Building PC for encoding on a very tight budget

[ilovejedd]

I want to build a machine solely for backing up DVD9 to DVD5 and encoding HDTV captures to other formats. The PC I use both for encoding and backups is slow. I wasn't planning on using it for media encoding initially so system specs are pretty low (AMD Sempron 3200+ 1.8GHz, 2x512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM, NVidia GeForce 6200TC 128MB, WinXP Home). I was only going to use it for internet surfing and the usual word processing, spreadsheet, etc, but hey, look, it's a PVR now... I'm hoping to get the PC back for its original purpose instead of using it to encode videos 24/7.

I figured the following are the bare essentials I'll need (already have the hard drives and optical drives so they're not included).
Case:
Power Supply:
Motherboard:
CPU:
RAM:
Video Card:

With my current setup, I usually get 7fps (1st pass: 13fps, 2nd pass: 15fps) when converting HDTV to DVD compliant MPEG2 using HCEnc with Fast, all other options at default setting and the following script:mpeg2source("video.d2v").fielddeinterlace().BilinearResize(720,480)

Any recommendations for parts? For, hmm, say $600, how much gain can I expect? I'm thinking I don't need a powerful video card. It's purely for encoding and maybe just a bit of previewing the Avisynth scripts. I'll just be controlling the PC through VNC or hooking it up to an old CRT (15", 17" or 19") from the garage.

Thanks!

[Sirber]

your budget is a bit small... how about just getting a better CPU?

[Pookie]

Yes, $600 is a bit low, but it depends on your expectations - how much faster do you want your system to encode? Dual Core is the way to go, especially since more encoders are providing support for it.

Consider the ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100

I just built a system for a friend using this board last month. Video is onboard as well - $80

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131040

CPU

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103747

$190

That leaves you $330 for case, ram, power supply

RAM = $100 for 1GB of 3200
CASE = $80 Lian Li NICE case for the $ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112099
POWER SUPPLY = $35 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817105005
DVD Burner =$45 http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/Category.asp?Category=10

Get a hard drive fan $10 and/or a heavier CPU heatsink if you plan on transcoding 24/7

[Sirber]

he already has the RAM, GPU and so on.

best save money and only upgrade CPU no?, if his mobo supports it.

[ilovejedd]

@Sirber
The PC is an HP Pavillion a1400e. While it does accept up to Athlon 64 X2 Socket 939 processors, I'm not really expecting much from it. I figure I'd be better off building a machine from scratch instead of upgrading.

@Pookie
Regarding expectations, 0% CPU usage for video encoding on the HP Pavillion a1400e? That's basically it. I just need all my encoding done on a separate PC so I can use the old one for internet surfing. I don't really mind if it takes as long as the old PC. I just thought that at $600, I can probably get a marginally better system than the old one. The old one cost me $530 ($330 for a1400e base configuration w/15" LCD monitor, and $200 for 300GB SATA HDD, 2x512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM & Lite-On DVD burner from Newegg). This is just a temporary measure. This PC will probably go to my brother once I have enough saved for a better rig. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into those.

[foxyshadis]

Onboard video is a great way to save a few bucks, as long as it can actually handle a real card later (I doubt this is an issue anymore, I just remember old junker VIA and MSI boards in a lot of name-brand machines had a fit when you plugged video in a PCI slot) and gaming's not a big deal. You might even be able to get a really good deal on a decent pre-built machine, since we're getting closer to the holiday season.

Pookie, is there anything particularly compelling about that case, besides its color/texture? I'd rather spend that much on a nearly identical antec that would come with a (decent) power supply and be quieter, like this one that's nearly identical to my server's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129150). Although it might need a front-fan.

You can also get one of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185027) and see if you can push whatever you get to 5 ghz with it. =p

[Pookie]

Not "compelling", per se - the major positive feature of the Lian Li cases (other than being light because of the aluminum construction) is the slide out motherboard tray. Man, that makes building a lot easier. However, I've built systems with the Antec case you linked to as well - another great one, no question, and quite a bit less pricey. ilovejedd - Make sure you get the the one without a front "door" since you'll be using the DVD frequently -there are two models out there that look almost identical.

Yeah, those monster heat sinks are impressive. You might have to drill a hole in the side of the case just to to fit it :)

The rail system of the Antec cases let's you easily install the following type of drive cooler - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185003
That device lowered my drive temps significantly, and since every 10degrees C you can cool things down doubles the life of the product... (or so the saying goes)

[foxyshadis]

Oh, I've only seen that in BTX style cases before, that's kind of cool. =o

[Pookie]

I had a client who made their own render farm with motherboards hotglued to particleboard. The drives and power supply were Velcroed to the board, and it slid into a rack mount cabinet that had grooves sawed into the sides to hold the boards.

So if you really, really, REALLY want to save some $....:D

[Sirber]

can I see some pics?

[Pookie]

Former client. I recall the stuff being placed as below (arial view). The boards were warping, and the RJ45 connections were difficult to get to. Also, the heat rose to the top of the enclosure - huge temperature difference between the top and bottom of the cabinet. Sometimes, they'd place a floor standing fan in front of the cabinet to disperse the heat.

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/tn_Untitled1_76f99e58bf5504f51e20d8b6ebaacfd4.png (http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/Untitled1_76f99e58bf5504f51e20d8b6ebaacfd4.png)

[Blue_MiSfit]

Here's my reccomendations. All prices are from newegg.com, so that assumes you live in the US. It's also built expecting to not overclock much.

1) Case - Antec SLK3000-B
This is like the best midtower case under $100. It's got everything you need, a silent and very much adequate 120mm fan, superb construction, good subdued looks and good installation hardware (frequently overlooked component of cases). No power supply, but that's minor. I have used dozens of them in system builds and they are always fantastic. The 1650 that foxyshadis mentioned is great too, but 350w is a bit low for a Core 2 Duo system (especially if you are even considering adding a video card to it later). Maybe grab an extra 120mm fan, as it has a nice plug-in bracket for an extra. Add ~ $15 for a decent one

Cost - $55

2) PSU - Antec TruePower II 430W
Antec makes superb power supplies. I've had a 450w model with my system (see below) which is definately a high current system, and it has no problems at all - and I originally bought it 3 years ago. Bulletproof. Don't skimp on a power supply!

Cost - $59

3) Mobo - Intel "BLKDG965RYCK" (G965 chipset)
Legendary Intel desktop board reliability. Core 2 Duo support, 4 DDR2 slots, FireWire, PCIe x16 and 3 x1 slots. The usual plethora of USB2, and onboard audio and video. Not a great overclocker, but you can probably push it a bit. The Core 2 Duo is an easy gentle overclock.

Cost $109

4) CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E6300
1.86 GHz of badass Core microarchitecture. Should be able to clock it up to the next level (2.1 GHz) with no trouble at all, save yourself $50. Entry level.

Cost $180

5) RAM - OCZ Gold DDR2 800 2x 512 (1 GB) Kit
1 GB is enough for all but the most demanding AviSynth scripts. If you do lots of filtering of HD sources then 2 GB may be mandatory. DDR2 800 isn't much more than 667 or 533 these days so what the hell...

Cost $119

6) Video Card (Optional) - GeForce 7600GS 256MB PCI Express
Hardware accleration for certain filters. Not really mandatory considering the motherboard has perfectly decent integrated graphics.

Cost $~89 depending on brand

Without a video card this brings you up to just a hair under $600 with shipping and taxes. The only reason to add a video card is if you want to have hardware acceleration of stuff like fft3dgpu. This may or may not be worth the extra $ to you... Multithreaded avsynth will likely be a better route.

Anyway, that's what I would personally reccomend. This is a bulletproof system, not skimping on cheap components. It's also assuming you have a license for your XP or whatever you choose to run.

~MiSfit

[ilovejedd]

Woah, now that's amazing. A Core 2 Duo system for around $600. I think I'll probably go that route. I've been browsing various online retailers for parts these past few days looking for sales. I've got a Win2K from dead PC. That's what I'll be using. Thanks so much for the help!

[Soulhunter]

can I see some pics?

I like this one... (http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/3033/1145485247161cm0.jpg) XD


Bye

[Blue_MiSfit]

Holy CRAP. That's 1337!!!

I think Win2k should be allright, just keep in mind that a FEW apps requre XP. Pretty sure all that hardware has drivers for 2K from what I can see.

~MiSfit

[Sagittaire]

here by far better way ...

Intel D805 2.666 Mhz dual core at ~90$
Asus P5VDC-X at ~60$

AGP + PCIExpress compatibility
DDR + DDR2 compatibility
High o/c potential -> really easy to make 2.666@3.333 Ghz

you use your old GPU, old DD and old Ram ...

[Blue_MiSfit]

nooo.... Pentium D is dreadful... And why would you get a board that supports AGP and PCIe, DDR AND DDR2? Benchmarks have shown that to have this much compatibility, these hybrid boards sacrifice some performance. It just seems like black magic to me too :)

Besides, he wants another whole machine :)

[Sagittaire]

nooo.... Pentium D is dreadful... And why would you get a board that supports AGP and PCIe, DDR AND DDR2? Benchmarks have shown that to have this much compatibility, these hybrid boards sacrifice some performance. It just seems like black magic to me too :)

Besides, he wants another whole machine :)

No, he want just higher speed for MPEG2 encoding and Ram or GPU are no or small influance for that ...
For example I don't know if HCenc support multicore encoding ... perhaps that really powerfull monocore CPU can obtain better result here ... ???

[ilovejedd]

@Blue_MiSfit
Afaik, DVDDecrypter, DVDRB-Pro, HCEnc, Avisynth and ffmpeg all support Win2k. That's good enough for me.

@Sagittaire
Is that a recommendation for me or is that for your PC? I do want a new machine. The one I have wasn't really meant to do a lot so I'm not about about to spend money pushing it to its limits. Might as well buy a separate encoding machine for my purpose. That makes for better multi-tasking. The new PC encodes, while I do all the other stuff (surf internet, check email, etc) on the old one.

I'm waiting for Thanksgiving sale before buying parts. I can put off the encoding for a bit, anyway. My harddrive can still hold some more HD caps. When's the better time to buy? Before Thanksgiving or after?

[CWR03]

Here it's right after. Thanksgiving weekend is still the biggest spending time of the year, and a lot of stores run their biggest sales then. The problem I've found is that they never have what I'm looking for on sale. I tend to check regularly and buy something I've been eyeballing if it goes on sale or has a rebate, and I still check back for a couple weeks after so if it goes down after I bought it I can return it and get the cheaper one.

[Dayvon]

Here's my reccomendations. All prices are from newegg.com, so that assumes you live in the US. It's also built expecting to not overclock much.

1) Case - Antec SLK3000-B
This is like the best midtower case under $100. It's got everything you need, a silent and very much adequate 120mm fan, superb construction, good subdued looks and good installation hardware (frequently overlooked component of cases). No power supply, but that's minor. I have used dozens of them in system builds and they are always fantastic. The 1650 that foxyshadis mentioned is great too, but 350w is a bit low for a Core 2 Duo system (especially if you are even considering adding a video card to it later). Maybe grab an extra 120mm fan, as it has a nice plug-in bracket for an extra. Add ~ $15 for a decent one

Cost - $55

2) PSU - Antec TruePower II 430W
Antec makes superb power supplies. I've had a 450w model with my system (see below) which is definately a high current system, and it has no problems at all - and I originally bought it 3 years ago. Bulletproof. Don't skimp on a power supply!

Cost - $59

3) Mobo - Intel "BLKDG965RYCK" (G965 chipset)
Legendary Intel desktop board reliability. Core 2 Duo support, 4 DDR2 slots, FireWire, PCIe x16 and 3 x1 slots. The usual plethora of USB2, and onboard audio and video. Not a great overclocker, but you can probably push it a bit. The Core 2 Duo is an easy gentle overclock.

Cost $109

4) CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E6300
1.86 GHz of badass Core microarchitecture. Should be able to clock it up to the next level (2.1 GHz) with no trouble at all, save yourself $50. Entry level.

Cost $180

5) RAM - OCZ Gold DDR2 800 2x 512 (1 GB) Kit
1 GB is enough for all but the most demanding AviSynth scripts. If you do lots of filtering of HD sources then 2 GB may be mandatory. DDR2 800 isn't much more than 667 or 533 these days so what the hell...

Cost $119

6) Video Card (Optional) - GeForce 7600GS 256MB PCI Express
Hardware accleration for certain filters. Not really mandatory considering the motherboard has perfectly decent integrated graphics.

Cost $~89 depending on brand

Without a video card this brings you up to just a hair under $600 with shipping and taxes. The only reason to add a video card is if you want to have hardware acceleration of stuff like fft3dgpu. This may or may not be worth the extra $ to you... Multithreaded avsynth will likely be a better route.

Anyway, that's what I would personally reccomend. This is a bulletproof system, not skimping on cheap components. It's also assuming you have a license for your XP or whatever you choose to run.

~MiSfit

I'm quoting this whole thing because there is no contest. This is a truly GREAT build for $600 with a computer dedicated to encoding. It will encode so fast, the OP won't even know what to do with it.

[evilclive]

It may be a bit late to point this out, but the original CPU, the Sempron 3200+, is a socket 754 model - AMD's budget range, which is not available in dual core at all.

For the purpose of getting a fast transcoder (i.e. dual core computer), an incremental upgrade (CPU swap) is out of the question: there's no alternative to building or buying a brand new computer.

If you have a reasonable hard disk (300GB or more), it may be worth reusing it - the speed advantage of the SATA-2 hard disk interface is only really important for RAID arrays, and is almost irrelevant when the bottleneck is the processing speed.

Expect to have to leave the old DDR DIMMs and AGP 8x graphics card in the old computer, as the new one will almost certainly require DDR-2 and PCI-Express 16x.

By the way, will the latest motherboards (Intel Core 2 or AMD AM2) be pin-compatible with the quad-core CPUs that have been announced are now in development?

[ilovejedd]

It may be a bit late to point this out, but the original CPU, the Sempron 3200+, is a socket 754 model - AMD's budget range, which is not available in dual core at all.

For the purpose of getting a fast transcoder (i.e. dual core computer), an incremental upgrade (CPU swap) is out of the question: there's no alternative to building or buying a brand new computer.

If you have a reasonable hard disk (300GB or more), it may be worth reusing it - the speed advantage of the SATA-2 hard disk interface is only really important for RAID arrays, and is almost irrelevant when the bottleneck is the processing speed.

Expect to have to leave the old DDR DIMMs and AGP 8x graphics card in the old computer, as the new one will almost certainly require DDR-2 and PCI-Express 16x.

Nope, I checked HP's website. The motherboard's Socket 939, ASUS Nagami or something. I believe dual core CPUs are available for it (albeit a dying breed) and system specs says the motherboard can support it. So yeah, a CPU swap is possible, I just think it's useless. This PC is barely upgradable (HP Mini-Tower, all drive bays full, and I do mean all). As a basic family PC, it's great, especially since the base PC itself including 15" LCD plus tax and shipping cost me just $300 after rebate. However, it's far from being flexible. I've already spent enough money on upgrades for it (added 1GB RAM and a DVD burner). Upgrading it further would just be money down the drain.

No, I will not be reusing the hard disk (well, except to transfer the 300GB SATA data only hard drive containing the HDTV caps to the new one). Since it's an encoding only PC, I will not need a discrete graphics card. I plan on controlling it through VNC or I'll just get a KVM switch and connect it to my current setup.

[foxyshadis]

By the way, will the latest motherboards (Intel Core 2 or AMD AM2) be pin-compatible with the quad-core CPUs that have been announced are now in development?

AMD's will only be AM3, but apparently those can be stuck in AM2 without a problem. From what I've seen Intel is going to keep the same sockets, and then refresh the whole lineup with a new socket at the end of next year, but they haven't come right out and said as much.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Right, and IIRC from what Sharktooth said, the only real difference is DDR3 support. Seems like tha will do a whole lot of nothing, considering how worthless AM2 is.

All these new sockets really piss me off.

The FIRST 64 bit capable socket that AMD released was the 940. We have been through 4 sockets since then, and we still have 940 pins at the highest end! Talk about fragmenting the market...

~MiSfit

[foxyshadis]

Intel went through the same thing in the 90's, what with socket 5, socket 7 (which was similar to am2/am3 in backward compatibility), socket 8, slot 1 & 2, socket 370, socket 423, practically one every year before finally settling on 478 for a number of years. Let's hope AMD gets back to something like their Socket A stability in the future, I like being able to reuse motherboards at least once.

[bkman]

Awesome budget encoding setup, misfit :eek:

[Blue_MiSfit]

@foxyshadis:
you're definately right, but how long has AMD really been pushing the Athlon64 sockets? 4 years? Oh well :D

@bkman
ty... specing out systems is a little obsessive distraction of mine... :)
Keep in mind though it doesnt take into account an optical, hard drives, display, and other ususal bits... to get a core 2 system you really have to fork out close to $1k

[Sharktooth]

Right, and IIRC from what Sharktooth said, the only real difference is DDR3 support. Seems like tha will do a whole lot of nothing, considering how worthless AM2 is.
Also HyperTransport 3.0. which doubles the bandwidth.
An "intermediate" socket is planned too (AM2+) that will sport DDR2 + HT3.0.
The good news is all AM3 CPUs can be installed on AM2+ and AM2 (but not vice versa).