Log in

View Full Version : NeroDigital ASP Quality

fight2win
30th September 2006, 06:07
I just downloaded a trailer from Nero's Site, 720X576 ND ASP MP4 Video, and it looks awesome, has nd asp improved?

http://trailers.nerodigital.com/Sony/ThePursuitOfHappyness_Stan_ASP.mp4
bond
30th September 2006, 09:51
moved
shon3i
30th September 2006, 12:30
has nd asp improved?Nero devs says that is improved but, all codecs with that bitrate will be look awesome including DivX 3 SBC.

I can't wait to see Doom9 2006 codec shootout, because this is real comaration, where all codecs show some fault, and only superior go to the next round.
shon3i
30th September 2006, 18:44
I finished testing ASP quality with old NeNDVid.ax and quality is terrible. I encode War of the Worlds @ 700kbps, all sliders to max and mv 64 with qpel, and quality is horrible

look screenshot

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5624/bscap0000si7.jpg

Here is sample of Video ~3mb

http://www.mytempdir.com/961665
JohnV
30th September 2006, 21:31
I finished testing ASP quality with old NeNDVid.ax and quality is terrible. I encode War of the Worlds @ 700kbps, all sliders to max and mv 64 with qpel, and quality is horrible

look screenshot

http://www.mytempdir.com/961665
Disable "support of interlaced VOP" from advanced settings.
shon3i
30th September 2006, 21:51
Disable "support of interlaced VOP" from advanced settings.
Is not been turned on when i start encoding. I only set Extra Quality, 2pass, H263, Quartel Pixel, Predicted VOP, Unrestricted MV, 4MV, Bi-VOP, Max Key int 250, Matrices to default. I have no idea what is wrong, and why HE-AAC 5.1 can't be used in ASP encodings, becouse of ND standard or? Can you than make unrestricted profile?

Aslo with both AVC and ASP i can't see subtitles, but i am choose it.

But i must say i didn't see faster encoder.
Sagittaire
30th September 2006, 23:16
I finished testing ASP quality with old NeNDVid.ax and quality is terrible. I encode War of the Worlds @ 700kbps, all sliders to max and mv 64 with qpel, and quality is horrible

look screenshot

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5624/bscap0000si7.jpg

Here is sample of Video ~3mb

http://www.mytempdir.com/961665

1) IMO QPel is good for high bitrate
2) It's not comparison for me ... simply because I don't know the result with DivX/XviD with the same source and bitrate.
shon3i
1st October 2006, 10:57
1) IMO QPel is good for high bitrate
2) It's not comparison for me ... simply because I don't know the result with DivX/XviD with the same source and bitrate.

1) That is not problem because i always use Qpel in XviD with all bitrates and i never get this monstrum

2)I am not comparing it to DivX/XviD, i just use it to encode one movie because nero devs says that is now superior, but i get this monstrum. To be honest looks like encoder have problems with bitrate distribution.

Today i will try to make some comparing betwen XviD and ND ASP. But again how make it when, ND ASP encoder is broken.
Manao
1st October 2006, 11:56
2)I am not comparing it to DivX/XviD, i just use it to encode one movie because nero devs says that is now superior, but i get this monstrum. To be honest looks like encoder have problems with bitrate distribution.It's not a bitrate distribution error, since the part you're showing is encoded at 600 kbps. There is something wrong with the QPEL, I guess ( because the black frames at the beginning are too big ).
shon3i
1st October 2006, 12:17
I found problem, looks like problem is in resize filter, because, when i first time choose resolution, recommended resolution is 720x560, but now when i select custom resolution, then back to Automatic, recode automaticly sets 560x384, with that resolution picture is fine. But when i encode again with 720x560, i again get monster.

EDIT: I am now tested without Qpel with 720x560, the answer is yes QPEL disturb qualty. So Qpel is Broken
Kostarum Rex Persia
1st October 2006, 12:17
Shon3i, try to disable QPEL when encoding the source video.

That should resolve things, perhaps.
IgorC
3rd October 2006, 02:12
So Qpel is Broken

Qpel for highest 31q for b-frames? Have no any sence. Neither minor. Qpel is already useless at half of that quantizer.
Guys, read faqs before to post that "issues".
shon3i
3rd October 2006, 08:27
Qpel for highest 31q for b-frames? Have no any sence. Neither minor. Qpel is already useless at half of that quantizer.
Guys, read faqs before to post that "issues".
OMG, stop talking bullshits. why then QPEL in DivX and XviD not create that bad quality. I using QPEL in xvid for all bitrates and i always get better picture. So something whrong with ND ASP QPEL. Try it yourself before say anything like that. I am not set q 31, i just set 700kbps bitrate an encoder use q31. Probably encoder have problkems with quantizer distribution or something like that
Manao
3rd October 2006, 08:40
Probably encoder have problkems with quantizer distribution or something like thatNop ( as I said before ). The issue is most probably a bug involving QPel.
IgorC
3rd October 2006, 14:31
OMG, stop talking bullshits.
check your terminology

why then QPEL in DivX and XviD not create that bad quality. I using QPEL in xvid for all bitrates and i always get better picture. So something whrong with ND ASP QPEL. Try it yourself before say anything like that. I am not set q 31, i just set 700kbps bitrate an encoder use q31. Probably encoder have problkems with quantizer distribution or something like that
did you try to encode the same video to xvid with and without qpel? You will surprise that Xvid+Qpel will be worse than Xvid also.
Did you know something about compressebility of source video? Bitrate doesn't mean anything. Source is quite high motion. q31 for 700 kbps is normal here.
Manao
3rd October 2006, 14:39
q31 for 700 kbps is normal hereNo it isn't.
avih
3rd October 2006, 14:49
Take it easy guys. Please watch your language and keep the discussion civilized. thx.
IgorC
3rd October 2006, 15:02
No it isn't.
Well, Manao you know better your codec. But in the case of Qpel codec will have less bitrate for image coding. On this video qpel is using something like 80 kbps of total bitrate (720x576 25fps). for 700 kbit and high motion this bitrate loss is more noticebly than sharpness introduced. Even Xvid will go such high q using Qpel.
Of course, there can be involved another bug but normal Qpel by itself can introduce a lot of artefacts in those conditions.
shon3i
3rd October 2006, 16:41
check your terminology
I want apology to IgorC and others for that word, because my brain is stopped in that moment, i and can't remeber what is right word, because my english is bad, and in this moment i don't have dictionary. The right word will be stupidity, or stupid things before consider a right thing.

did you try to encode the same video to xvid with and without qpel? You will surprise that Xvid+Qpel will be worse than Xvid also.
Did you know something about compressebility of source video? Bitrate doesn't mean anything. Source is quite high motion. q31 for 700 kbps is normal hereNo XviD with QPEL @ that bitrate have better (sharper) picture with less blocks, than without it. And like Manao say q31 for that bitrate isn't normal. In XviD maximum quantizer is 6, and picture is very smooth (have blocking but is less noticable). So ND ASP have QPEL bug with higher resolution because @ 576x320 picture encoded normaly.
chilledoutuk
6th October 2006, 10:32
In XviD maximum quantizer is 6,

I might add that the default range in xvid is 1-31 i use 2-31.

Usinf 2-6 whilst stopping encodes from ever blocking will mean the highest quant you can ever use is 6 which means that if its an hard to compress sequence you might find it hard to keep to your desireed bitrate.

The problem isnt in the resizing as what you fail to realise is that the automatic resolution is much much lower than the one your previously specified.

I suspect that the encode would also be vastly improved if you set the bitrate to say 1200kbps which would also increase your bits per a pixel.

Now that my hdtv encode has finished i will try running some tests with qpel.