Which settings for quality encode (SD not HD, about Q3-Q4) for Home Player

[Dams]

Hi all,

I was wondering what will be the best setting and the thing not to be made for encoding for an Home Player DVD ?

The target size is about Q3-Q4, so about 1100MB,1200MB roughly.
The resolution is about 704*384 or 720*400 maximum.
I won't make anamorphic encode as my Home Player doesn't support PAR signaling.

- What Bits/(Pixel*Frame) should I reach ? (1.8 ?)

- What profile should I use ? (AS @ L5 ? )

- What quantization type ? (H263 or MPEG)

- Is an high VHQ is important ?

- What type of resize ? (I usually use LanczosResize)

- Do I have to not use BF ? (actualy, I always encode without BF)

Thanks all for your help.

[Sharktooth]

:readrule: expecially the number 12:
12) How NOT to post on this forum:
...
Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively. Each and everyone has their own view about what's best in a certain area. The best is what works best for you!
However BPF is not accurate at all. For maximum standalone players compatibility the profile should be DXN Home Teather and the quantization should be h.263 (things you would have found if you used the forum search function).
About the codec settings, :readguid:

In short you broke a lot of the forum rules... but you're lucky im not a mod (yeah... today im in a really bad mood...)

[Dams]

@Sharktooth : sorry daddy, I rewrote my subject, I hope you like it ;) (I don't read the rules, I'm a bad guy :D )

And about codec settings, I don't want to read guide as I already read it, I encode about 3-4 years, but I decided to change my encode and to "push" the target size from 700MB to 1100-1200MB, so I need some advices to achieve best quality, from people who used to encode in this interval of size

[foxyshadis]

- What quantization type ? (H263 or MPEG)
MPEG-custom. Don't use the builtins unless you must. There's a number of matrices made for low, mid, and high quality available (for one set, see sharktooth's sig). That's the #1 thing you can do for quality in xvid, after the basic options are chosen.

Why don't you use b-frames? They can increase the quality of your video, and seek speed, pretty noticeably.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Don't a lot of standalones still have problems with CQMs foxyshadis?

I could be mistaken.

Definitely use B-frames - Best to limit yourself to one if you're not sure exactly what features your player supports.

In fact, lets not go any further until you tell us which model it is. Maybe you can do some research yourself and find out what chipset your player uses. This will allow us to tell you exactly what and what not to use

~MiSfit

[Dams]

@Blue_MiSfit : I use the home dvd player Silvercrest 6515 with chipset Zoran 888

[BigDid]

Don't a lot of standalones still have problems with CQMs ...
Yes and No,

Hope you don't mind I quote your post instead of the original poster :)

Yes for SAP with older chipset like the ESS (DVP 642), No for recent chipsets like the MTK 1389 family; all accepts some custom CQM. And that really can make the difference on a HD screen.

Concerning the very recent chipsets like the Zoran I don't have enough feedback to be affirmative but I believe (reading SMD comments) it can do as well or better than the MTK 1389.

To be more concrete, the problems with SAP may arise with
- GMC
- QPEL
- More than 1 consecutive B-frame
- Too high bitrate spikes
- custom CQM
- Others? ...

Best to avoid the AS @ L5 profile (spikes), prefer the home theater profile as a start.
Celtic-Druid made a special SAP Xvid-build that has more profiles like: the MTK (4500) and MTK 6000 (for near instant bitrate up to 6000). Your SAP may or may not appreciate the 6000kbp/s :D

I often make encodes (AGK with AGKPAL) around 1/4 DVD, 640*xxx (LAnczos) for 16/9, sound ac3 320-5+1ch or 192-2ch, CQM being the Sharktooth EQMV2 (included in AGK) or the Jawor 1cd for less compressible sources , Length 90 to 120mn, bitrate 1300 to 1000.

Usual filter chain turns around: Levels+ tweak+ DCTFun/FrFun+ Removegrain/DegrainMedian+ LimitedSharpenFaster.

For manual encodes you may want to try the Eqm v3-LR or v3-HR. There is a modded version of the v3-Hr by Heini that can gives very good results, make a search for it in the Sharktooth Asp-CQM thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83125

Did

Edit: Warning!
Not all CQM are usable for playing in SAP, please refer to the beginning of the above quoted Asp-CQM thread for specifics.
HR or above HR (6of9, UHR, EHR) may/will not play on SAP cause they are bitrate hungry, test first!

[Dams]

Thanks a lot @BigDid for advice on matrix and profile !

[BigDid]

Thanks a lot @BigDid for advice on matrix and profile !
You are welcome.

I have edited my posts concerning the use of different CQM, please read the warning :o

Did

[Dams]

@BigDid : do you think BF are good also ?
I was thinking that they were the frame which have less quality in front of P frame.

[Didée]

do you think BF are good also ?
I was thinking that they were the frame which have less quality in front of P frame.

Well, we really don't need to explain this to you, since
about codec settings, I don't want to read guide as I already read it, I encode about 3-4 years,
you are such an old stager and know exactly what you're doing. :)


But, for the readers not having the same firm grasp of codec's features like you do:

Bframes are meant to have slightly lower quality. But the slightly lower quality comes along with a weightily reduction in bitrate (to give an idea, let's say Bframes have 5-10% lower quality, but are 60% smaller in size).
Therefore, the slightly lower quality of Bframes frees up many bits, which are redistributed all around. The redistributed bits improve the overall quality again. And this gain of quality overweights the lower Q of Bframes by far, so overall quality improves.

:)

[Dams]

Well, we really don't need to explain this to you, since

you are such an old stager and know exactly what you're doing. :)


But, for the readers not having the same firm grasp of codec's features like you do:

Bframes are meant to have slightly lower quality. But the slightly lower quality comes along with a weightily reduction in bitrate (to give an idea, let's say Bframes have 5-10% lower quality, but are 60% smaller in size).
Therefore, the slightly lower quality of Bframes frees up many bits, which are redistributed all around. The redistributed bits improve the overall quality again. And this gain of quality overweights the lower Q of Bframes by far, so overall quality improves.

:)

@Didée : thxs for ur answer, i was thinking a little about that , but I wasn't sure! :goodpost:

[Dams]

To be quick : what is your favorite settings for BF ?

[foxyshadis]

The higher the average quant (ie, lower quality), the lower ratio should be, and you can slowly raise offset to compensate. (Didée has his "golden ratio" :p of 1.66/0, good for high quality, but if you were to try that on a q10 encode it would have horrible pulsing blocking.)

If you use two-pass, consider setting the maximum quants, so that you don't get too-high quant spikes (and the nasty looking b-frames that go with them), scharfis' guide is a good start. For constant quant it won't be an issue.

[Didée]

few notes thrown in:

"golden ratio" is 1.618.../1, not 1.66, so 1.6/0 was the recommended Bframe setting. Pulsing it may at high quants, but in no way more than standard settings would do. :)
It tries to be a versatile setting ... if you know the encode's going to be hi-q, 1.0/1/max1 is always a good choice, as is 1.0/2/max2 for the average encoding. (max1 is more safe for SPs, in case of doubt. )

foxy, do you have any link to "scharfis' guide"? I'm curious, too, about scharfis' opinions about encoding. :)

[Dams]

Yeah, me too I'd like to see scharfis' guide .. ;)

[foxyshadis]

Of course, his presets thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=107897), which both of you posted in. =p (I've recommended it be stickied, since it's been falling off the forum, but....)

And yeah, at higher quants I usually use 1.1/2 or 1.2/1, keeps them more reasonable. I don't usually make stuff in that range anymore, though, fortunately.

[Didée]

scharfis' ~ scharfis_brain != Teegedeck ;)

[scharfis_brain]

OT!

I see that there is some help needed in spelling my name correctly.

My normal Nickname usually is 'Scharfi'.
'Scharfis Brain' is the german equivalent to 'scharfi's brain' in english. Which means something like 'the Brain of Scharfi'.

So either call me Scharfi or scharfis_brain.
But please don't use scharfis or scharfis'!

Usage examples: :D

1a) mvbob() is a deinterlacer distributed by Scharfi.
1b) mvbob() is a deinterlacer distributed by scharfis_brain.

2a) Scharfi's deinterlacer is called mvbob().
2b) scharfis_brain's deinterlacer is called mvbob().

PS: I've never written an encoding guide.

[Dams]

L O L :helpful:

[foxyshadis]

Oops, how could I forget it was Teegedeck's thread. I must have been so confused yesterday. ;_;

Thanks for the grammar correction on your nick, I was never quite sure whether the s was part of the name or not. ;)

[Dams]

Well , I was encoding an anime these days, and I was thinking what will be the best setting for BF as 2/1.0/1.0 or 1/1.6/0

Some test (1000-1500 frames) tells me that second setting was a little better (SSIM and visual test) but I don't encode all movie at this time, all remains to be done ..

what is your felling about that ?

Ps : i follow the Xvid Presets (anime: cartoon mode(!), a mild b-frame setting like ratio 1.0, offset=1, ME6, VHQ=1, VHQ for b-frames, chroma ME, H.263, 1st pass @q=2, quantizer-restrictions min. 2,2,3, max. 6,6,10)

Bitrate +/- 1150 kbps , lanczosresize, 704*384