PAL / NTSC Patching How ?

[xbox360]

Hello to Everyone, how do I patch a comercial DVD or a DVD made from DVD-lab PRO 2 from PAL to NTSC or vice versa ?

[blutach]

Open your DVD in IfoEdit (http://ifoedit.wh.fr0zen.com/). For each IFO, go to VTSI_MAT and double click offset 0x0200 and change it to NTSC. Save.

Note: In all likelihood, this will not work, as it does not represent a true conversion to NTSC.

Regards

[r0lZ]

This trick is really bad! As blutach said, your DVD will not work with some players. It is far better to use a player and a TV supporting PAL.
Furthermore, PAL is greatly superior to NTSC. There is absolutely no advantage in using this trick.

[negge]

To really convert the DVD from one format to another, have a look at http://www.ntsc2pal.hostrocket.com/

[setarip_old]

Is there a relatively simple methodology that can be applied by using VOBBlanker, for successful conversion, including the existing menu?

[Video Dude]

No.

For true conversion, you have to resize the frame, adjust the frame rate, and re-encode. Then either apply the pulldown method or adjust the audio time/pitch.

DVD-RB could potentially automate the process. Hopefully jdobbs will implement PAL -> NTSC sometime in the future.

[blutach]

Certainly VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm) has nothing to do with framerate conversions.

Really easiest to to get a player that plays PAL.

Regards

[setarip_old]

I saw this in a post at the "AfterDawn" forums:Rip your movie to the hard drive with DVD decrypter. Then open your newly ripped files with VOB blanker. Under the title set block (center of program window), you'll see your VOB files. The center column says "video format". My example says NTSC 4:3 720x480. If you right click on the VOB's you want to convert, then select "video attributes", you'll see a new window pop up. In this window, you can change the "standard" from PAL to NTSC and vice versa. You can even change the resolution in this window.The poster indicated successful results.

What would be the shortcoming in this procedure?

[blutach]

All that does is patch the IFOs. It does nothing to change the actual framerates and resolutions in the VOBs. This is the equivalent of the IfoEdit (http://ifoedit.wh.fr0zen.com/) "patch method", which is flaky at best (see above).

For easy framerate conversions, use Procoder 2, if you have it.

Regards

[setarip_old]

Thanks for the explanation...

[CoNS]

I have a question about PAL/NTSC conversion, too:

I have the R1 (NTSC) and R2 (PAL) versions of the same movie, but with different audio languages. I would like to take one of the audio streams from the R1 DVD and add it to the R2 DVD.

Are DVD audio streams different depending on the frame rates? In other words are they controlled by time codes or by frames?

Would it be enough simply to demux the DVDs and take the demuxed audio file I want from the R1 DVD and mux it with the stuff from the R2 DVD? Or do I need to convert the audio from NTSC to PAL frame rates, as I fear?

If conversion is needed, do I best convert the whole R1 NTSC DVD to PAL and demux the audio from the converted DVD? Or would it be to process the demuxed audio stream from the original R1 NTSC DVD etc.?

[bigotti5]

Are DVD audio streams different depending on the frame rates

Audio streams have there own frame rates independently of PAL or NTSC

PCM 600 fps (1 Frame = 1,67 ms)
AC3 31,25 fps (1 Frame = 32 ms)
MPEG 41,67 fps (1 Frame = 24 ms)
DTS 93,75 fps (1 Frame = 10,67)

Almost all film content on PAL DVDs is speeded up by 4% to fit 24 film frames to 25 PAL frames.
So you have to speed up your NTSC audio by 4% to keep audio in synch with your PAL movie.

Imho Besweet has an option to do this.

[blutach]

Yes, Besweet does this fine.

Regards

[setarip_old]

I've successfully converted a PAL DVD to NTSC, by using the "VOBBlanker method" I quoted earlier, coupled with using IFOEdit to change all remaining PAL references to NTSC in all .IFOs and .BUPs (and, of course, changing it to R1). It plays beautifully on my unbelievably "finicky" SONY NS725P.

I had to use DVD SubEdit to raise the vertical position of the subtitles. What a great little tool - it took less than two minutes from initial file loading to completion!

I have but one lingering problem that I hope someone can resolve for me. On the main/initial menu screen, the selection cursor is not visible (It is, however, visible on the "Scene Selection" and "Languages" menu screens). The buttons on the main menu screen DO function properly, it's just that you have to guess which one you've selected with the left and right arrow radiobuttons on the remote control.

If someone knows what's causing this, I'd really appreciate you sharing the information with me...

[r0lZ]

Might be a little bug in your player.
Normally, SPRM 7 holds 1024 (button 1) at startup of the DVD. If it holds 0, no button are highlighted, unless a SetHL_BTN command has been executed. Of course, in this case, the highlight should appear immediately when you press a cursor button, so the problem might be completely different.
Anyway, try to force button 1, and see if it works better. If there is still a problem, there is probably something wrong in the VOB.

[bigotti5]

On the main/initial menu screen, the selection cursor is not visible

Did you modify the position of the subpicture in the menu vob with dvdsubedit?

So maybe the button rectangle and the highlight color in subpicture does not fit any more?

[setarip_old]

Did you modify the position of the subpicture in the menu vob with dvdsubedit?Nope...

[setarip_old]

I just noticed that some of the subtitles are actually "super"titles, at the top of the image rather than at the bottom.

Is there a way to address moving both subtitles up and supertitles down with a "universal" selection in DVDSubedit - such as changing the display area?

[r0lZ]

Use the border setup (with or w/o the flush flag.)
Experiment. It's easy.

[setarip_old]

@r0lZ

Thanks, I'll check it out ;>}

**EDIT**Subtitles and Supertitles now properly aligned and visible - DVDSubEdit makes it too easy ;>}

Now, if I could only resolve the missing cursor on the main menu screen...

[blutach]

"Missing cursors" are usually the result of incorrect duration for the highlights. Go back and forth from one sub-menu to the main menu. You might see a little flash of the highlight. This indicates it has stopped too early (within an instant). Set the duration to be the same as the length of the cell and you should be right.

http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/gl2.gif

Regards

[setarip_old]

I seem to be closer to a solution regarding the menu cursor, but haven't figured out how to proceed:

If (using IFOEdit) I DON'T change the "Menu Attributes" to NTSC in the "VTS Overview" of "VTS_01_0.IFO", I get a perfectly functioning set of menus, with a properly visible and controllable cursor - in Black and White ;>}

If, instead, I DO change the "Menu Attributes" to NTSC in the "VTS Overview" of "VTS_01_0.IFO", the menus appear in their proper colors - but the (active and controllable) cursor is NOT VISIBLE.

[r0lZ]

Maybe it's because the subpic image is higher than the maximum height for NTSC. IMO, you should try to "crop subpic background" with DVDSubEdit. I'm not sure that function works correctly for the menu buttons, though...

[setarip_old]

IMO, you should try to "crop subpic background" with DVDSubEdit.Unfortunately, this had no impact...

[r0lZ]

Too bad! :(

[Rafterman]

I have converted a PAL dvd to NTSC using Nero recode and Procoder. Try and rip the DVD to your HD in 1 or 2 files or you can join the .Vobs. The results were surprisingly good. However you can forget Subtitles with this method. The method linked to above http://www.ntsc2pal.hostrocket.com/ does deal with subtitles though it is not easy as there are a lot of steps involved.

[setarip_old]

Too bad!Actually, the more I look at it, the more I'm beginning to appreciate the grayscale menu - with its visible and functional cursor ;>} Everything else about the conversion is wonderful - video, subtitle alignment, audio/video synchronization!

Now that it's worked out, it takes very little time and very few tools to do this - VOBBlanker, DVD SubEdit (wonderfully useful!), and a small dose of IFOEdit.

On to the remaining DVDs in the "Third Watch" set ;>}

[r0lZ]

Your method is simple, right, but you cannot call it "transcoding". The player thinks it plays NTSC material, although it is still in PAL format. I'm glad the trick works with your player, but you cannot be sure it will work with another one.
Anyway, when you will buy a new player, you should try a patched DVD, just to be sure...

[setarip_old]

Anyway, when you will buy a new player, you should try a patched DVD, just to be sure...Actually, it plays properly on three different "Region1 Only" players - but displays improperly (due to its true resolution) via two multi-region players when they're set to "Automatic" (Displays properly when they're set to "NTSC")...

[nix0]

Going to try this. My Tosh is a region2 player however plays NTSC, just not as DVD i.e. will play NTSC VOB okay (will play the menu as a "video stream") just doesn't do the menu functions. Hopefully this is just a region check that this will work around.

[setarip_old]

As a separate experiment, I ripped these PAL DVDs and the ONLY modification I made was to make them "all region" discs.

I attempted to play them on four different standalone players - two SONYs (425 and 725), a Philips 642/37, and an ancient GE1101P:

1) The two SONYs "laughed" and put forth an "Area limitation" error message

2) The Philips and the GE, each set to NTSC, and each connected to NTSC-only TVs, played these DVDs perfectly! No problems with picture size, position of subtitles and supertitles, menu cursor, menu color, "jerkiness", or audio/video synchronization

My conclusion is that the Philips and GE players look at ONLY the Region coding to determine playback format, the SONYs base their decisions on reading Title and/or Menu attributes...

So, once again, it's become obvious that although there may be DVD "standards", many different standalone players have many different ways of utilizing and/or interpreting them ;>}

[r0lZ]

Right, setarip. But it's even more confusing. My old Sony DVP-S725D plays region free NTSC DVDs without problem, here in PAL land. (However, the output signal is not really NTSC compliant, as there are some vertical sync problems.)

My cheap players have no problem at all.

[blutach]

Thats because it's not true NTSC r0lZ. It's effectively 60Hz PAL played on the 4.43Mhz carrier, as opposed to real NTSC on 3.58Mhz

Regards

[r0lZ]

I agree. However, I don't understand why my expensive Sony player (750€) is not able to output true NTSC, while the cheap ones have no problem. Seems it is not very expensive to add the hardware to recreate the right carrier.