz Look at the bottom of the D2V file for the film/video percentage.

Maybe I'll add it to the Info dialog as well.

I can't make your link work. Did you test it?

[#2]

Hey thanks for your help here neuron2. It says 100.00% VIDEO


If you still want to have a look at that file then scroll down and look for a small "Download link: test.vob"

[manono]

Hi-

It says NTSC and thats all?? I think that means it is pure interlaced right?

No, that isn't what it means. That is, however, what it is in this case. No DGPulldown for you.