Cannot make Dual Layer Backup with DVD-RB-Pro, CAN with AnyDVD & ImgBurn

[BuddTX]

DVD-RB-Pro version 1.10.09
AnyDVD Version - 6080
ImgBurn Version 2.1.0.0
MenuShrink 2.41

I have made many successful SL backups with AnyDVD and DVD-RB-Pro. I do the following:

1. Load AnyDVD
2. Rip Original DVD to HardDrive using AnyDVD
3. Use MenuShrink to get rid of menu anamation, etc.
4. Use DVD-RB-Pro to make ISO using HC Encoder
5. Use ImgBurn to create DVD

Works Flawlessly!
(Thanks JDobbs and Hank315 and SlySoft and ImgBurn!)

However I cannot make a Dual Layer Backup using DVD-RB-Pro. Note I am not abbreviating Dual Layer to "DL" because you cannot search using DL, DL is too short a word to use for a search.

Now what happens, is that I get up to step 5 (above) with no problem, but when I try to burn the ISO to a DL disk, I get the message:

========================
OPTIMAL L1 DATA ZONE START LBA None Found (VTS_01)
This image has not been mastered correctly for burning onto a double layer (OTP Track Path) disk.
None of the Cells meet the 'DVD-Video Specification' criteria for a potential layer break position.
========================

I did have DVD-9 Option is selected on DVD-RB-PRO, just FYI

Now I experimented using an alternate way to rip, make an ISO then burn, and it seemed to work perfectly:

With AnyDVD loaded (Fox in the lower right hand corner by clock), I:

1. Used ImgBurn to rip the DVD to disk (Actually ImgBurn created an ISO image to file on the fly from the DVD). (Again, note that AnyDVD is running, so Copy protection etc is being controlled by AnyDVD)
2. Used ImgBurn to burn the ISO to a Dual Layer DVD (+R)

Just FYI, the Source DVD was Stargate SG1 Season 1, Disk 1.

Now on one hand, I Have no problems doing a backup this way.

OTOH, I trust and like the fact that DVD-RB-Pro is "checking everything and fixing any problems".

(I think that later, I will try a "rip" from anyDVD and then create an ISO with ImgBurn, then see if I can write the Image to a DL DVD.)

So, am I missing anything by not using DVD-RB-Pro, when making DL DVD's?

Thanks in advance for any comments!

[blutach]

This is almost certainly a burning issue (why do you need to re-encode if you are burning to a DL DVD anyway, unless you want to use filters?)

Simply use ImgBurn (www.imgburn.com) in build mode after your rip and MenuShrink (this, too, is unnecessary in a DL burn - just get rid of IFO PUOps). Anyway, guide to using build mode on the ImgBurn Forum (http://forum.imgburn.com/) site.

That particular ImgBurn message is often related to your media not being of sufficient quality and the drive saying there are fewer sectors than there really are (cos there is obviously a LB cell in range). This is typical for poor DL media like CMC and Ritek. Use only Verbatims (MKM dye), ensure your firmware is up to date and your drive is in good working order.

Regards

[steptoe]

Try ripping the DVD to an ISO image using DVD Decrypter (its still out there if you look) and burn that ISO image back to a DVD-DL using IMGBurn

That way you are touching nothing apart from removing whatever is preventing you from backing up you're DVD in the first place

To get AnyDVD and DVD Decrypter to work together, run DVD Decrypter and change the following settings :

I/O
Change the interface to 'ElbyCDIO - Elaborate Bytes'

General
Untick the Check For Structure Protection

CSS
Change the CSS Cracking Method to 'none'


Basically all that does is let AnyDVD do the work of removing any protections and DVD Decrypter do what its very good at and rip

Those setting were suggested by the authors of AnyDVD so you can continue to use DVD Decrypter for newer protections and just update AnyDVD as and when to update protection removal for your backups


I also select all options in the 'File, IFO and Read Modes' PUO/Protections to remove anything that stop you from fast forwording or skipping the annoying copyright screens and even worse forcing you to sit through DVD previews and adverts

[BuddTX]

Blutach,
Thanks for the detailed answer.

This is almost certainly a burning issue

I don't think it was an actual burning issue, because ImgBurn never actually started the burn, it seemed to be checking the file.

(why do you need to re-encode if you are burning to a DL DVD anyway, unless you want to use filters?)


Thank you for saying this. As much as I love and trust DVD-RB-PRO, I was thinking that I did not need to use it, as AnyDVD should take care of any backup problems, and as I am copying to a DL DVD, I was thinking there is no need to to use DVD-RB-PRO, as you cannot improve on the original, with a 1:1 copy.

I do not know enough about filters yet to apply them effectively.

JUST FYI, Stargate:SG1 was the first DVD that did not "like" MenuShrink.

Another FYI, I found it interesting to see how good DVD-RB-Pro and HC Enc and Auto-Q2 work on a SL DVD compared to the original, as the SL needed 59.xx% compression, and I could not see the difference between the two!

Use only Verbatims (MKM dye), ensure your firmware is up to date and your drive is in good working order.

I was using Memorex 2.4 Copy DL DVD's from Fry's.

I guess TY does not make a DL DVD+R?

How do I tell that the Verbatims are MKM dye from the package?

Thanks again!

[BuddTX]

Try ripping the DVD to an ISO image using DVD Decrypter (its still out there if you look) and burn that ISO image back to a DVD-DL using IMGBurn

That way you are touching nothing apart from removing whatever is preventing you from backing up you're DVD in the first place


Thanks for the reply!
I did something similar (twice actually) with success! I used ImgBurn to make an ISO of the DVD (not DVD Decrypter) and burned the ISO to my DL DVD and it worked out fine!

I also "Tested" a burn using the AnyDVD "rip to disk" and then created an ISO using ImgBurn, then Burned a "test" DL DVD.


To get AnyDVD and DVD Decrypter to work together, run DVD Decrypter and change the following settings :

I/O
Change the interface to 'ElbyCDIO - Elaborate Bytes'

General
Untick the Check For Structure Protection

CSS
Change the CSS Cracking Method to 'none'

Basically all that does is let AnyDVD do the work of removing any protections and DVD Decrypter do what its very good at and rip

Those setting were suggested by the authors of AnyDVD so you can continue to use DVD Decrypter for newer protections and just update AnyDVD as and when to update protection removal for your backups

I also select all options in the 'File, IFO and Read Modes' PUO/Protections to remove anything that stop you from fast forwording or skipping the annoying copyright screens and even worse forcing you to sit through DVD previews and adverts

Thanks!

[jdobbs]

The only time you would need DVD Rebuilder (or any other package for that matter) in addition to the burning software when outputting to Dual Layer would be if you need to:

1. Run filters to improve the video.
2. Reencode -- for example to do conversion to anamorphic 16:9.
3. To remove video, sound, etc.
4. It doesn't fit (which can happen).

What I don't understand is why you would have had a problem with it using ImgBurn... especially since the layer break should be exactly where it was on the original... DVD-RB doesn't do layer break removal on DL discs.

Can you send me a zip file containing directory listing of:

1. The original DVD's VIDEO_TS folder.
2. The VIDEO_TS folder from DVD-RB

and

3. The IFO files from the DVD-RB VIDEO_TS folder

That way I can see what may have made it choke.

Thanks.

[BuddTX]

The only time you would need DVD Rebuilder (or any other package for that matter) in addition to the burning software would be when outputting to Dual Layer would be if you need to:

1. Run filters to improve the video.
2. Reencode -- for example to do conversion to anamorphic 16:9.
3. To remove video, sound, etc.


Thanks JDobbs.

My realisation last night and this morning was that, for DL backups, I do not need to use DVD-RB-PRO:scared:
There is no need.

I guess I just had a comfort level with useing DVD-RB-PRO

BUT, what was very interesting, was the quality of a SL DVD (even at 59% Compression) was just fantastic! I have a tube HDTV and I really was hard pressed to see a difference between the DL and SL.

But, I will send you those files this evening.

Thanks,

BuddTX

[BuddTX]

... DVD-RB doesn't do layer break removal on DL discs.


Interesting statement, because that was EXACTLY what I thought was happening, that somehow DVD-RB was removing the Layer Break.

[jdobbs]

BUT, what was very interesting, was the quality of a SL DVD (even at 59% Compression) was just fantastic! I have a tube HDTV and I really was hard pressed to see a difference between the DL and SL.That's usually the case. Every now and then you might run into a disc that is just too crowded to fit on a SL -- but its very rare.
My realisation last night and this morning was that, for DL backups, I do not need to use DVD-RB-PRO
There is no need. Except in the cases that I mentioned, thats true.
I guess I just had a comfort level with useing DVD-RB-PRONothing wrong with that. I personally rarely use dual layer -- they're just too expensive (unless you take a chance on those "questionable" brands -- and those still cost 3-4 times as much as a SL), and the price hasn't dropped significantly in two years. Even worse, from what I've read, they aren't expected to drop.

[blutach]

Your burner is probably having trouble reading the number of sectors in those lousy Memorex disks - so ImgBurn (www.imgburn.com) says, I can't find a proper LB position cos the sectors are too few.

Get Verbs - you will have no issues. The dye is not usually ID'ed on the packaging, although sometimes Verbs say AZO dye. If you are in a store, you can ask about the dye (they won't help but it's amusing to see how little they know about their products). Buy them online from a reputable supplier and phone first and ask them about the dye/media ID code. You can tell immediately you pop it in ImgBurn (www.imgburn.com) - the media ID code is in the right hand info box in write mode.

Stay away from El Cheapo blank DL DVDs. These include anything other than Verbatims.

And make sure your firmware is up to date.

Regards

[blutach]

Interesting statement, because that was EXACTLY what I thought was happening, that somehow DVD-RB was removing the Layer Break.ImgBurn (www.imgburn.com) will re-insert it anyway. It won't let you burn a coaster without a layer break.

Regards

[BuddTX]

Stay away from El Cheapo blank DL DVDs. These include anything other than Verbatims.

And make sure your firmware is up to date.

Regards

Thanks for the info on the Verbatim DL.

And my burners are BenQ 1655 and Benq1620 at home, and I have a BenQ 1640 at work and a Lite-On 1653S, all with the latest firmware, and maybe a little bit tweaked too!

[blutach]

http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/yer.gif

Let us know how you made out.

Regards