Serious "Skipping" problems with Video on some DVDs

[recoil47]

Lately I have been running into this problem, and I can't seem to find the cause or know how to fix it. It only happens on about 1 in 7 DVDs or so, but it is still at the point of really being annoying, as all should be backed up just fine.

The problem is that when I watch a backed up DVD, the video seems to "skip" almost as if its missing Frames. Here are a few movies this has happened in:

Three Kings
American President
The Right Stuff

In all three cases I tried the backup process twice and both times the result was the same. Other DVDs back up just fine though with no errors.

1) Does anyone know what could be causing this, or where this problem is coming from?

2) How do I fix it?

Here is my setup for reference:

Windows XP with Service Pack 2
DIF4U version 1.4.7.0
Scenaid 1.7.0.7
BatchCCEWS 0.9.1.7 Beta 5
CCE Version 2.70.01.05
Scenarist 2.7

First off, I didn't have this problem really at all before I reformatted my PC and put XP SP2 on. Also I might be running a different version of CCE (not 100% sure on this, but could this be a factor?). Either way I believe all other software versions are pretty much on their latest with the exception of Scenarist, but again, many other DVDs backup just fine.

Any thoughts to this problem? Is it an encoding issue, pulldown issue, or something different?

Thanks!

[Trahald]

i'll try to get one of those disks.. if you could make a snippet of the vob available (would have to be from the beginning of the vob and exhibit the skipping) does this skip in software or only during playback on hardware dvdplayer. what dvd player.

[recoil47]

OK let me try to answer your questions:

I tried the DVD in both DVD players of mine (hardware players). It skipped in both. My main player is a Denon DVD-2200, the other is a cheap Samsung unit.

If I play the ISO Image of the DVD on my PC with software, it doesn't "skip" but you can clearly tell there is something wrong with the picture. There are "artifacts" in the form of horizontal lines going through the moving images --- the same images that skip on the hardwar players. So it looks like something isn't quite right with the source. The software player handles it one way (by maybe trying to smooth out the motion of the picture, but by adding artifacts) and the hardware player does it another.

As for a portion of the VOB, I'd be happy to send it to you...but I don't know how to cut off just a piece of it. I have the full 1GB VOB on my PC that I can make available to download...but thats a big file.

How do you want to proceed, and is there any ideas forming from what I have described?

[Trahald]

im thinking pull down issue. the quickest way to check this is to rip your new disk with dif4u(unselect all vts but the movie vts for speed) run scenaid (but dont let it run batchccews if you have it setup to do so automatically) For the main movie .m2v file , check the .d2v in notepad. it should report >92% film on the last line. if so.. run dgpulldown on the .m2v file. 23.976>29.97. rename the new file with the big-3 format (samefilename.mpv.m2v).. then do the scenarist/ifoupdate thing. burn to a dvdrw and try it.. if it works better then its a pulldown issue. if it doesnt or the .d2v reported <92% film then im dunno, will need to see the file.

chopperxp should work for cutting (i havent used it tho)..

[Trahald]

i only need a small sample, btw.. 10 mb will do.. but must be at the beginning

[recoil47]

OK I'm not understanding what you are asking. I ran DIF4U with just the main VTS. Regarding Scenaid though, the only way to get it not to run Batchccews is to uncheck OPEN ENCODER AUTOMATICALLY. But when I run Scenaid, it doesn't do anything except go right into Scenarist. What settings do I need to change in Scenaid for it to do what you want it to, without running Batchccews, and still somehow run the encoder to size this thing on a single layer DVD?

[Trahald]

Well.. i meant use the NEW dvd5 that you made that exhibits the skipping.. not the real store bought dvd.. so it should already be the right size.

but i'll make it easier.. give me a few mins and i'll post a version of batchccews that always does 2_3 (sometimes it will do 3_2 or a modified 2_3 to help with vobid projects) most disks are pgc demux so it really isnt needed for those. put your settings back to how they were in scenaid and do a full project with this version (either use the original commercial disk or the dvd5 you made, doesnt matter for our testing). burn it and see if it works better

[Trahald]

ok.. the version is on sourceforge under the 0917 beta 5 release as test version for recoil. http://sourceforge.net/projects/batchccews/

also attach the cce_data.txt file from the disk you are gonna do here.

[recoil47]

Got the sourceforge version. Ill run everything tonight and see how it looks.

[recoil47]

OK so here is what I did, and it turned out the same.

I started with the original DVD, ran the Big3 as usual, but used the recoildebug version of Scenaid with all the normal settings I used. It didn't turn out any different.

I've attached the CCEdata.txt as you requested.

I'll try to pull a bit out of the VOB file and upload that in another post for you to check.

[recoil47]

OK,

I have just PM'd you a URL to grab a 27MB cut version of the first VOB which should show the skipping just fine.

[Trahald]

the debug version was batchccews :).. i'll have a look

on the cce_data.txt... which filename was the main movie?

[Trahald]

the vob you sent is showing a bff encoding (visually) but is flagged TFF. i ran it frame by frame in virtualdub with assumetff() separatefields() in the avs script and it jumped. with assumebff() it was fine. (well actually it was showing a film pattern but with bff it was always going in the right direction, with tff it went back and forth) ..

so.. i we need to see 1. why wasnt FILM chosen. and if there was a hard telecine then why wasnt bff used. so.. i need more stuff from u :)

i need a snippet from the ORIGINAL vob. the same size will do. i also need to see your batchccews log from the same project. and the .ecl for the movie. ANd the .d2v for the main movie pgc also.

[recoil47]

OK I'm on it. Ill post in the morning.

Definitely need to figure this out. I just completed backup of another movie and its doing the same thing. Seems like I'm almost at a 33% failure rate these days...

[recoil47]

OK,

I just PM'd you a new URL that contains all of the info you asked for, and a bit more. I figured there were some other things that might help. Also, it should be known that I use SCENAID to calculate filesize for the final DVD...NOT the DIF4U settings, so in that regards I uploaded the Scenaid_CCEData.txt file too.

The only thing I havent uploaded yet, is the BATCHCCEWS logfile --- I dont know where to find it. Could you tell me where it should be? Then Ill upload that as well.

[Trahald]

well.. i see the issue. i kinda assumed it was batchccews. but its on the doitfast4u end. the d2v is clearly film but it is showing as 29.97fps. did you accidently turn off 'autodetect NTSC video type' in doitfast4u main screen? (if there is an red X next to it, it is off)

[Trahald]

btw.. if that is not the case.. then i need the doitfast4u.log to see why it didnt change the d2v to 23.976(force film)

[recoil47]

Looks like I did somehow. Is that the issue? I guess I'll try it again and see.

[Trahald]

that would definately cause what we were seeing. wouldnt do it on all disks since depends how hte pulldown pattern was on the original disk. either way its a waste of bitrate cause you were encoding film stuff at 29.97.

[recoil47]

Well it looks like that was the issue. I have just finished the last of the DVD backups I had on my HD that were having that problem, and all went OK.

Sorry it was such a simple fix after all that work to find out the problem. I do know for sure that the button for Auto Detect NTCS was turned ON. I'm not sure how it got turned OFF actually. Perhaps I mis-clicked when I was unchecking subs, etc. And lets face it, that button doesn't exactly jump out at you and let you know that its ON or OFF very easily. In fact it doesnt even look like a button.

Thanks a lot for your help in getting this fixed. I'll keep an eye out next time.

-Chuck

[Trahald]

no problem. :) yeah.. actually happened to me too a few years (gosh years) ago. Either way, glad we got it sorted.

[D3s7]

sometimes the simplest things give us the biggest headache...

btw... i got my highspeed back.. expect to see updates soon

[influenza]

good news!

[jel]

btw... i got my highspeed back.. expect to see updates soon

...so you've finally fired the courier pigeon you've been using, hey d3s7?
:D

/jel puts away his book on morse code