VC-1 WMV Playback on Xbox 360

[easy2Bcheesy]

Hi there,

As you may know, Microsoft made the brilliant move of allowing WMV playback of all flavours to run on Xbox 360. This includes VC-1.

I'm trying to get the best possible 720p/60 playback from VC-1 material on the Xbox 360 and I'm finding that with challenging material, playback is disappointing even when throwing 15mbps at the encode.

The same files look lovely on my Core 2 laptop, but I see far more artefacts and frame drops on the 360.

Does any one have any encoding tips for challenging material?

[CruNcher]

hmm maybe atis hardware acceleration (inside the XboX 360) has problems with your streams or maybe just buffer (try to play with buffer settings) problems, interessting indeed i myself have no Xbox 360 as im waiting for the PS3 to arrive first.
You should read this and the buffer sugestions for the VC-1 Standard and HD-DVD what you are aiming for on the Xbox 360 as it officialy supports it in the future http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=114928

[easy2Bcheesy]

I used Sagittaire's HD DVD profile for Microsoft Media Encoder Studio Edition Beta 1, taken from here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=893416&postcount=283) and adapted it simply to encode a 720p/59.94fps stream.

I get perhaps 0.5 seconds of playback on the Xbox 360 before the video completely freezes.

I have found that upping the buffer considerably (up to 3000ms) seems to sort out a lot of the freezing issues, and using a peak VBR encode and keeping the average to 12.5mbps with a peak of 20mbps produces very acceptable results. Now I will see about lowering the average bitrate and seeing how low I can go.

[zambelli]

As you may know, Microsoft made the brilliant move of allowing WMV playback of all flavours to run on Xbox 360. This includes VC-1.
You know WMV9 is VC-1, right? :)

I'm trying to get the best possible 720p/60 playback from VC-1 material on the Xbox 360 and I'm finding that with challenging material, playback is disappointing even when throwing 15mbps at the encode.
720p/60 playback is pretty challenging in general. Are you playing these files from HDD or DVD?

[Sagittaire]

try this protocol:

1) Install Windows Media Encoder 9
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/encoder/default.mspx

2) Install Windows Medio Player 11
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/11/default.aspx
or better extract and install wmfdist11.exe from wmp11.exe

3) Update WMCmd.vbs file in C:\Program Files\Windows Media Components\Encoder directory
http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/WMCmd_20060825.zip

4) Make bat files and encoding in batch mode with this command line:

cscript.exe wmcmd.vbs -input HDDVD.avs -output VC1-10Mbps.wmv -videoonly -v_codec WVC1 -v_profile AP -v_mode 4 -v_bitrate 10000000 -v_peakbitrate 19600000 -v_peakbuffer 80 -v_keydist 1 -v_performance 60 -v_bframedist 2 -v_loopfilter 1 -v_mmatch 0 -v_mslevel 1 -v_msrange 0 -v_median 0 -v_framerate 60


I don't know the optical specification for xbox 360 (DVD 1X, 2X , 4X or more ... ???) and the buffer specification (DVD buffer or HDDVD buffer ... ???) but the previous profil will done good quality result and certainely high compatibility stream with xbox 360.

[easy2Bcheesy]

You know WMV9 is VC-1, right? :)

I sometimes get confused with all the different versions, but yes I'm aware that VC-1 is a part of WMV.

720p/60 playback is pretty challenging in general. Are you playing these files from HDD or DVD?

I'm playing from a USB flash drive, although I would want to distribute these files on DVD.

I will try Sagittaire's recommended course of action. Although I thought I was doing well before with peak rate VBR, I tried another 720p/59.94 video and it performed terribly.

Right now, unbelievably, I am getting smoother playback and superior picture quality using Windows Media Encoder and main profile. That just can't be right.

[Inventive Software]

Directly from a flash drive is a bad idea, cause the transfer rate is never constant. Transfer to a hard disk, then try streaming it.

[easy2Bcheesy]

I tried Sagittaire's script and the file looks nice on my laptop, but does freeze here and there. On the 360, picture quality, to begin with (and this is just a black screen with a logo!!) looks absolutely dire and then it simply locks up when the action starts.

Something is definitely amiss here. The VC1 encode looks very close to the CineForm HD original on my notebook. On my 360, quite apart from the dropped frames, there's artefacting all over the place - it's as though it's not decoding the file properly. There is no such artefacting on PC.

I'm going to try streaming the files directly from WMP11 to see if that makes any difference. Then I'll do some comparison shots for you all, and perhaps upload some small WMVs.

As I said, right now main profile encodes from Media Encoder are miles better than what I'm getting from VC1.

[Sagittaire]

I tried Sagittaire's script and the file looks nice on my laptop, but does freeze here and there. On the 360, picture quality, to begin with (and this is just a black screen with a logo!!) looks absolutely dire and then it simply locks up when the action starts.

Something is definitely amiss here. The VC1 encode looks transparent to the CineForm HD original on my notebook. On my 360, quite apart from the dropped frames, there's artefacting all over the place - it's as though it's not decoding the file properly. There is no such artefacting on PC.

I'm going to try streaming the files directly from WMP11 to see if that makes any difference. Then I'll do some comparison shots for you all, and perhaps upload some small WMVs.

As I said, right now main profile encodes from Media Encoder are miles better than what I'm getting from VC1.

perhaps profil/level limitation:
- Xbox is compatible with SP, MP or AP ... ???
- functionality limitation like inloop, motion vector range, bframe number or GOP ... ???

try this: VC1 MP@HL (in fact old WMV9-HD profil) without inloop and bframe.

cscript.exe wmcmd.vbs -input HDDVD.avs -output VC1-10Mbps.wmv -videoonly -v_codec WMV9 -v_profile MP -v_mode 4 -v_bitrate 10000000 -v_peakbitrate 19600000 -v_peakbuffer 80 -v_keydist 1 -v_performance 60 -v_bframedist 0 -v_loopfilter 0 -v_mmatch 0 -v_mslevel 1 -v_msrange 1 -v_median 0 -v_framerate 60

and try setting improuvement ...

motion vectors range: -v_msrange 1, 2, 3, 4 and finaly 4
inloop: -v_loopfilter 1
bframe number: -v_bframedist 1 and 2
buffer: -v_peakbuffer 80, 160, 240, 320, 400, 480, 560, 540 and finaly 720
profil: -v_codec WVC1 -v_profile AP

use usb flash drive is really not a good idea for make these test ...

[CruNcher]

ahhh indeed your problems would make sense, because Microsoft and ATI announced that the codec (Hardware most probably) for HD-DVD playback would be inside the external HD-DVD drive so the XboX internaly seems not to be HD-DVD ready but testing this from a usb flash device hmm better would be the internal HDD.

[easy2Bcheesy]

It's all beginning to make more sense. In Windows Media Encoder Studio Edition if I select B frames, or any of the other niceties it simply freezes and the video itself, when it does play, is of dire quality.

The only way I can get VC1 encodes to work is by turning off all of those options, upping the buffer size considerably, and making the bitrate rather extreme too.

As I mentioned earlier, doing a Windows Media Encoder session at 59.94fps *at the same bitrate* produces a far smoother image with much better picture quality. But it's still nowhere near 60fps.

With regards using a flash drive, it's the only option I have as my USB hard disk doesn't work with the 360 and the internal drive is inaccessible to the user.

In terms of the VC1 decoding being done by hardware, based on this performance it makes sense, although the only press release I saw only seemed to be talking about H.264 decoding being done by the ATI part. Everywhere else I read said that VC1 was already incorporated into the MCE extender. And even then, it's not actually hardware within the HD DVD add-on doing the decoding - it's the Xenos GPU in the 360. So for whatever reason, assuming I am right, whatever HD DVD code that has been added to the 360 in the new update isn't being used to make any of the other media player functions any better. This is rather disappointing.

As it is, the WMV playback element incorporated into the 360 is now a bit of a disappointment, and smooth 720p/60 playback appears to be impossible. Even relatively simple clips encoded at 60fps in the Main Profile drop frames.

[easy2Bcheesy]

Here are a couple of clips for people to play with. As they are peak VBR clips and there's not much footage to distribute the bitrate around, quality isn't amazing.

720p/60 Footage (adapted from Sagittaire's first script so it will actually play on the 360): http://rapidshare.com/files/1966350/Xbox_Test.wmv.html

720p/60 Footage as per Sagittaire's script, which doesn't work: http://rapidshare.com/files/1968874/Xbox_Test2.wmv.html

If any one wants the CineForm HD AVI, it's 147mb and you'll need to download one of the trial products from www.cineform.com for the decoder (which is free and can be kept when you uninstall the trial).

Part One: http://rapidshare.com/files/1985702/xbox_clip.part1.rar.html
Part Two: http://rapidshare.com/files/1993053/xbox_clip.part2.rar.html

[arfster]

I'm trying to get the best possible 720p/60 playback from VC-1 material on the Xbox 360 and I'm finding that with challenging material, ......

Is it genuine 60fps material, or just frame repeated? Anything shot on film originally will be 24fps repeated in 3232 pattern, so you can throw away 60% of the frames and get exactly the same video output. If it's a bandwidth issue inside the xbox's video decoder, 24fps is going to be an awful lot easier to deal with than 60fps.

[easy2Bcheesy]

It is genuine 60fps material.

[CruNcher]

easy2bchessy could you try the alan wake trailer on your XboX 360 thx :)

you find it here http://download.remedygames.com/movies/alanwake_720p60_51_15mbps.wmv

im almost sure this conforms to the power of the Xbox 360 as this Video was done by Microsoft Studio and for sure also for Distro on the XboX Live Services and it is VC-1.
So i would say that 720p above 15 Mbit 60p is not gonna work on the XboX 360 but it seems enough normal 720p content needs arround 7-8 Mbit so this is double the Bitrate for double the fps seems logic.

[easy2Bcheesy]

Hi there,

I don't think the 720p/60 version is downloadable from Xbox Live. All videos there are 720p/30.

However, I did download from the link you provided and surprisingly it runs fairly well. Quality is identical between this video and on my PC so maybe VC1 is indeed supported? However, while the picture quality is perfectly intact, it is still dropping a noticeable amount of frames.

I'd love to know what profile they are using.

[Bathrone]

MS always seem to make it hard. They released some "info" on what the new dashboard update added and it wasnt detailed enough to address the questions in this thread, and it was plain wrong in other areas such as them saving WMVP isnt supported when in fact it is supported in vista media centre extender situations.

Why can't MS give us clarity. Afterall since they see fit to force us into WMV and their codecs for many situations like XP SP2 WMP11 streaming you'd think they would atleast assist that happening.

[zambelli]

I sometimes get confused with all the different versions, but yes I'm aware that VC-1 is a part of WMV.
No, VC-1 is not a subset of WMV. WMV9 is an implementation of VC-1, just like x264 is an implementation of MPEG-4 AVC. So there is no special VC-1 decoder that needs to be added to the Xbox in order to play WMV9 MP or AP videos. WMV9 is VC-1. The only WMV9 profiles ruled uncompliant with VC-1 are the Complex Profile and the old 4:1:1 interlaced mode, but those are extremely rare.

That said, the VC-1 decoder that comes with the HD-DVD addon might indeed be a different decoder, but that'd be due to the specific ecosystem of the unit. I'll see if I can find the Microsoft tester who tested WMV9/VC-1 decoding in the Xbox and I'll try to find out what the requirements for smooth 720p/60 playback are.

[lexor]

hmmm.... a thread asking what's best and bond didn't strike author? is he tied up in your basement easy2b? I mean that's the only explanation for him not being on you like white on rice :)

[easy2Bcheesy]

There is a difference between asking for what is best (which is something entirely subjective) and requesting encoding assistance for making something actually work the way it should. Right now I am unable to get properly working 720p/60 playback using a Microsoft codec on a Microsoft piece of hardware. I'm sure this is allowable discussion? :confused:

Zambelli, thanks for your kind offer.

[Stebet]

What users need now is a proper (no, WME with all its issues is not proper i.m.o) transcoding tool from Microsoft to really take advantage of the WMV playback the 360 has to offer. A program similar to Nero's Recode would of course be ideal (or if Nero Recode could recode to WMV9).

Also, do note that as of now the 360 WMV decoder does not properly display pictures with custom pixel ratios (as in not 1:1). It is a known issue though and i hope it'll be fixed soonish.

[Sagittaire]

What users need now is a proper (no, WME with all its issues is not proper i.m.o) transcoding tool from Microsoft to really take advantage of the WMV playback the 360 has to offer. A program similar to Nero's Recode would of course be ideal (or if Nero Recode could recode to WMV9).
soonish.

Zambelli is the official MS tester for VC1 implementation from WME9/WMP11 ... I think that he know VC1 very well ... lol

There are simply limitation for Xbox 360 like SAP profil for MPEG4 ASP (special vbv, no GMC, no Qpel). If you want really know the profil then you make test with different setting. It's really simple ...

[Stebet]

Zambelli is the official MS tester for VC1 implementation from WME9/WMP11 ... I think that he know VC1 very well ... lol

There are simply limitation for Xbox 360 like SAP profil for MPEG4 ASP (special vbv, no GMC, no Qpel). If you want really know the profil then you make test with different setting. It's really simple ...

Hmm.. i wasn't aware that i said anything to contradict Zambelli :P

I just knew about the Pixer Ratio limitation which b.t.w is just an issue when streaming through WMP11's UPnP server. It works perfectly fine when the 360 is used as a XP/Vista Media Center Extender so i presume it'll be fixed or at least the same codec will be used as is used in the Vista Media Center Extender (using two separate codecs on the 360 to do the same thing would seem rather odd).

About testing different settings, sure i could do that, but should i really have to? MS are marketing the 360 as this awesome media hub (which it is) but we don't have any tools to really take proper advantage of it. This is what i mean when i talk about a propert transcoding tool (or a new version of WME) being needed. I'm sure MS must have something planned?

B.t.w, have i understood correctly from previous threads that the WMV9 AP codec is still in beta form? If so, shouldn't we be getting a final version pretty soon now that Vista is about to RTM?

A lot of questions that maybe didn't all belong here but i hope Zambelli or someone from MS can shed a little light on some of them :)

[zambelli]

This is what i mean when i talk about a propert transcoding tool (or a new version of WME) being needed. I'm sure MS must have something planned?
I agree that an update to WME9 would be in order, but unfortunately this is a resourcing issue. The product has been dormant for years and pulling people from other projects to go work on it doesn't rank high in priority at the moment.
Fortunately, Microsoft has invested a lot into building a whole SDK for WMV/WMA authoring over the years. The APIs exist - there's nothing stopping 3rd parties or independent developers from writing transcoding tools which use the existing codec DMOs.

B.t.w, have i understood correctly from previous threads that the WMV9 AP codec is still in beta form? If so, shouldn't we be getting a final version pretty soon now that Vista is about to RTM?
Final version for XP just got released last week with WMP11. Vista will contain pretty much the same versions of codecs.
The beta WMV9 AP codec download is still up there because it installs on Server 2003 systems, whereas WMP11 doesn't. If you install WMP11, you don't need the beta download, of course (and it'll refuse to install on top of WMP11).

[Stebet]

Thx for the answers Zambelli. Greatly appreciated.

B.t.w i'm aware that making a new encoder/tool would demand resources which would propably have to be taken from other projects. Guess i'm just hoping that now when Vista is about to RTM and Office has already RTM'd as well as WMP11 that some resources in the Windows Media department might become available for a project like this. That would certainly rank high on my wishlist ;)

Regarding the API's and SDK's i certainly would try to make such a tool if i had the time. Who knows, maybe some time will free up.

[halim]

I will dig up whatever restrictions/guidelines applicable to the scenario you are attempting to encode.

Any special features in the material you have, i.e. flashes, intensive scene-changes.....etc.

Stay tuned.

Cheers.

[zambelli]

Hey everyone,
Halim is a fellow tester here at Microsoft who has experience with Xbox WMV decoder testing. I'm more of a Windows guy. :) We will try to get some data for you on what it takes to achieve smooth 720p/60 playback on the 360.

[veffremov]

Sorry to dissapoint you all, but the WMV decoder in the dashboard is using only one HW thread and is not capable of decoding the high bitrates HD-DVD supports.

Try to limit the bitrates to 6-8MBps with 10-12MBps peak and it should be smooth.

The HD-DVD addon has separate versions of the WMV decoder, which is optimized for that scenario.

~Venelin

[CruNcher]

The HD-DVD addon has separate versions of the WMV decoder, which is optimized for that scenario.

is this gonna update the entire dashboard code too, so also "average joey's" can take advantage of it or will it be restricted to HD-DVD Playback ??
and if yes will be there a free version so "average joey's" don't have to buy the HD-DVD pack and take advantage of the faster decoder anyway ?? (somehow i feel you gonna answer this with "no they won't be a free decoder you have to buy the HD-DVD pack, but then you will be able to use the new (faster) decoder also for your "average joey's" stuff")

[veffremov]

is this gonna update the entire dashboard code too, so also "average joey's" can take advantage of it or will it be restricted to HD-DVD Playback ?
...


Sorry, the HD-DVD addon has different version of the decoder and will not update the dash. The HD-DVD decoder is optimized for VC-1 AP only, while the dash is backwards compatible with WMV7,8 PhotoStory etc.

May be in the future both will merge, but no promises.

[Bathrone]

Thanks alot Halim I look foward to your reports.

We want to use the 360 for video but are quite confused about what is supported. Microsoft released some info the xbox blog but it was not very specific and was wrong in some situations - e.g. WMVP is possible over Media Centre Extender on Vista Ultimate RC2.

Apart from specific profiles and details for what the 360 will do, could you also please state what the media centre extender with the 360 will do as well under streaming?

And on the audio side, what audio codecs are is supported and the profile details with that. The same again please, for the 360 is standalone mode, and then the 360 in streaming mode under media centre extender on Vista.

Thanks :)

[Bathrone]

Sorry, the HD-DVD addon has different version of the decoder and will not update the dash. The HD-DVD decoder is optimized for VC-1 AP only, while the dash is backwards compatible with WMV7,8 PhotoStory etc.

May be in the future both will merge, but no promises.


What about mpeg2 and AVC, this is also within HD-DVD.

[easy2Bcheesy]

veffremov: the HD DVD addon may well use a different version of the decoder, but the code that runs it is still in the same dashboard update. It does seem puzzling that two VC-1 decoders would be in the same codebase. Why not simply kick in the VC-1 decoder when VC-1 content is found?

Halim: I'm attempting to run game footage on the 360. I've posted samples earlier in the thread. This does present interesting encoding problems in that it's 60fps, very sharp and has an infinite depth of field. However, right now I can't get any 60fps HD DVD compliant content to work at all. And when I adjust the profile to make it work, I find the picture quality uniformly disappointing and get better performance from the bog-standard Main Profile.

[idbirch2]

I am also trying to playback some WMV9 VC-1 content on my 360 but have run into a few problems. I am converting a BBC Planet Earth episode which is encoded in H264 MBAFF. The first few tests looked OK but were jumping/skipping in places (always the same places I think). The last test I did resulted in "Your Media Center Extender is unable to play this high definition content, refer to your Extender documentation etc".

I encoded using 2-pass unconstrained VBR, 2ch audio, no interlacing. End result looks great on the PC but will not play on the 360, giving the error above. Is this a bitrate issue? What is the maximum bitrate for WMV AP that the 360 can playback?

[veffremov]

veffremov: the HD DVD addon may well use a different version of the decoder, but the code that runs it is still in the same dashboard update. It does seem puzzling that two VC-1 decoders would be in the same codebase. Why not simply kick in the VC-1 decoder when VC-1 content is found?


That is actually incorrect. The HD-DVD software is not in the dashboard. It arives with the drive and stays with the drive.

[veffremov]

We want to use the 360 for video but are quite confused about what is supported...

VC-1 Simple, Main and Advanced profile for 720p up to 60 fps for bitrates 6-8MBps. 1080p 24fps same bitrates (loop filter off).

Do not use display size != encoded size.

Anything above may or may not work - there are no hard limits and it is certainly content dependent. The only limit is the CPU performance.

Media center extender uses more or less the same decoder, so it supports the same profiles. However there are some system level differences and some features like non square pixels work in MCX and do not in the dash.

PhotoStory 1,2 and 3 is supported in the MCX - I don't have hard limits on the video size, but 800x600 should work fine.

Audio WMA Standard up to 320 kbps, WMA Pro up to 7.1@768kbps, WMA Lossless. (This is only when the audio is bundled with a video track).

As you get agressive in audio it eats from the video decode cycles, so you may want to lower the video settings if you want Lossless 5.1.

Hope this answers your questions.

[veffremov]

I encoded using 2-pass unconstrained VBR, 2ch audio, no interlacing.

Unconstrained VBR is a bad idea as the bitrate may spike quite a bit and you will get frame drops. You should use peak contrained VPR with peak around 12-15Mbps.

Also avoid excessive buffer size as it also may result in high bitrate peaks.

[veffremov]

I'm attempting to run game footage on the 360. I've posted samples earlier in the thread. This does present interesting encoding problems in that it's 60fps, very sharp and has an infinite depth of field. However, right now I can't get any 60fps HD DVD compliant content to work at all.

The dash player does not support HD-DVD compliant content, so no luck there. Why not try to encode @30fps - granted the motion will not be that smooth, but you can use more bits per pixel.

[Sagittaire]

Why not a HDDVD structure on simple DVD9 for XboX 360 ... ???

[Bathrone]

Veffremov thankyou for the information

EDIT: Sagittaire I tried to burn a valid HD-DVD disc containing MPEG2 HD test patterns but my 360 wouldnt play it on its dvd drive - and yes it has the latest fall update dash revision. I thought it mike work since getting the fall update cos it will was just DVD-R not Hd-DVD, but Veffremov is right it did not detect the HD-DVD format on the DVD-R disc.

[veffremov]

Why not a HDDVD structure on simple DVD9 for XboX 360 ... ???

This works fine if you buy the HD-DVD addon.

[idbirch2]

Unconstrained VBR is a bad idea as the bitrate may spike quite a bit and you will get frame drops. You should use peak contrained VPR with peak around 12-15Mbps.

Also avoid excessive buffer size as it also may result in high bitrate peaks.
Thanks for the tips, I will try another test encode with the settings you have suggested.

So does anyone have any proper figures on exactly what the 360 can play back WMV-wise? Also, shouldn't we have an xbox 360 profile for WMV encoding so that we can guarantee our output is 360 compliant? Maybe I should rephrase that - we should have a 360 profile for WMV encoding. If MS want people to move over to their less popular codecs, it needs to be easier to achieve usable results.

[Bathrone]

Do not use display size != encoded size.

Would you mind please expanding on this point.

[Bathrone]

This works fine if you buy the HD-DVD addon.

Does it have to be plugged in or is it just first use then your right? Thanks

[easy2Bcheesy]

veffremov: 30fps will be OK in many instances where the source is actually running at 30fps. However, many games run at 60fps and in this case, I am doing the games a disservice by running at half the refresh rate.

This is why the dashboard update to the 360 excited me - having access to a real HD standard on a consumer level device would be great for my line of work.

The good news is that I am now getting smooth 60fps movement following your advice. Indeed, I have upped the profile to 10mbps/15mbps peak and it's still running at 60fps. Picture quality is sometimes fine, but mostly unacceptable.

I am sure I will benefit from the bandwidth advantages that moving to AP will give on 30fps content but it is cold comfort, somewhat.

A few more questions:

- Are there any tricks I could use to lower bandwidth? How about the DVCPRO-HD technique of encoding at 960x720, but scaling horizontally at playback? Does the player support this or will it have the same issues as the 1440x1080 content out there not working properly?
- Are there any other CPU-saving tips, eg switching to a CBR profile?
- on the 360, is there any way to get a user-defined thumbnail on WMV content rather than the basic movie cel icon?

[CruNcher]

thx veffremov for the inside info on the decoding power of the (plain) Xbox 360 without addon, so now it will be easy peasy to compare with the PS3 once it's out (video demos of the multimedia stuff really looked nice) and no restrictions as Sony claimed as in other products also sounds like a buyer for me :). Just only one question you said the faster decoding will "come with the drive and go with the drive" does that mean it's a hardware codec inside the drive that does the HD-DVD VC-1/H.264 decoding ? i don't understand from a technical standpoint why the dashboard shouldn't be able to use that, @ the moment this sound's like plain consumer restrictions to me nothing more.

[easy2Bcheesy]

With regards AVC, Microsoft has to pay royalties when it is used. Therefore, they are limiting it to those who have paid for the HD DVD unit.

It will be interesting to see what limitations Sony puts on its AVC decoding - knowing Sony I can't imagine them giving you the keys to BD quality movie playback. I'm particularly interested in finding out whether AVCHD files will work on it.

[CruNcher]

easy2Bcheasy yes but they also limiting their own VC-1 users that's a difference and i agree i couldn't belive it when i heared Sony won't apply any restrictions this time as they for example did with the PSP for obviously reasons (selling UMD) but i belive that something @ the top of Sony is changing in those regards and i feel with the PS3 this could be the start of the new "Sony Era" :) (at least i hope), we gonna see soon.

[Sharktooth]

Those behemot like companies think they're the "king of the hill" and have their own way of doing things. They will never change their mind.
It's like hoping MS will remove the absurd license restrictions on Vista... or remove DRM from WMP...

[veffremov]

Would you mind please expanding on this point.

VC-1 AP has a feature, where the codec pictures are smaller size then the display size. Similar to non suqre pixels, but works to resize in both directions: vertical and horizontal.

For example you may encode 1920x1080 content as 1280x720, but set the display size to 1920x1080 - the decoder will resize internally to the display size.

The feature is designed for TV Broadcast scenarios, not terribly usefull for offline encoding.

Anyway we have a big perf hit if that feature is used. I hope we can adress this in feature updates.