Use VobBlanker and PgcEdit or Just PgcEdit?

[TomBrooklyn]

1. I read some posts from some people that said they like to use VobBlanker and then PgcEdit to "clean the disk up" or something. I think they're talking about removing links and/or buttons to places they've blanked out. So I started reading the PgcEdit Help Files and it says PgcEdit can Blank things. So would it be good to just use PgcEdit instead of using VobBlanker and then PgcEdit?

2. Also, I just VobBlanked a rip and I went to PgcEdit to "clean it up" or whatever. I'm not really sure what I was going to do to it there, but since some people do something I figured I'd try to figure out what that is. It looks to me like PgcEdit is designed to open DVDs, not rips. Or should I just load the output VIDEO_TS from VobBlanker. (Actually, I used MenuShrink after VobBlanker, so should I just load the MenuShrinked Vobbed VIDEO_TS into PgcEdit?

3. I loaded the MenuShrinked Vobbed folder into PgcEdit and it seemed to load up OK so I guess that's it. The first thing I got was a popup window that said: "Warning: There are 2 discrepancies in some VMGM/VTSI_MAT tables. Do you want to run the "Fix number of streams" macro to fix them? I selected yes. Does that sound OK? What the heck is that warning talking about, anyway? I don't even understand what it means.

4. After I "yessed" on that, I got another popup that said: There are 1 audio streams defined for the Menu domain in the VTSI_MAT table of the VTST 2. 0 audio streams are really used by the PGCs. Fix the number of audio streams in VTSI_MAT to 0? I selected "Yes." Sound OK. Is this what PgcEdit does...is this the fixing thing I read about some people using? After "Yes", got another audio stream warning for the Menu domain. Clicked "Yes" again.

5. Now I got a popup window entitled "Find BOVs (Buttons Over Video in Title domains). A couple of boxes were checked, but after I typed this and looked again the checks were gone. I clicked "Scan", nothing happened. So I clicked "Select All" and then "Scan" and something happened. Then I clicked "Close." I don't know what I just did. Did I do the right thing? I got no more popup windows. Am I finished? I guess I'll just save this and send it to DVD Rebuilder Pro. Interestingly, I loaded the file up in DVDShrink and everything seems OK.

PS: Movie is "The Greatest Game Ever Played" USA region.

[blutach]

Save and send to DVD Rebuilder (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/).

Regards

[TomBrooklyn]

Well, that was pretty painless. Unfortunately, Rebuilder Encoding stopped after just 2 steps -Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1. It was stalled there with 0% Overall Progress for over 30 minutes, so I guess there is some glitch in there.

I Re-Vobbed it but didn't blank out a couple of small 8 to 13MB sections that do the little musical Disney ads etc., did Menu Shrink and PgcEdit and it's looking good this time.

I'm still curious about the idea of using PgcEdit to do the blanking and fixing instead of VobBlanker followed by PgcEdit.

[blutach]

PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html) can blank whole titlesets very quickly (as can VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm) and DVDRB)

Quite frankly, since you have DVDRB Pro, it can do all the blanking you need (use the beta previewer). You can use PgcEdit for command editing, if you are proficient in that.

Regards

[r0lZ]

As blu said, PgcEdit is powerful and fast to blank whole titlesets (all titles in the same set of VOBs at once).
It is also possible to blank specific PGCs or cells with PgcEdit, but you will not regain the disc space, unless you process the DVD with FixVTS or VobBlanker after having blanked the unnecessary stuff with PgcEdit. In this case, it is therefore usually more efficient to use VobBlanker directly.

Don't be afraid by the warnings when you load a DVD in PgcEdit. It tries to fix some little (and usually harmless) discrepancies in your original DVD. If you don't know what to do, simply accept the default.

The Find BOVs function is necessary ONLY when there are menu buttons in the Title domains. Since scanning the VOBs for BOVs is a relatively long operation and there are often no BOVs in the DVD, this step is optional. PgcEdit pre-selects the VOBs to scan for you. Since there are most probably no BOVs in a titleset without subpics, those titlesets are not selected by default.
Of course, when the scanning have been done, it is not necessary to rescan again, and therefore if you launch that function again, all checkboxes will probably be unticked.
And, of course, it is not necessary to scan the DVD if you reload it and there were no BOVs found during the first scan (unless, of course, you have added some BOVs manually with the menu editor.)
BTW, BOV means "Button Over Video". A good example of BOVs is the "white rabbit" in Matrix.

[Dr.Khron]

Ah good question, been wondering that myself.

I recently started learning PGCEdit, so I could edit commands and menu structures... its very complicated, but rewarding. Once you get the hang of the tracing and de-bugging commands, it all makes a lot of sense.

I was starting to wonder wether I should stop using VobBlanker alltogether, but now I see why you should use both. When you are going to re-encode to a SL DVD, blanking out the unrelated trailers often buys you A LOT of space.

Plus, I like the GUI for VobBlanker, its clean, and its easy to figure out how it works (since it has far fewer functions then PGCEdit). However, you really can't beat PGCEdit for figuring out how a DVD is structured.

[TomBrooklyn]

BTW, BOV means "Button Over Video". A good example of BOVs is the "white rabbit" in Matrix.

Hi r0IZ,
Thanks for that explanation of PgcEdit and VobBlanker.

As far as the BOVs, I have an original copy The Matrix I bought from Columbia House DVD Club, but I don't know what the White Rabbit BOV is. Is there some control in that movie I don't know about?

[r0lZ]

You're really strange Tom.
The white rabbit in Matrix is a bonus which uses BOVs. BOVs are Button over video. A good example of BOVs is the white rabbit bonuses. The white rabbit in Matrix is a bonus which uses BOVs. And so on... Should I repeat that over and over?
Just follow the white rabbit, and you will understand.

[dialysis1]

The white rabbit buttons when selected will pause the movie and take you to clips on how the scene you are about to watch was made and then return to the movie.

[Dr.Khron]

Button Over Video = an interactive element that is visible during playback of a video clip. This is used for a variety of things, including games.

The white rabbit is a special feature that you turn on. While watching the main movie, the white rabbit BOV appears at certain points, sort of like VH1's "Pop-Up Video". Clicking on the rabbit will bring you a mini-special feature that is relevant to the part of the movie you were just watching.

[TomBrooklyn]

Just follow the white rabbit, and you will understand.
Well I've never seen a white rabbit on that disk except on that glam-goth brunette's shoulder, and I've watched that movie at least six times. But whatever. I'll look around for it next time I watch it.

[TomBrooklyn]

...since you have DVDRB Pro, it can do all the blanking you need (use the beta previewer).
Ah, that sounds a lot easier. I could never get that Preview window to work. I looked at it closer and see that's because I always backup in 1-Click Mode and you can't see the Preview until you PREPARE the disk. I'm trying it now. Very cool. Thanks.

[dialysis1]

Well I've never seen a white rabbit on that disk except on that glam-goth brunette's shoulder, and I've watched that movie at least six times. But whatever. I'll look around for it next time I watch it.

In the menu, choose special features then The Dream World, then continue. You will see Follow The White Rabbit.

[TomBrooklyn]

I have not watched Matrix again yet, but in Moulin Rouge, I see a Green Fairy pop up occassionaly. I didn't know how to follow her though. What should I press on the remote?

[setarip_old]

The "Green Fairy" (voiced by Kiley Minogue) in "Moulin Rouge" is merely part of the actual movie (an hallucination), not a link to anything...

[TomBrooklyn]

Hi set,
I'm not referring to the scenes the Green Fairy appears in which is at the intro to the film and when the bohemians drink absenth--I've seen in my last several viewings of the movie a small monochromatic "green fairy" icon that appears in the lower left corner of the viewing screen at several points in the film. It didn't used to appear when I first started watching the film, and I suspect it appears now because I changed some setting, although I can't recall doing that.

[r0lZ]

Have you tried to press the OK button (the button that you use to activate a regular menu button)?

[Calimari]

First of all, this is my first post here. So, hi people, here I am :)

@TomBrooklyn
VobBlanker is a VOB editor. PgcEdit is an IFO editor. The VOB's contain the actual audo/video information, the IFO's are like the control centre of a DVD. So, which one to use is a matter of personal taste. If you wanna blank stuff to shrink the DVD but you don't wanna touch (or screw up :) ) the navigation, you could use VobBlanker. It'll correct all necessary stuff in the IFO's but doesn't give you much control over the DVD navigation. Strictly, PgcEdit isn't needed anymore in that case. However, when you wanna have more control over the navigation, and you wanna do more than blanking stuff, use PgcEdit. But keep in mind that PgcEdit doesn't edit the VOB's (at least not much). So to regain space, you would have to run VobBlanker (or FixVTS) after you're finished in PgcEdit. And, besides blanking stuff, PgcEdit gives you an extremely high control over the navigation. It even allows you to rebuild the navigation from scratch, depending on what you need.
IMO, the ideal solution is to use both programs.
So this is how I do it:
I start my editing in PgcEdit to edit the IFO's. Since every DVD navigation starts in the IFO's, I think it's logical to start the editing there, and not going backwards by starting in the VOB's and then doing the IFO's. Besides, VobBlanker also uses the IFO's to open a DVD.
When I'm finished with the IFO's, I run VobBlanker. This can be easily done from within PgcEdit. In the 'tools' section, I have VobBlanker set up so it can be called in PgcEdit. Using the argument "%p\VIDEO_TS.IFO", VobBlanker will automatically open the DVD you're working on in PgcEdit. So I let VobBlanker do its job, and then PgcEdit re-opens the DVD. Then, as a last step, I remap the audiostreams that I stripped out in VobBlanker.
Once all that is done, I use DVD-RB to shrink the DVD.

[r0lZ]

Hi Calimari! Welcome to Doom9! Nice to see you here.

:goodpost: :thanks:

[Calimari]

Hi Calimari! Welcome to Doom9! Nice to see you here.


Thank you rOLZ for the warm reception. I'm happy to see a few familiar faces already myself.

[D-Daddy]

I am really a newbie in terms of PgcEdit and VobBlanker but this thread addresses some of the questions I have. I typically use PgcEdit and VobBlanker to skip the junk and save space:

1. I use PgcEdit to force DVD to jump to Main Menu on insert.

2. I use PgcEdit to "kill" the buttons on the Main Menu for Previews and Bonus Features, etc. I leave only Play Movie and Chapters in order to save space. (Courtesy of a fantastic instructional video by Rippraff. I would never have figured it out on my own.)

3. I then make sure everything works as expected, I save the DVD and then open VobBlanker.

4. I use VobBlanker to blank out all of the video that is no longer needed because it can't be accessed from the Main Menu (previews, interviews, ads, etc.)

I blank out the video by memory -- that is, I look through each group of cells/titles (can't remember the name of the videos in the bottom half of the VobBlanker screen?) and when I see a preview or a bonus feature that I know won't be accessed, I mark it to be blanked.

Is there an easier process other than me looking through each video? Does VobBlanker "know" which titles are no longer needed?

Thank you to all the great leaders of this forum who tolerate my ignorant questions!

-Jeff

[blutach]

You could use Kill Playback in PgcEdit and when it asks you, answer yes to convert the PGC to a dummy.

After that, you can tidy up the now unreferenced material with VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm).

Regards

[r0lZ]

Note also that you can use Blank Out All VTS Titles (or Menus) in PgcEdit if all titles (or menus) of a VTS are unnecessary.
With this function, you can chose to replace the VOB files by a tiny cell (or remove completely the menu VOB) immediately.
Usually, I do that before calling VobBlanker, because it's a lot faster. Some times, it is even possible to remove all unnecessary stuff this way, and I don't need VobBlanker at all.

When only some PGCs in a domain need to be removed, I use blu's method. When the playback is killed and you have removed or blanked the cells, it is sufficient to process the domain through FixVTS or VobBlanker (without having to specify anything to blank) to remove the useless cells from the VOB files.

[laserfan]

...it is sufficient to process the domain through FixVTS or VobBlanker (without having to specify anything to blank) to remove the useless cells from the VOB files.Omigosh--it's that easy? :eek:

Are there any pros/cons of one over the other (if "process" is all you're going to do) FixVTS or VobBlanker?

[r0lZ]

Personally, in this case, I prefer FixVTS, as it can process in place, and is therefore very fast. (This is why it is integrated in PgcEdit's Tools menu.)
However, if I have something else to do with VobBlanker, such as cutting a cell, I do the cleanup with VB as well.
Anyway, the result should be identical in both cases.

[D-Daddy]

When the playback is killed and you have removed or blanked the cells, it is sufficient to process the domain through FixVTS or VobBlanker (without having to specify anything to blank) to remove the useless cells from the VOB files.


1. How does VobBlanker "know" which PGC's to blank without me marking them as "Blank"? Does VobBlanker recognize that they are unreferenced?

2. I didn't think that PgcEdit deleted any part of the VOB's and therefore doesn't save much disc space on its own. Am I wrong?

-Jeff

[r0lZ]

1. How does VobBlanker "know" which PGC's to blank without me marking them as "Blank"? Does VobBlanker recognize that they are unreferenced?Exactly. VobBlanker drops automatically any unreferenced cell when it process the domain.

2. I didn't think that PgcEdit deleted any part of the VOB's and therefore doesn't save much disc space on its own. Am I wrong?Yes and no.

When you Kill PGC Playback with PgcEdit, you have the option to blank or remove the cells.
If you answer no, only the VM commands are modified, so that the PGC is not played any more, but the cells are still referenced, and the VOB files are not modified at all. You cannot regain space with FixVTS or VB in this case (unless you blank them.)
If you answer yes in a menu domain, the references to the VOB cells are completely removed, and the PGC is converted to dummy.
If you answer yes in a title domain, a little black cell (10KB) is added at the end of the last VOB file of the domain, and the cells of the PGC are reassigned to that tiny cell. (It is illegal to have a title without cells, and therefore it is not possible to convert it to dummy.)
In both cases, the VOB cells are not referenced any more (unless they are reused in another PGC) and you can remove them easily from the VOB files with Fix or VB.

There is also another method to remove the cells directly with PgcEdit. When a whole domain can be suppressed completely, you can use "Domain -> Blank out All PGCs in Domain".
For example, if the whole VMGM menu contains only useless logos or FBI warnings, you can kill them all, and remove completely VIDEO_TS.VOB or replace it by a 10KB VOB file. Similarly, in a title domain, you can replace all VOBs by a single tiny cell. This operation is very fast, as the original files are moved to the backup folder, and the new VOB is created immediately.

[D-Daddy]

r0lZ,

Thanks for the extremely thorough answer. I'll keep it with me as I work through PgcEdit.

I have to ask you another couple of questions that are probably very basic, but I don't know where to look for answers! If anyone can point me to an FAQ that discusses the meaning of the various domains, I'll be glad to go there.

1. When you talk about the menu domain, are you referring to entries in the PGC window such as VTSM 1?

2. Does "title domain" refer to entries such as VTST 1?

3. Do the VMGM entries constitute another domain?

Thanks!

-Jeff

[blutach]

1 & 2 Yes

3 VMGM is another "menu domain" but belonging to VIDEO_TS and not VTS_XX.

Regards

[D-Daddy]

One last question on this issue:

It looks like the VMGM domain deals with menu navigation for the entire DVD. VTSM PGC's deal with menu navigation for the movie (or VTS) only.

Is that correct? Close?

[blutach]

Spot on. VMGM is the "Manager" of the DVD. VTSM is the menu domain of the VTS.

You might like to have a look on DVD-Replica (http://www.dvd-replica.com/DVD/index.php).

Regards

[2COOL]

Learning the acronyms makes it self-explanatory. ;)

VMGM: Video ManaGer Menu
VTSM: Video TitleSet Menu

[D-Daddy]

Thank you, everyone, for you generous and patient help. I don't know anyone in "real life" who deals with these type of video issues.

The contributors to Doom9 forums are my only teachers!

[jsoto]

VobBlanker has also the ability of replacing a PGC, very useful when you want to reencode a title or if you want to add a subpicture stream..
Note if the VTS containing the title to be replaced does not have more PGCs, the replacement can be also done in pgcEdit, and it is much more faster (unless you have the VTS in a different logical disk)

I usually reencode the extras I want to keep to Half-D1 (352x576) and replace them with VobBlanker.

jsoto