how to creating Quicktime Player v7.xx compatible 6 channel aac + x264 in mp4 file?

[chros]

I'm used to convert trailers from various formats to x264+aac.
These are working well when we speaking about 2 channel audio (CE-QuickTime profile in megui), but not with 6ch. (Before you asked why QT7 compatible files: lots of users are demanded it. :( )

Strange is that when I have created a 6ch *.aac (with CT) it plays fine in QT7, but if it's in an mp4 container, it doesn't. (So probably the mp4 parser of QT7 is bad.) The bad thing is that I can't remux the encoded video and audio into a mov container. (Maybe QTInput avisynth plugin can do this, but I think it doesn't support 6ch audio in QToutput ... :( )

So does anyone manage to do this?
Thanks

[nurbs]

If I am not mistaken Quicktime simply doesn't support 6ch in mp4. You can search a bit and you'll find some threads were it is mentioned.

[bond]

exactly, quicktime simply su*s

[Skelsgard]

Quicktime does sucks but pretty much every HD trailer in the Quicktime site has 6ch AAC.
The tricky part is to get into an compatible MP4 container.

[bond]

The tricky part is to get into an compatible MP4 container.no, thats the easy part

the tricky part is to get qt to support 6ch aac in mp4 and not just stereo. before you waste your time, qt doesnt support 6ch aac in mp4

[yuvi]

before you waste your time, qt doesnt support 6ch aac in mp4

Incorrect. QuickTime can't create an mp4 with 6 channel AAC, but it does support 6 channel mp4 AACs. The only limitation with aac audio in MP4 that I'm aware of with QT is that the track has to be designated MPEG4 aac and not MPEG2 aac. I could have sworn that mp4box had a command-line switch to change this, but I can't find it now. You could try using ffmpeg to mux your audio and video to .mov; that doesn't have the two different possible designations of AAC audio, and should work in QT. Or if you have QT pro you could save the .aac as .mov and use that.

[bond]

again, my qt doesnt support 6ch aac in mp4, be it mpeg-4 or mpeg-2
if you have a working sample i would be happy if you could upload it somewhere

btw mp4box will signal the aac as mpeg-4 or mpeg-2 depending on whether mpeg-2 or mpeg-4 is signalled in the raw .aac

[yuvi]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BYKX01TF is 6 channel aac in mp4 that works fine for me in QuickTime. And I knew that mp4box would set mpeg2 or mpeg4 based on the .aac; I just thought there was a way to force one or the other.

[bond]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BYKX01TF is 6 channel aac in mp4 that works fine for me in QuickTime. And I knew that mp4box would set mpeg2 or mpeg4 based on the .aac; I just thought there was a way to force one or the other.hm if it plays for you, its fine, for me it doesnt in qt
it doesnt even display any info about it, like with any other 6ch aac files in mp4 here

which qt version are you using?

[yuvi]

hm if it plays for you, its fine, for me it doesnt in qt
it doesnt even display any info about it, like with any other 6ch aac files in mp4 here

which qt version are you using?

7.1.3, Mac OS X. So maybe just it's that it doesn't work in Windows...

[Sharktooth]

It doesnt play on QT 7.1.3 for windows... tried on 3 PCs...

[bond]

i tried a 6ch aac mov and it works here. seems damn apple limits it in mp4 only on windows...

[chros]

It doesnt play on QT 7.1.3 for windows... tried on 3 PCs...
Confirmed.

@yuvi: can you try this 6ch.mp4 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R8MZQ33H) on MAC ? (the demuxed aac is playable fine in QT7 on Win)
After you can verify that it's playable, we can declare this a bug in Windows version and maybe somebody may report it to Apple.

You could try using ffmpeg to mux your audio and video to .mov; that doesn't have the two different possible designations of AAC audio, and should work in QT. Or if you have QT pro you could save the .aac as .mov and use that.
I have created another thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=895765&posted=1) to this topic, if you want you can look into it. I would appreciate that.

And thanks to the others for helping ...

[yuvi]

@yuvi: can you try this 6ch.mp4 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R8MZQ33H) on MAC ? (the demuxed aac is playable fine in QT7 on Win)
After you can verify that it's playable, we can declare this a bug in Windows version and maybe somebody may report it to Apple.
Works fine here on Mac. Somewhat unrelated, but I've also found that while MPEG2 AAC doesn't work in MP4, the raw .aac works fine.

[an3k]

check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime#Profile_Support (scroll down to "Container Benefits"). There you can read:
One recent discrepancy ushered in by QuickTime 7 is that the MOV file format now supports multichannel audio (used, for example, in the high-definition trailers on Apple's site), while MP4 is limited to stereo.

and no, i dont hear anything if i play the mp4 with qt7pro (windows)!
If i use Ctrl+J and select the audiostuff, i get the attached error - everytime i try this.

6 channel mov is no problem.

i already talked about this with some apple supporters and wrote some mails to fraunhofer iis guys ... apple will fix this bug in some days, but can't hurt if you write them a feedback too, at http://www.apple.com/quicktime/feedback/

Regards

an3k

[KoD]

Not quite related, but found this in another thread: it shows how "good" the Quicktime h264 decoder is (tests made on Windows)...
article (http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/video_dec.html).

Which makes me wonder why do people really care about Quicktime on Windows at all...

[Sharktooth]

CrapTime(tm) is really a horrible player (on windows).
We should start answering all qicktime related questions with "get a real media player" ...

i already talked about this with some apple supporters and wrote some mails to fraunhofer iis guys ... apple will fix this bug in some days, but can't hurt if you write them a feedback too, at http://www.apple.com/quicktime/feedback/
Useless... they will fix it whenever they want to (and sometimes it's "never").

[an3k]

1. QuickTime sucks (mov is "nice" but thats a different part)
2. Apple will fix this in the next days or weeks cause of if they don't change they are not longer allowed to say "quicktime supports ISO / ISMA MPEG-4" and this apple dont want ... loss of money/customers.

But to fix this problem ourself, just totally ignore QuickTime and perhaps make your files inreadable by Quicktime (just change a bit in the mp4-container).
If we start ignoring Apple/QT, they'll stop ignoring us!

Sorry for my "english"

[yuvi]

check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime#Profile_Support (scroll down to "Container Benefits"). There you can read:
One recent discrepancy ushered in by QuickTime 7 is that the MOV file format now supports multichannel audio (used, for example, in the high-definition trailers on Apple's site), while MP4 is limited to stereo.
In context that sounds more like it's referring to QuickTime's MP4 exporter being unable to create MP4 files with multichannel AAC, a limitation present in the Mac OS X version as well (unlike the playback problem on Windows which I was unaware of until now.)

Not quite related, but found this in another thread: it shows how "good" the Quicktime h264 decoder is (tests made on Windows)...
article (http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/video_dec.html).
I kind of wonder whether they used QuickTime 7.0 or 7.1... speedwise, there's a huge difference (it made 720p playable on my old G4, which VLC & MPlayer still struggle with.)

Which makes me wonder why do people really care about Quicktime on Windows at all...
Even I don't. Though, on Mac OS X it's a different story.

[giandrea]

Yuvi: I don't know what you are talking about, but I personally can't play ANY 5:1 AAC in mp4 file on my MacBook with QuickTime Pro 7.1.3. They play just fine if they are in the mov container. I was investigating the problem some days ago, and I haven't found a solution.
Probably it is related to the way that AAC is muxed in MP4 rather than MOV, that is different.

So this bug is not only present in the Windows version of QuickTime, it's present on the Mac version too... sadly...

[yuvi]

giandrea: Even the sample I linked earlier (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BYKX01TF)? I'm not aware of any QuickTime MP4 importers other than Apple's...

[an3k]

same here, i can play SD or HD content in a mov file which contains 6channel aac audio. no problems!

if you extract both streams without touching their data out of the mov and mux them into a mp4 container, file is still playable (video) but no audio (same behavior as with sample mp4).

the sample 6channel aac linked some postings ago is not playable here on Windows using QT Pro 7.1.3; tried it on Win2k/XP/98 and some Server Editions, also with QT Player 7.1.3
its almost the same, no sound and if you show the movie informations (apple+j / ctrl+j) you'll get a buffer overrun.

[giandrea]

giandrea: Even the sample I linked earlier (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BYKX01TF)? I'm not aware of any QuickTime MP4 importers other than Apple's...

Yes, it doesn't play, I get no sound and no information. And it chokes my computer while I open it (I have a 2 GHz Core Duo MacBook)... strange, but probably a QuickTime bug.

[an3k]

Hi,

im a user at the quicktime-user mailinglist and i asked the users about the problem. Today i got this:

We were able to reproduce this bug today. It is an endian flipping problem with multichannel audio MP4 files, so it affects little endian machines (Windows and Intel Macs) but not big endian machines (power pc macs). We'll have a fix for it in a future QuickTime release. Sorry for being vague. Apple engineers are not allowed to comment on release schedules for upcoming products.

Thanks for the bug report and for helping us make our product better.

-Brad Ford
QuickTime Engineering

[iwod]

Not quite related, but found this in another thread: it shows how "good" the Quicktime h264 decoder is (tests made on Windows)...
article (http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/video_dec.html).

Which makes me wonder why do people really care about Quicktime on Windows at all...

OMG Quicktime is doing crap in the test.

[Laraul]

What I'd like to know is why Microsoft refuses to add support for .MP4 to directshow. It's pathetic. Then again Windows doesn't even come with a DVD decoder. You have to use a third party one. I'm using Vista RC2 which comes with media center... yet no included DVD decoder.

Anyone want to give me a good reason why i should bother with video at all with Windows?

[Difatoni]

I dont know if it has already been stated, but quicktime CAN play 5.1 AAC in .mp4 container in Quicktime only on POWERPC MACS. The intel macs and windows cannot, and I read somewhere that it will be addressed in future releases of quicktime