Quality Issues

[erci]

I don't know if I am in the right place here, or if I need to talk about CCE SP instead if so please redirect me.

Anyways I am using the newest version of DVD RB, and CCE SP 2.67, and I am getting really bad quality, and I am encoding the movie in 8 (setting in RB so actually 7 real CCE) passes. I have tried changing some of the settings, with no luck, I still get the same quality. It looks like an older DivX encoding that the bitrate is too low on. Around everything I get blurry fields, almost blocky. I was trying to get a print screen but it will not let me do it.
I don't know what else anyone might need to help me out here. Please just ask what you need to know.

I am posting the log file in case it helps in any way.

Edit:
Don't know if it is suppose to, but it is only choosing the biggest set of vob files when I load the VIDEO_TS folder. In case that matters.

[Rippraff]

I guess there's a DTS or even worse a LPCM audio stream on this movie.
- Space for Video : 840,418KB
Indicates there isn't much space left. Keep only a smaller ac3 stream if there is any.

The other possibility, you have a huge number of small VTS on the disc, which aren't handled.
You can try it with
vts_min_size=1
under [Options] in your RB.ini
And more than 3 passes is overdose IMHO. ;)

Cu Rippraff

[erci]

cool... yeah it had a dts, which I had already removed, but I also removed the other languages too see if it will make a difference as well..
ok... maybe I will stay with 3 passes then if you say so, it is just that I run during the night usually and it take like 5 hours with that amount of passes so it doesn't really matter imho=)

but I am actually gonna start right now so I will limit the amount of passes for this run and see what happens

also what does the vts_min_size do (ok sets the minimum size of some vts file(s) but what exactly.

Thanks

[feedback]

Reduction Level for DVD-5: 20.9%
- Overall Bitrate : 1,100Kbs
- Space for Video : 840,418KB
- HIGH/LOW/AVERAGE Cell Bitrates: 1,599/600/1,100 Kbs
[20:17:13] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 2 minutes.
Man, that is really low on the bitrate. Try using a different Matrix for the movie like "BDVD" matrix (good in 1500-2500 range) in the Rebuilder options. You may, also, want to change the Decoder iDCT to '64 bit floating point' to improve the DVD.

Try using the "Beta Video segment Editor" of RB to reduce the bitrate to about 1000bps for the movie credits or just slideshow the credits so you can add the bits to the main movie.
You can also use it to blank, slideshow or just reduce the bitrate on any extras that are not wanted.

BTW, You do know you can setup RB to always delete DTS and other languages and subtitles in 'setup' mode.

P.S. Is this a natural movie, animation etc.?

P.P.S. Must agree with Rippraff...more than 3, or 4 at most, passes with CCE is overkill.

[erci]

so feedback are you talking about the pro version of RB in some of these (or all) cases? because some of the options you have mentioned I can not see anywhere (don't get me wrong just about to hit the sack here so didn't really look very closely) but just making sure.
if the options you are talking about to change the matrix is an option I can put in the ini file could you please give me the command?

I am planning on donating the 29.95 to get the pro version because it seems like it might be worth it, the only thing is that the money is a little short right now... college and shit is killing me=(

this is just a normal hollywood flick

it is rebuilding right now after a 3 pass cce encoding so we will see how it looks this time

[feedback]

Yes, I am talking about DVD Rebuilder Pro.

It's been so long since I used DVD Rebuilder standard that I don't remember what functions it has or in this case doesn't have.

Maybe you could use DVD Shrink to delete some stuff to save bitrate then use DVD RB (not Pro.)

You may, also, want to try the included HC encoder at the best setting as many posters have indicated in the past that it produces a better result at very low bitrates than CCE. You never know.

[feedback]

Almost forgot, you could use more of the available DVD disk space to up your bitrate by adding one of the settings below to the options section of your Rebuilder .ini

TargetSectors= nnnn
CCETargetSectors=nnnn
QuEncTargetSectors=nnnn
HCTargetSectors=nnnn

TargetSectors covers all encoders or just use the encoder specific ones like CCETargetSectors.

I have used TargetSectors= 2261000 and never really had a problem with oversizing. The DVD would usually come in at about 4475Mb.

There is more info. about it in the 'Hidden Settings' section of the Help menu of RB.

[writersblock29]

@erci

Which title is this? I know many Disney films like to completely stuff their disks full of features (and some of them you'd sure hate to remove, like in the Finding Nemo disks) and that can sure make it tough to get decent quality doing a full disk copy. But if the features are lame--or there's only one or two of them you'd like to keep on your backup, knowing that you can always watch the rest on your original the one or two times a decade you might have an urge to--then you can either use DVD Rebuilder Pro to blank them... or even pre-process the original with DVD Shrink as Feedback suggests. Either way, something's gotta give: Not that it's an iron-fist rule, but generally speaking, Qaulity=Bitrate, Bitrate=File Size.

Some tricks others have used in the past include either doing movie-only encodes (which play the movie from the get-go like a VHS tape would, using every availible bit for movie quality), turning motion menus into still frames (DVD Remake Pro, ect), removing unwanted audio tracks, and blanking bonus features.

One thing I do a lot of that sometimes allows me to back up all the material on the disk is to do two-disk backups. Disk One has only the movie and wanted audio/subtitles. Disk Two has the main movie blanked, and all the bonuses left intact. Having said that, however, there are moments when some of the bonus materials interlink with the main movie.

Hopefully that lets you see why knowing what title you're working on would prove helpful.

[jdobbs]

It might help if you can show a directory of your source material. If you only have 840MB available for video, there is 3.8GB of space being used up by something else. I can't imagine what that could be if you don't have an LPCM track in the source.

[erci]

ok lets see..

to begin with I think I got it down pretty good last time when I did it overnight actually.

the movie is XMen Se DVD1 so it really shouldn't have any extra material on it, just mainly the movie and some extra tracks. I removed all the extra tracks and just kept the 5.1 track, which according to RB is only an AC3 track and nothing else. It had a DTS that I had already removed to begin with.
This last time I put a 25% drop on extras (which imo shoudn't matter because there really is no extras on disc 1 och the SE) but for some reason it helped and made it look good. Now when playing it on my TV I cannot tell a difference though on my PC there is still a small degredation in quality but it is so small it is acceptable. Though if I can improve it even more I want to

@jdobbs:
how do you mean show a directory of the source material?

I appreciate all your help guys, I am kinda a newbie when it comes to dvd9-dvd5 backup

[Rippraff]

@jdobbs:
how do you mean show a directory of the source material?
Make a screenshot of your VIDEO_TS folder or copy the content (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=883524&postcount=31) and post it here, no need to mail it. ;)

Cu Rippraff

[jdobbs]

Which X-Men movie is it? I looked up X-Men SE and couldn't find any reference to it. I saw it in "Single Disc", "Widescreen", "Full Screen", as a part of the Trilogy, and the "1.5" edition -- but no SE...

[erci]

"1.5" with the extra scenes in it and stuff. The disc when you put it in the DVD is called XMEN_SE so that is where I got that from. When I got home from work I will get the VIDEO_TS directory uploaded.

[erci]

ok here print screen, with details selected from the source dir.

[jdobbs]

Yeah. I can see what the problem is. The MENU files combined are gigantic. Since the freeware version doesn't reencode menus there's not a lot you can do unless you want to try using a third party package like MenuEdit. I think I'll pick up the NTSC version of that disc and take a look at it. My guess is that those large menu files are actually filled with unreferenced sectors...

You'd need DVD-RB Pro (it does menu reencoding) in order to properly reencode this disc. It also automatically removes unreferenced sectors. Every now and then (rarely) one comes along that the freeware version just can't handle.

Anyone know if FixVTS might correct this?

[erci]

so you are telling me I need to give you 30 dollars of my hard earned cash=)
I think it might be worth it anyways since the pro version seems to have a great deal of improvements over the freeware version.

I know this is a little offtopic now when this is resolved, but a couple of q's about the pro version, can I install it on mutliple pc's without worrying about licensing? Is it much harder to use? I know it has tons more settings and improvements.

Thanks for all the help guys

[SpazzHH]

Anyone know if FixVTS might correct this?

It will if you check the "Remove unreferenced and blank cells" box.

[Rippraff]

@erci

It's without no doubt a good idea to donate for the Pro version. :)

If you want to stick to the free version for the moment two recommendations:
If you don't need these really huge menus take DVD Shrink switch to Reauthor mode and set main movie to "No compression" => feed the result to RB free.

If you want a backup with menu I'ld use MenuShrink (http://jean.laroche.free.fr/MenuShrink/) in front of RB free.

Cu Rippraff

[jdobbs]

so you are telling me I need to give you 30 dollars of my hard earned cash=)
I think it might be worth it anyways since the pro version seems to have a great deal of improvements over the freeware version.

I know this is a little offtopic now when this is resolved, but a couple of q's about the pro version, can I install it on mutliple pc's without worrying about licensing? Is it much harder to use? I know it has tons more settings and improvements.

Thanks for all the help guysThere's no real limit if you are registered. The system defaults to 5 concurrent SYSTEM IDs being registered -- but the count gets reset so often that it's unlikely you'll ever hit the five. Even if you did all it takes is an e-mail to dvd-rb@dvd-rb.com to get it reset.

[erci]

Ok Sounds good,

we will see where the money takes us next pay check. It seems like a good idea though. It seems to have a lot more features that are worth it.

Thanks for the help guys

[urvieh]

PMFJI, but the log file tells us something about a reduction to 20 something percent. This cannot be true because the original dvd must have had more than 20 gigabytes on it. Which programme did you rip the dvd with?

[jdobbs]

The 20% you see relates to the amount of reduction for the parts that will be reduced -- which wouldn't include the menus.

[Rippraff]

@urvieh

You're wrong. The reduction level is only related to video parts which can be decreased, except audio streams and menus (only free version).
In this case the menu has 2649MB see my MenuShrink link above.

Cu Rippraff

Edit: I'ld be much faster if we would write in german... :p ;)

[erci]

I paid for the pro version today, and I am encoding the title as we speak. I obviously choose to reencode the menus as well so we will see where it takes me=) I will let you guys know the result when I see it.
I appreciate your help.

[blutach]

The MenuShrink (http://jean.laroche.free.fr/MenuShrink/) idea is a good one. Also consider ripping with RipIt4Me, which would kill useless unplayed gigantic menu cells.

Regards

[erci]

Well with the professional version you do not need to use menushrink. This backup came out great. I removed all the extra soundtracks that was not needed and reencoded the menus, and the quality came out great. Loving it. Thanks a bunch.

Now even though this is a little offtopic I still have a question. I read on the site that I can remove the annoying intro screens (I assume like the FBI warnings that you can never skip etc) how is this done? Because I hate thoose screen when I watch my movies, and if they can be removed on the backups that would be great. Sorry to be offtopic, since I had this hear I just thought I would go for it since I already have this thread open.

[Rippraff]

Well with the professional version you do not need to use menushrink.
Glad you're pleased with the new pro and the results. Did you convert the menus to stills? I can't believe that there's so much room left for the feature even with normal menu encoding with this gigantic menu. 2649MB is the second biggest menu size that was ever reported on the MenuShrink side (http://jean.laroche.free.fr/MenuShrink/) so converting it to stills seems like a good idea.

I read on the site that I can remove the annoying intro screens (I assume like the FBI warnings that you can never skip etc) how is this done?
No you can't replace stills at the moment, but I think it's on jdobbs' to-do-list (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=117436).

Cu Rippraff

[erci]

Well, I played the finished result on both my computer and my standalone player, and the result in my eyes looks good. I have a HDTV, haven't tried it on that yet but I will too see if I can tell a big difference there, but to be honest I doubt it.

It sounds good that it will probably happen soon, but as I said, I am enjoying the pro version. I like it simple enough so I don't have to use more tools than necessary=) and this sure helps.