can xvid be better than h.264 by better development?

[Didée]

Incredible. :)

What I meant was, if the coded bitrates are the same for the "less" and the "more" efficient codec, why the "more" efficient codec's result appears to be more flat, then?

(A: Because metric numbers say it is good to do so, yeah.)

[Sharktooth]

...and then the psy enhancements come into play... :p

[Didée]

Yep. You know, when they tried to construct "the most beautiful possible" face, from all that is known about what makes a face "appear beautiful", the result was a very beautiful face. The only imperfection was that it looked boring as hell.

But seriously ... I'll try it once more with quoting Manao:
Technically, nothing prevents you from decoding the picture, showing it, and only then deblocking it for future prediction. That way, you still get the coding efficiency but not the deblocked look that some don't like.
Manao spoke it (here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=832122#post832122)), I poked the idea in every now & then, but no reaction ever. Am I missing something?

[*.mp4 guy]

Not as far as I can tell, I would be interested in being able to do that aswell. Although it would have to be done decoder side.

[Sharktooth]

deblocking is applied also during encoding...

[akupenguin]

I poked the idea in every now & then, but no reaction ever. Am I missing something?
You're not missing anything. It's even mentioned in the standard that you might want to do that, and there's an SEI packet type to supply such a hint.

[freedom999]

the thread writer writes:
very argumentative thread
very nice and instructive thread
i got my answer overplus but this thread is going now...

i think that if i wouldn't write this thread, where would be wrote this almost good things because i learnt somethings from it.

[R3Z]

I think the problem is that there is a wide variety of what we call 'grain'. Heavy grain is quite easily kept as Sharktooth demonstrated to me recently; XviD and x264 should be able to keep it without much tweaking. On the other hand there is something that I call grain that is only perceived as a slight, flickering noise - if you're talking about that sort of grain - I also find it hard to preserve.

In any case you should disable deblocking.

Thats true, not everyone likes it either :) I just happen to be one of the peeps that loves grainy/noisy movies.

I want to stress the fact the fine noise is not grain, and obviously less compression efficient codecs (MPEG-4 ASP, MPEG-2 or even MPEG-1) can keep that noise much better than AVC.
The same topics appeared when first MPEG-4 codecs (divx and xvid) appeared. People was criticizing the noise removal nature of the codec.
However noise can just be re-added during playback. While grain is much more difficult to reproduce.

I would like to make it clear that i am not criticising the codecs, its just when you are told you are doing something wrong you have to try and figure out what.

Xvid already has a post-processing film effect option but x264 doesnt, i wonder how easy it would be to add ? Also wondering whether or not it possible to encode files with a flag to tell the decoder to turn on a film effect ?

[Sharktooth]

well ffdshow, vlc, mplayer, etc... can add various kind of noise during AVC playback.
CoreAVC hasnt it though.

[R3Z]

well ffdshow, vlc, mplayer, etc... can add various kind of noise during AVC playback.
CoreAVC hasnt it though.

Yeah i was aware of those, but was hoping that it could be included within the x264 codec, as i read here that there is a provision within x264 to enable it upon playback. :sly:

If i was any sort of a programer i would have a go myself :(

[Blue_MiSfit]

I just have ffdshow process YV12 :)

Then I can do whatever I want. In fact, I frequently add 5-10 luma noise and 3-7 chroma noise. Helps with AVC a lot. I agree though that ASP tends to preserve what I call "grain" better than x264. Of course, it's all highly source dependant...

Just my 2 cents.

~MiSfit