Nero Recode

[frodeste]

Does anyone one when a new version of Nero Recode is ready for launch? (or beta testing for that matter)

[LiFe]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=852800#post852800

Hopefully it's still on track - and hopefully we get a few new things like VBR_Q audio and video as well as interlacing...

[frodeste]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=852800#post852800

Hopefully it's still on track - and hopefully we get a few new things like VBR_Q audio and video as well as interlacing...
Yeah, I read that thread. Interesting.

I hope they launch soon, as I am really looking forward to testing this.

If Nero needs beta testers, then I will be glad to help.

[acidsex]

Well I have seen Nero 7.5 Reloaded this past week and sadly, I must say the output if the High Profile frankly...sucks. One thing that will make some people happy is the ability to boost audio to high volume or very high volume.

I was very disappointed though. This is no where near the quality output we had when we beta tested ateme's codec and the supposed improvement of the ASP codec left alot to be desired as well. WAY too many artifacts in the High Profile using the 8x8 Transform option and remains very newbieish (cant configure much still).

By the results I have seen using 7.2.x.x, main profile certainly produces better results than the high profile in 7.5.0.2 Good thing its still beta as many will be just as disappointed.

[shon3i]

Well I have seen Nero 7.5 Reloaded this past week and sadly, I must say the output if the High Profile frankly...sucks. One thing that will make some people happy is the ability to boost audio to high volume or very high volume.

I was very disappointed though. This is no where near the quality output we had when we beta tested ateme's codec and the supposed improvement of the ASP codec left alot to be desired as well. WAY too many artifacts in the High Profile using the 8x8 Transform option and remains very newbieish (cant configure much still).

By the results I have seen using 7.2.x.x, main profile certainly produces better results than the high profile in 7.5.0.2 Good thing its still beta as many will be just as disappointed.
Indeed, i think that, but i not participate in ateme beta test, ateme's beta encoder is in cli app which probably have same command line like x264, with many commands, which mean more tweaking codec, and must have better quality, and nero recode are restrict to Nero Digital profiles and who knows how many restrictions encoder have. Can you PM me to tell me where you find nero 7.5. Thanks

[acidsex]

I dont have access to it. I have a friend who is testing it and showed me the quality output and a few screen grabs. Word has it that it is out there on the net and groups so if someone wanted to find a copy it shouldnt be that hard to locate but I dont recommend pirating in any sense.

He did comment and say that in Nero Vision they know inlcude Blu Ray and HD DVD file sizes which leads me to believe that authoring support is near if not included at this point.

[acidsex]

also forgot to add that apparently 7.5 has a plugin installed that allows for rendering Nero Digital from Premiere Pro 2.0 timeline.

[lexor]

well considering that according to that beta test thread, Ateme charges over $2k for the codec, I don't see how anyone could expect the full thing to be included in Recode, they are certainly gonna have a dumbed down version.

[McoreD]

I've also heard a bit about Nero 7 Reloaded. Looks like it comes bundled with Nero Recode version 2.3.1.8. But to 'when it is going to release' I am not sure.

[Danisan]

So this new version of Nero contains the updated Ateme encoder?

[acidsex]

So this new version of Nero contains the updated Ateme encoder?


Yes but a VERY poor implmentation of it. Ill pass for now.

[frodeste]

Yes but a VERY poor implmentation of it. Ill pass for now.
But will the new version (or the one in beta) have quality equivelant of the current versions for "non-high" profiles?

The one thing that bugs me the most about the current version is how it messes up the soundlevel when going from ac3 to aac.

[sjchmura]

This is a shame. The current main profile is, quite often, superior in quality to some the the x264 profiles espeically at moderate bit rates. The "low" psychovisual enhancments really add to picture quality. HD looks great transcoded at 4mbit. x264 definitly with the high profile wins at very low bit rates. But then again, with DVD5's being practically free now, I don't reall care

[JohnV]

Yes but a VERY poor implmentation of it. Ill pass for now.
It's not an implementation, it's integration. So it should achieve the same quality, if not, there's problem in integration which either are already or will be fixed, but people shouldn't draw conclusions based on some possibly old leaked version in the net..

[frodeste]

I will make my own judgement on the product once I have it in my hands.

And that, I am very much looking forward to!

[shon3i]

It's not an implementation, it's integration. So it should achieve the same quality, if not, there's problem in integration which either are already or will be fixed, but people shouldn't draw conclusions based on some possibly old leaked version in the net..
Why not just provide us CLI version like is Nero AAC. And all ppls are be happy

[Dark Eiri]

I don't think Recode is actually a great piece of software. The encoder, Ateme, is. I do like frontends that let me change every single aspect of the encode I'm doing, like MeGUI. Recode is just "Add the files, choose any pre-configured profile and let it go the way Nero thinks it will be good". I really don't like this. It should have some Advanced Configurations tabs to configure it properly.
I would love to see a Ateme frontend like MeGUI (the MeGUI itself, could use the Nero-bundled Ateme?).

[odditory]

I've also heard a bit about Nero 7 Reloaded. Looks like it comes bundled with Nero Recode version 2.3.1.8. But to 'when it is going to release' I am not sure.

I've done some encodes with the new recode 2.3.1.8 (i found the nero 7.5.0.2. package in the newsgroups and, being a registered user of the web-purchased version, I don't see the harm in my action even though it's a leaked version, since the upgrade would be free to registered users anyway .. my key worked in the 7.5.0.2 installer so I assumed its all good).

I can confirm after testing on two identically configured 3.2ghz dual core systems:

A) The output quality of Nero AVC encodes is noticably visually better than the prior version of recode (i transcoded a DVD to a 1.5mbps MP4 with 2-pass in cinema-profile and played it back in windows media center edition). Things like jaggies and motion blur during fast scenes that were evident in the file produced by the prior version of recode were practically non-existent in recode 2.3.1.8.

B) Recode 2.3.1.8 utilized both cores when encoding Nero AVC (the prior recode version always hit the 50% ceiling in task manager's performance tab since the encoder wasn't multithreaded).

c) w/ recode 2.3.1.8 the the low-sound-level problem with AC3 -> AAC audio appeared to be fixed in the file that the newer version produced. The output file produced by the prior version had the lower sound level. I also noticed the drop down for 3-levels of audio boost that can be applied prior to an encode for the AAC conversion. I didn't change from the default setting however.

d) I've been bitching about batch encoding but have come to realize in the new (and even the current publicly available recode) that you can in fact batch-process multiple dvd titles, with the "Recode DVDs and Videos to Nero Digital" option when you first launch recode. (By accident) I found you can just keep importing titles one after the next when you set up the job, and it will encode them one after the next! It auto-names the output file based on the name of the dvd title, so its not a single file that the multiple titles outputs to as I first thought.

I'm a happy camper.

I'll post anything else I find.

[Hans Ohlo]

can you say something about speed improvements, especially due to multithreding?

[sjchmura]

Also is the VC1 encoder included that Microsoft mistakenly announced was "coming" to Nero soon??

I for one will be very excited if the quality - espcially the "tearing" in fast motion scenes is improved. The decoders are great under MCE and the package WILL be worth the $80 paid if, as JohnV has tested, the crashing on ceartain HD clips is really fixed, quality improved, and SPEED to use our dual cores.

I hope this is a free upgrade to registered users who purchased Nero 7 in the last few months....

[LiFe]

I for one will be very excited if the quality - espcially the "tearing" in fast motion scenes is improved.

The tearing is caused during playback and does not exist in the encoded file.

Google video tearing to look at the many ways of fixing this.

The easiest being to change the playback method (ie Overlay / VRML 7).

The other, to enable VSYNC.

[berrinam]

I would love to see a Ateme frontend like MeGUI (the MeGUI itself, could use the Nero-bundled Ateme?).
If someone made a commandline version of the nero encoder which accepted avisynth input, I would be happy to add it to MeGUI. However, we wouldn't be allowed to distribute the encoder, for licensing reasons, so it would require some manual setup, as well as a full version of recode.

[bond]

If someone made a commandline version of the nero encoder which accepted avisynth input, I would be happy to add it to MeGUI. However, we wouldn't be allowed to distribute the encoder, for licensing reasons, so it would require some manual setup, as well as a full version of recode.i dont think nero has an interest in that

[bratao]

Now we see a Nero Burning ROM 7.2.7.0

ftp://ftp.us.nero.com/software/nero7/Nero-7.2.7.0_all.exe

any info about this version ?

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

So, Nero released 7.2.7.0, hmmm... I suppose that ther main release, Nero 7.5 will be released about 20th september.

With new features and newest Ateme High Profile H.264 codec.

[sjchmura]

The tearing is caused during playback and does not exist in the encoded file.

Google video tearing to look at the many ways of fixing this.

The easiest being to change the playback method (ie Overlay / VRML 7).

The other, to enable VSYNC.

No, it is tearing in the video. When you take a 1080i film source and convert to say 720p it clearly is doing a poor job of IVTC. MEGUI is nearly perfect with its "suggestions" as to how best to IVTC/Deinterlace.

VRM9 works well, accelerated h264 with 93.45 drivers and Purevideo and Nero 7. There is no "tearing" when the same fast motion scene is converted wtih MEGUI/x264 AVC.

[ndkamal]

Originally Posted by Kostarum Rex Persia
So, Nero released 7.2.7.0, hmmm... I suppose that ther main release, Nero 7.5 will be released about 20th september.

With new features and newest Ateme High Profile H.264 codec.

Where have you had this date for Nero 7.5 ?
It can be in october or later.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Where have you had this date for Nero 7.5 ?
It can be in October or later.

I don't know exact date, of course. I am only assuming release date, because in July, I read somewhere that Nero will release next major version(which is 7.5) somewhere in September.

[shon3i]

Where have you had this date for Nero 7.5 ?
It can be in october or later.
On the news side:
The Nero update in September will have updated Nero Digital/Ateme AVC high profile codec (the above comparison uses the old codec build). I have Recode2 version with HP 8x8 transform support installed in my HD, so it is a sure thing finally.

Also, the Nero Digital ASP codec will get a quality boost which will give DivX and XviD a run for their money: Ateme is providing an updated ASP codec, though I'm not sure if it will make it already to the September update, but if not, in any case will be included soon after.

In addition Recode2 will get a nice audio quality update, since the new Nero Digital audio codec (which was also released as free stand-alone commandline software earlier) will be used in the upcoming September Recode2 for encoding the mp4 audio.

Use search you can find very good inforamtions

[sjchmura]

Is it simple to tell (based on the predefined profiles) when you have chosen High Profil vs. Main? Is it "cryptic" like "cinema" and "tv" or whatever? Can you define your own Profiles?

ANY more people that can comment on the 7.5 quality???

[ChronoCross]

you'll have lots of n00bies posting once it's actually released. I'd wait awhile before anyone judges it.

Mainstream will decide whether it works

[fight2win]

nero 7.5.0.2 is leaked on many blogs and on the internet for download, it has nero recode 2.3.1.8, which has nero avc high profile encoding, i have seen this with my own eyes...

[ChronoCross]

nero 7.5.0.2 is leaked on many blogs and on the internet for download, it has nero recode 2.3.1.8, which has nero avc high profile encoding, i have seen this with my own eyes...

it's probably not the final version either. even so you shouldn't be using a non-0released products for quality testing as they may still have bugs.....hence why it's at 7.5.0.2.

Once the mainstream release is ready then we can judge the helll out of it. which I'm sure most of us will.

[ndkamal]

I see an article about the new version of Nero, it's called Nero 7 Premium Reloaded, with new features especially in multimedia section and thus a new recode version :) . It's for this month.
The Link (in french) : http://www.clubic.com/actualite-38098-nero-7-premium-reloaded.html

[sjchmura]

JohnV, since these articles are coming are you at liberty to talk about for sure features etc??

[acidsex]

I dont see why he couldnt since I have already seen the said retail boxes on shelves so I guess its officially been released.

[dvd_maniac]

Hey Acid,

Did you see Nero 7 Premium "Reloaded" or just Nero 7 Premium? If so, Where did you see it?

For anyone who knows or has played with it:
Does recode support dual-core procs?
Would be nice to get the speed increase and stop letting the second core just sleep after paying so much for it.

[acidsex]

I have seen at Best Buy and Walmart and its called Nero 7 Ultra Enhanced.

[dvd_maniac]

I tried calling both stores in my area and both were out of stock.
I called Nero CS and they said September 18th was the official Web release date. I guess I will keep using X264 until then.

[greggerm]

..just 10 days from now... a short wait compared to the time we've been looking forward to it. :)

[sjchmura]

Can people talk (who have now bought it or used their purchased keys) how the AVC stuff has changed? For example, can you
1. Output a HD-DVD compliant stream
2. Is it doing a better job goign from OTA 1080i ->720p (IVTC in the old one was horrible)
3. Quality...

[LiFe]

The pple who buy box are unlikely to use the web to any great degree, and certainly not likely to view this forum. Anyone reading this deep into a thread on this forum would only ever consider a downloadable product.

[sjchmura]

Thank you for the psychology lesson. That was so very helpful.

[LiFe]

Looks like you need a lesson in manners as well.

[greggerm]

Now, now, gentlemen....
My tracking subscription to this thread is useless if all I'm going to do is get an email alert each time you two go back and forth.

From above posts, the download version may be available as early as Monday. I personally haven't seen any boxed versions in my area. Let's just wait a bit and see what happens...

-Greg

[sjchmura]

I was reading some blog postings and on dual core CPU's - even with the new HIGH profile - the speed seems superior to the older MAIN profile maxed out. The blogger used all settings EXCEPT for 8x8 transofrm...

1. What do you thing tyhe transform defaults to
2. At anything buy ultra low bit rates with 8x8 make a difference?

THis was running on anintel 840 (dual core - not AMD) so I will test it. I HOPE this is FREE for all of use who bought 7.2

[Student Driver]

Also, I got an email from Craig Campbell, one of their support people, and he stated that there are new profiles to support the new iPod with video resolutions.

[JohnV]

Also, I got an email from Craig Campbell, one of their support people, and he stated that there are new profiles to support the new iPod with video resolutions.

Yes, though the really new 5.5G IPod profile will be added soon.

[Student Driver]

Bummer, that's what I was asking him for in the email. I hope that's soon, as in real soon. :)

[Dark Eiri]

Any plans for Nero to release a "out of Recode" version for the codecs? It would be great if we could use other encoders.

[sjchmura]

JohnV,

When can you talk about the features, show us some test samples etc. I can't wait to try the dual core features ( I REALLY hope my 43 day old serial number is still good)...

[bratao]

Now the underground come with Nero 7 Premium v7.5.1.1 Multilanguage.
Is this the Release ?

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

I really don't know how the underground (bloody hackers) get Nero 7.5.01, and now 7.5.1.1.

That's very strange. There is must be some sort of spy in Ahead, who works with hackers.

[Taxidermista]

I really don't know how the underground (bloody hackers) get Nero 7.5.01, and now 7.5.1.1.

That's very strange. There is must be some sort of spy in Ahead, who works with hackers.

Well, it's in the stores right now, isn't it? No need of insiders.

[Dark Eiri]

This 7.5.1.1 will accept my Nero 7.0 key? If it accepts, then, any problem in trying it myself? I want to see the new Recode :D

[dvd_maniac]

I really, really hope that this version of Showtime allows the chapters to work correctly in MP4 files. The N and P keys do not change the chapters like they do while playing DVDs and this really stinks when using a remote control.

[nurbs]

In case anyone is interested, Nero 7.5.1.1 is available at nero.com. (Well, at least the german version is. I didn't check international.)

[Sharktooth]

downloading... they also added an official bittorrent download :)

[Taxidermista]

am I missing something or there is no HD-DVD/Blu-Ray authoring in Nero Vision?

[Sharktooth]

Maybe it's only in Ultra Edition license? I stopped with nero 6 so i dont know how the new licenses look like.
If this 7.5 is a good release (im downloading the trial) maybe ill buy it.

[simonhowson]

downloading... they also added an official bittorrent download :) Where's a official torrent file, I can't find it on Nero's webpage

[shon3i]

Finaly Ateme HP. I am now downloading

[Dark Eiri]

Downloading now. I want to see if the Ateme HP really matches x264 =P

[Sharktooth]

Where's a official torrent file, I can't find it on Nero's webpage
Download Mirrors...

http://www.nero.com/nero7/eng/Nero_7_Full_Installer.php

[Sharktooth]

However here's a pic showing the 8x8 Transform option:
http://www.webalice.it/f.corriga/temp/recode_hp.png
The bad news is there are much less advanced options (FGM, CQM, etc) that were in the Ateme beta encoder i tested.

[Jay Bee]

I can't install it. :( SetupX.exe just hangs there in Task Manager, doesn't do anything, even in safe mode.

BTW, does it support interlaced AVC encoding?

[greggerm]

The bad news is there are much less advanced options (FGM, CQM, etc) that were in the Ateme beta encoder i tested.

I believe they mentioned this would be an "implementation" of the Ateme codec, not an out-and-out full version of it.

Either way - I just did a test encode with the new Recode, using Best (not extra) quality and no 8x8 transform (*not entirely sure what it does), but the encoder FLYS on my dual core Ath64 3800+.

I'm not benchmarking the difference, but it's a noticable one.

-Greg

(Where can I find the novices guide to what 8x8 transforms are useful for, or can someone give a short and sweet answer?)

[dvd_maniac]

I believe they mentioned this would be an "implementation" of the Ateme codec, not an out-and-out full version of it.

Either way - I just did a test encode with the new Recode, using Best (not extra) quality and no 8x8 transform (*not entirely sure what it does), but the encoder FLYS on my dual core Ath64 3800+.

I'm not benchmarking the difference, but it's a noticable one.

-Greg

(Where can I find the novices guide to what 8x8 transforms are useful for, or can someone give a short and sweet answer?)

Hey Greg,
Been missing you over on Sage forum. Was hoping you'd do a little tweaking of STV once 5.1 comes out.

Well as far as 8x8 questions goes, I found the following
pdf file (http://www.cdt.luth.se/~peppar/kurs/smd151/spie04-h264OverviewPaper.pdf)
Each picture is compressed by partitioning it as one or more slices; each slice consists of macroblocks, which
are blocks of 16x16 luma samples with corresponding chroma samples. However, each macroblock is also divided into
sub-macroblock partitions for motion-compensated prediction. The prediction partitions can have seven different sizes –
16x16, 16x8, 8x16, 8x8, 8x4, 4x8 and 4x4. In past standards, motion compensation used entire macroblocks or, in the
case of newer designs, 16x16 or 8x8 partitions, so the larger variety of partition shapes provides enhanced prediction
accuracy. The spatial transform for the residual data is then either 8x8 (a size supported only in FRExt) or 4x4. In past
major standards, the transform block size has always been 8x8, so the 4x4 block size provides an enhanced specificity in
locating residual difference signals. The block size used for the spatial transform is always either the same or smaller
than the block size used for prediction.

[shon3i]

What about new ASP codec, is it improved?


Too bad for CQM.

[lordx]

Hi

I've test an encoding of an mpeg2 TS HDTV with this new nero recode.
Mpeg2 1920/1088 Ts was 10Go. I've set HDTV AVC, 5Mb bitrate, resize 1280/720, some crop, and all recode options , 8x8 transform to.
Speed was great on my X2 3800+ , first pass 18 fps, second pass 5 fps.

And ... big problem : final mp4 file size : 22 Go !!!!!

Log :

Source:
Size (1920,1088)
Display Aspect Ratio (1920,1088)
Deinterlace enabled
Cropping enabled (4, 172, 4, 144)
Resizing enabled (1280,720)
Pixel ratio (1,1)
Bitrate: 4995775 bps

Watermark disabled
19:32:28 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 918
Nth-pass file = C:\DOCUME~1\Julien\LOCALS~1\Temp\\hdtva02388.bin

19:32:30 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1194
NeroDigital: waiting for graph to complete

14:35:21 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1290
graph completed successfully

14:35:23 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 484
NeroDigital: finished two-pass encoding

14:35:23 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 608
NeroDigital: Compiling volume completed successfully

14:35:23 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 638
NeroDigital: begin burn operation

14:35:23 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 225
NeroDigital: exit


I expect a smaller size lol !! With x264, size was 5 Go !
Seems to be buggy .

[Taxidermista]

Hi

I've test an encoding of an mpeg2 TS HDTV with this new nero recode.
Mpeg2 1920/1088 Ts was 10Go. I've set HDTV AVC, 5Mb bitrate, resize 1280/720, some crop, and all recode options , 8x8 transform to.
Speed was great on my X2 3800+ , first pass 18 fps, second pass 5 fps.

And ... big problem : final mp4 file size : 22 Go !!!!!


Yeah, same here. I've encoded Elephants Dream looking for a total size of 700 MB (8 Mbps) and the video ended with 1.5 GB. :scared:

[foxyshadis]

Dang it, I just updated to 7.2 the day before yesterday. I should have waited. >.> Oh well, very interested in at least testing the new one, even if the lack of FGM (and apparently, rate control) is a major disappointment.

[sjchmura]

Wow:

Intel 3GHZ dual core
2GB RAM

1080i TS ATSC source (Battlestar from NBC HD) -> 720p (Cinema Highest profile - I did NOT turn on 8x8, used BEST)

Wow. So damn fast. I am getting 13FPS first pass, 5FPS second pass. I set the output (45minutes total) to be 1.4GB and it hit that quite well (1.42 final).

So far I am impressed

[Taxidermista]

Slow as x264 and VC-1 here. 1080p Elephants Dream source -> 1080p with all settings turn on: 1.5 fps on my Athlon64 X2 @ 4800+

Not very impressed. :)

[ChronoCross]

use the torrent...else it's gonna take you between 5-8 hours to download.

[agressiv]

Two major changes I've noticed that are awesome with 7.5:

[nerovolume.jpg]

No more quiet Nero files! I've tested this and the "very loud" setting seems to work fine, and I noticed no distortion.

[nerothreads.jpg]

The AVC encoder is multithreaded now, so for those of you will dual core or hyperthreading, you should notice a substantial speed improvement. ASP is still single-threaded though.

agressiv

[sjchmura]

I think we need to compare quality and speed from the previous version. The high profile is now FASTER on the dual core then the MAin Profile on its own.

We need a quality comparison between x264 and Nero and then talk about speed. I am quite stunned at the great (and simple) output I get with this first encode.

[Sharktooth]

Slow as x264 and VC-1 here. 1080p Elephants Dream source -> 1080p with all settings turn on: 1.5 fps on my Athlon64 X2 @ 4800+

Not very impressed. :)
Setting sliders all the way to the right, or putting higher numbers in settings will rise encoding time for a questionable increase of PSNR... :p

[lordx]

Well, I've started a new encoding of the same ts but without 8x8 Transform, and in Cinema Mode ( not HDTV ... 'cause 1280/720 is the best for my projector). in extra quality, 2 pass, 5 Mb bitrate, ... all options on.

Will see the result tomorrow.
First pass actually perform at .. 19fps !!!

[Dark Eiri]

About the same speed for x264, here. 14fps 1st pass, 4 ~ 6fps 2nd pass for 1280 x 720. Didn't tested deeply to compare with x264 but I don't believe there is a lot of difference. Can someone do a deep comparison? It would be great. I don't know exactly a lot, so I'll not even try =/

[Jay Bee]

There is still no interlaced support!

Here's an over 19 month old quote:



One thing that'd be good is to get the support of interlaced encoding soon :)
I've seen a request earlier in that thread about getting a scripting language to allow complex deinterlacing...

But there is nothing wrong with interlacing! If the source is interlaced then encode it interlaced! If you want to play it on a progressive screen then it is up to the software/hardware to handle the deinterlacing to 50/60fps. (deinterlacing to 25fps in my opinion just ruins the fluid motion of the video).

I hope we can include interlaced encoding soon. Technically it is ready now.

[acidsex]

I have learned to take everything that any software company says anymore with a grain of salt. We will get interlaced encoding in Nero 8 which will obviously cost users another upgrade. Personally I dont even know why I even bother anymore. They keep throwing useless crap (Nero Mobile and Sipps) instead of giving us what the heck we want which is a way to archive HD quality streams for playback anywhere anytime with interlaced support. It wouldnt surprise me if they are waiting on x264 to integrate it before they finally do.

[dvd_maniac]

did a few encode test using standard AVC and cinema AVC and everytime I use 2-pass the filesize is WAY higher then i set it for...

[vigi_lante]

Version number 2.3.1.8

Release Date: 09/18/2006
New Features

* Supports H.264/AVC High Profile encoding
* Supports Sony PSP® H.264/AVC
* Encodes video files to iPod® and PSP™
* Improved support for interlaced encoding
* Multi-threading support in the encoder
* Audio volume correction

I thought interlace had been added... : (

[greggerm]

Agreed -
On a 480 MB expected encode, I am getting final file sizes in the 2.1 GB range. Not good....

[LiFe]

In Recode's style, I think you'll find that there are no interlace specific options. You will need to provide it with an interlaced source that it can autodetect, and it shouldn't deinterlace it before encoding.

Not speaking from experience here, so you'll have to test it.

[Jay Bee]

In Recode's style, I think you'll find that there are no interlace specific options. You will need to provide it with an interlaced source that it can autodetect, and it shouldn't deinterlace it before encoding.

Not speaking from experience here, so you'll have to test it.

That's what I did. It detected as interlaced and claimed I could "improve" the quality by deinterlacing, which I deactivated of course. The resulting file was not recognized as interlaced by CoreAVC.

Version number 2.3.1.8

Release Date: 09/18/2006
New Features

* Supports H.264/AVC High Profile encoding
* Supports Sony PSP® H.264/AVC
* Encodes video files to iPod® and PSP™
* Improved support for interlaced encoding
* Multi-threading support in the encoder
* Audio volume correction(

Odd. Maybe they are talking about the ASP encoder?

[anybody]

Encoding a 2hr. Video with the AVC Standard Profile (didn't even notice a High Profile being available ?!?) resulted in a 3GB filesize instead of the 700MB it should have been.

Great release :-)

(On a more positive side: Processing speed with dual core cpus certainly has increased noticably)

[JarrettH]

No one download until they fix this oversize problem :eek:

[frodeste]

Just a FYI: No Vista support yet. :mad:

Anyone succeeded with installing it anyway?

[JohnV]

A patch for the oversize problem is planned to be released asap. I'll post more information, when I get.

[lordx]

Thanks JohnV

[greggerm]

@JohnV
Indeed - thanks for the heads up!
-Greg

[Selur]

In earlier versions of nero recode I could load an .avs script as video input and now it doesn't work anymore. I can select the source in the add title dialog and even preview/scrtoll through it in that dialog but I can't add it as source.

Anyone else got this problem? Or could it be that I change something in my system that could cause this?

Cu Selur

[Jumbie]

Hi guys. I was curious about this oversize problem some are reporting and so made a short DV clip around 4 minutes which was about 900 MB in size.

Just did a straight encode in Recode 2.3.1.8 to HDTV-AVC with a target size of 70 MB and it came out at 69.6 MB so no problem there for me. Left the audio settings at default and changed video settings to Deinterlace, Automatic Crop and Resize Off. I'd normally do this using Avisynth but just wanted to test the program itself.

Left all encoding settings as default except for changing it to do a 2-pass instead of 1 and turned off Deblocking.

[greggerm]

Jumbie - my tests with small files seemed to turn out OK - I encoded a 0:30 sec commercial and it was perfectly sized. I tried a full length movie twice (Cinema AVC, in both 5.1 and stereo sound, both 2 passes) and it was grossly oversized.

Thankfully, Nero seems to be aware of the issue and is working on a fix. I've been itching to move from the v6 series to the v7 series, and this release was the one I did it on. *Ouch!*

-Greg

[VincentNguyen]

I would appreciate one clarification on Recode : can the output be used with anything else but Nero Digital player ?

Specifically, could they be used with a BD or HD-DVD player

Ideally, Nero Recode should give us the straight option to Burn an HD-DVD or BD disc standard, but using a regular DVD-9 media :-)

[LiFe]

A patch for the oversize problem is planned to be released asap. I'll post more information, when I get.

What is truly comical about Nero, is that not only do they have major bugs in every release of their software, but they continue with their current methods, which produce software with large bugs in each release.

I don't blame the programmers. We have some brilliant in house programmers, and a professional tester, but every time they do dept testing before a major release I find a show stopper, simply because I know every detail about the tools that I use, and I use them on a massive data set with infinate variables.

They know generally how the entire program works, and they test it on a subset of test data.

You'd think Ahead would grow a brain and create a decent set of beta testers?

Here's to 7.5.1.2. And 7.6.1.2 when the next round of new features come out.

[VincentNguyen]

which raises another question: how to ensure I can force Recode to KEEP the regular AC3 audio track ?

I'd like to stick with AC3 and DTS, as this the only way it will be transmitted to an amp in SPDIF.

[lordx]

Vincent, personnaly I'm encoding into mp4, without audio and merge the Ac3 with mkvmerge to obtain a mkv .
Video with Nero
Audio untouched
Merged into mkv
Playback perfect with CoreAVC codec and AC3filter to my amp in spdif. Player's theatertek or mpc.

[Jumbie]

Jumbie - my tests with small files seemed to turn out OK - I encoded a 0:30 sec commercial and it was perfectly sized. I tried a full length movie twice (Cinema AVC, in both 5.1 and stereo sound, both 2 passes) and it was grossly oversized.

Okay. I was half-wondering if that might turn out to be the case and looks like it was.

Thankfully, Nero seems to be aware of the issue and is working on a fix.

Hope that's released soon because, while I don't plan to do any encodes right now, I will have some material to work with in a month or so.

I've been itching to move from the v6 series to the v7 series, and this release was the one I did it on. *Ouch!*

-Greg
Don't you love how life works out like that sometimes... *sigh*

[lordx]

Hope this fix will be out fast, 'cause I need to encode HDTV ... no more disk space

[shon3i]

A patch for the oversize problem is planned to be released asap. I'll post more information, when I get.
Did you have plans to seperate Recode in seperate download, like Recode SE.

[Sharktooth]

@JohnV: Just a question: Do you (nero guys) test your softwares before putting them up on your servers for public download? I know you are "time constrained" but i asked that coz it isnt the first time nero products come with stupid problems... for that reason i stopped buying your products long time ago...

PS: sorry if it sounds somewhat offending but it's not meant to offend, i only need to know if i can trust nero again or not...

[Taxidermista]

A patch for the oversize problem is planned to be released asap. I'll post more information, when I get.

JohnV, what about HD-DVD/Blu-Ray authoring? an Ultra edition maybe?

[lordx]

My second encode is finished
Same as before without 8x8 and Cinema Profile instead HDTV.
Result : not 22 Go this time but 11 Go , and expecting 5 go ....

Stopping now and waiting for patch ....

[SoleBastard]

This 'oversize problem' is absolutely amazing! Another 'major release' with a glaring bug... :( If such a problem crops up on such a large scale on the first day of release then there must be something wrong with the bug testing/beta program? Or am I being naieve here?

Ah well, on the bright side, its not as bad as deleting your C:\ root Nero Burning ROM 6.0 managed to perform! ;)

[bond]

is 8x8dct really the only high profile options added?

[dvd_maniac]

is 8x8dct really the only high profile options added?

Nope, they also added a way to automatically increase filesize...

[lordx]

:d :d :d

[ChronoCross]

Recode cannot import .mp4 audio files made with the free nero encoder......which is always nice. It also can't import .AC3 for recoding. Recode is damn near useless at the moment even for testing.

[agressiv]

Other than the file size problem with AVC (Which didnt exist in the leaked beta)

My gripes:

Hitting CTRL-ALT-DEL (and just hitting escape) resets the current encoding process (and truncates the file) when doing AVC encodes. ASP encodes don't have this problem.

agressiv

[shon3i]

Oversize is too big, i encode DVD, target filesize is 695MB, i get 980MB, but film looks more grainy like XviD, more than x264 for same size with same deblocking, bframe, references, mv range and other options, looks damn good.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

JohnV, please say something. After all, you work for Nero and only you can explain H.264 oversize problem.

[ChronoCross]

We need some more people testing......does disabling bframes (set to 0) work? Doesn't for me.

also AQ doesn't seem to particularly work either.

[ChronoCross]

JohnV, please say something. After all, you work for Nero and only you can explain H.264 oversize problem.

he already said ti was broken. a fix is forthcoming. please read the thread before posting

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

You are right, ChronoCross. Sorry.

I only hope that JohnV will release only a patch. I don't want to download Nero 7.5 again.

[shon3i]

We need some more people testing......does disabling bframes (set to 0) work? Doesn't for me.

also AQ doesn't seem to particularly work either.
I am now testing with shorter (apple trailers) clips

[sjchmura]

Btw, I thought nero would default to directshow filters for NeroVision and Recode. However, it cannot import MKV files (AVC+AC3).

I thought it was designed to use the installed Directshow decoders/.ax if nero did not have one built in to allow flexibility in transcoding media?

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

John V, what about Nero Digital Pro package? Last version is from year 2005?

[agressiv]

Single Pass AVC gave the correct file size for me on a full-length movie. Its just the two-pass that is causing the oversize.

YMMV

agressiv

[sjchmura]

Yeah, short stuff is fine but 2-pass is broken :(

So the "leaked" version did not have these problems - amazing.

Again, can't nero let the people with legit product keys that encode alot of stuff test this before release?

I am also a bit shocked thast recode (nor Nerovision) allows importing AC3 or MKV. I thought it would be great to encode AC3 files from dvd concert tracks (U2 Live in 2005 is a great DVD - was at thast concert in chicago btw :)

[DarkZell666]

Well, I'm doing a test encode right now, and I must say I'm not very impressed by the speed ...

I'm on a 2Ghz P4, with good quality ram.
Encoding an anime episode, downsized to 512*384 (with no filtering at all), using the Cinema AVC profile with maxref=3, maxbframes=3, all encoding tools enabled, and default "quality" setting (the slider) :
1st Pass : 45fps (I said w00t at first ...)
2nd Pass : 5fps ... way behind x264, sorry.

Audio target is HE-AAC/64kbps/32000Hz.

I've been victim of the oversize problem too on another test I did yesterday, asking for a 60Mb episode gave me a 190MB episode ... wow !

Edit :Ok, the encode I was trying to do failed : the encoding progress stalled half an hour after the beginning of the 2nd pass.
In fact, it stalled when my expected 60MB were reached, and wouldn't encode further (I checked the filesize with F5 every now-and-again).
I let it run an extra 30minutes just to be sure and indeed the filesize hadn't changed.

Edit2 : Was using Nero Recode 2.3.1.8 (the one available in Nero7's update I downloaded yesterday).

[Skuto]

maxref=3

That just makes the encoder assslow without any quality gain. Use maxref=1.

[DarkZell666]

That just makes the encoder assslow without any quality gain. Use maxref=1.

It isn't the case with x264 anyway, using maxref 4 or 5 gives me like 8-10fps on second pass with similar settings.

Thx, will try (if nero stops stalling once past target filesize ... xD)

[sjchmura]

Deblocking Strenght: Negative values are less deblocking (with 0 being the default) I presume??? This would be similar to x264. THe default is -2

[dvd_maniac]

Maybe it's just me but I tried a comparison between this version of Recode and X264 using Staxrip. Both using 1-pass.
I left all the settings at default except for audio which i put to 40kbps and ref frames to 5. In Staxrip I used 512x384 on a Smallville 43 minute episode and it came out to 159MB and looked pretty good 7.5 out of 10.
I then tried a 1-pass in Recode with the same file and put the filesize to 159 using Standard AVC, 40kbps audio, Ref Frames 2. The crop was the same but Recode's resolution was 400x304. Now I figure that if both programs are using the same filesize on the same video using pretty comparable codecs and settings would have comparable results. But I would rate the 1-Pass Recode at a 5.

[ChronoCross]

That just makes the encoder assslow without any quality gain. Use maxref=1.

yeah umm wrong.

[sjchmura]

ChronoCross - can you explain this???? Why at any decent bitrate will a higher maxref matter? I thought it was only relevant at lower bitrates?

[ChronoCross]

it can and does make a difference. Just look at some of the SSIM and PSNR tests that have been done. It may have less of effect on higher bitrates but the quality gain is still noticeable.

[DarkZell666]

Well, I've resorted to 1-pass.

Same source, 512*384, with a destination bitrate of 290kbps and maxed out settings (Cinema AVC profile, extra quality, 3refs, 3bframes, all encoding tools enabled) : a solid 9.8fps. No miracle but not too bad :) (Still on the same 2ghz P4).

[ChronoCross]

There is no lossless as well ( I thought perhaps one pass with max and min QP of 0 would have the intended effect, no such luck)

So as a recap:
No Lossless
No Interlaced (mbaff, paff, pure interlaced)
Disabling bframes is broken
AQ barely functions
No FGM
2-pass Target bitrate is broken

The only bonus is speed seems to have increased other than that it seems nero's High profile encoder is a lemon.

PS: 1000 posts w00t!

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Some guys have some doubts about High profile, as well.

It wouldn't be surprise if someone discover that Nero H.264 doesn't have High profile at all.

Very very buggy encoder. Unfortunately. I have high hopes, but...

[DarkZell666]

As long as there's the 8x8 transform they can call it HighProfile ... sad but true ... :)
And 8x8 transform is there (at least the checkbox is there for it xD). So it's HP, that's all there is to it :D

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Yes, but question is how much Nero High profile is good, or better then High profile in x264 codec.

We will see what DmitryV2 H.264 codec test will show.

[Skuto]

It may have less of effect on higher bitrates but the quality gain is still noticeable.

Visibly, or just in the metrics?

I might be wrong, but my impression was that maxref != 1 was essentially not worth the disproportionate increase in time.

[ChronoCross]

Visibly, or just in the metrics?

I might be wrong, but my impression was that maxref != 1 was essentially not worth the disproportionate increase in time.

both.

[sjchmura]

Wow, this is TRUE target bug:

Source was 1080i 3.6GB 42 minutes BSG episode ->720p
ENcoded the whole thing to a target of 1/4DVDR (1.1gig)
2-pass AVC High porfile

My final was 9GIGS - BIGGER then the original

[JohnV]

We'll fix this as soon as possible, but the problem is in the low-level encoder implementation. Looks like a recent update to the Ateme AVC codec which was put to the release compilation was buggy unfortunately. We are waiting for Ateme at the moment.
I'll let you know when more information is available.

[Student Driver]

Wow, thanks.

BTW, any luck on getting the bigger video sizes onto the iPod? :)

[foxyshadis]

Ref 3-5 is generally recommended in x264, or ref 2 for speed. The quality benefits are noticeable, with nearly no speed difference, but after 4 the speed hit starts getting noticeable while the quality gain isn't. (Don't know if Recode has the same pattern.)

[sjchmura]

JohnV,

Thanks for being here. I think most people here appreciate the effort to improve this and are quite happy with the quality and just wanted more (high profile).

Also the documnetation on the new features (8x8, ref frames etc) is non-existant. I think this would help with quality/speed comparisons with other encoders.

Thanks

Steve

[Jumbie]

We'll fix this as soon as possible, but the problem is in the low-level encoder implementation. Looks like a recent update to the Ateme AVC codec which was put to the release compilation was buggy unfortunately. We are waiting for Ateme at the moment.
I'll let you know when more information is available.
Looking forward to that getting fixed soon. I was beginning to think about looking into MeGUI and x264 but I've been pretty happy with Nero so don't really want to switch (even if it is temporarily).

Thanks for the update JohnV.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Thanks for information, JohnV. We appreciate that.

BTW, I tested new Nero HP encoder, and I must say that I am very very disappointed. Sad, but true.

On my machine Nero Recode 2.3.1.8 refuse to finish 2-pass encodes, only one-pass encoding work for me. I really don't know why is that, others don't reported this bug.

For one-pass, I set bitrate to 500 kbps, but final result was only 330 kbps.

I tried to encode with several MPEG2 and MPEG1 files in standard resolutions (720x576 and 320x240). Nothing, same case is always happen.

P.S. Of course, I only tried Nero Digital AVC High Profile codec. High Profile is always on.

[DarkZell666]

KRP : I reported that too : during the 2nd pass, after hitting the target filesize, the encoding sort of "pauses" and loops for ever.
But since the target filesize is reached well before the end of the 2nd pass (due to the other bug where the filesize is much larger than expected) ... obviously the encoding never finishes :)

[shon3i]

Looks like Nero Burnig Room have aslo problem when recording in Disc-At-Once mode.

[DarkZell666]

Looks like Nero Burnig Room have aslo problem when recording in Disc-At-Once mode.
lol ... isn't that part of Nero supposed to be stable by now ? :sly:

[sjchmura]

So the 7.5.0.2 beta does NOT have the resize bug? So this "new" devlopment before release is due to changes from ATEME???

That is a shame. I was waiting to archive alot of transport streams.

[ndkamal]

with this release the quality of picture of Nero Recode is very similar to x264 (latest build), but x264 is more slow. In Nero Recode there are some macro block than I don't see in x264 and that with the best setting. The picture of x264 is a few more sharper than Ateme. And for finished Nero Recode is very optimised for multithreading. (the gain between one and two cores is more important than x264).

[foxyshadis]

Until you guys start figuring out how to control variables, these statements you guys are making about "faster" "sharper" "blockier" are absolutely useless. If you're getting noticeably different speeds and noticeably different quality you're doing it wrong. You have to hold as much constant as possible.

And if you're comparing Nero's defaults against, say, HQ-Slowest, that's just stupid.

The easy way is to configure them as closely as possible; there are some things you have to guess at, but you can get close. Then make changes to get speed the same, or changes to equalize the quality (using ssim if it's not very visibly different). Then you can start posting meaningful comparisons. And duse moving video, not screenshots, of course.

One area that could cause issues is that I don't think x264's and Ateme's deblocking scales are the same.

[IgorC]

Ref 3-5 is generally recommended in x264, or ref 2 for speed. The quality benefits are noticeable, with nearly no speed difference, but after 4 the speed hit starts getting noticeable while the quality gain isn't. (Don't know if Recode has the same pattern.)

Dif ref1->ref2 slow down 17% in x264. However there is no speed drop in the last Elecard H.264 up to 8 ref + fast RDO.
If anybody is seriously interesting to compare speed/quality of a new Nero HP then MC/Elecard is another fast encoder. (fastest here with great quality). However there is a little work to do. 3 programms to install : MC encoder, HD plugin + the last version from another package.

High Profile Level 5.0
B-Pictures= 3
Reference Frames= 5
use B-Slices=ON
Search Shape=8x8
Subpixel Mode=Quarter
Deblocking -2:-2

Multi-reference frame ME=fast
Sub Block ME=fast
Rate Distortion Optimization On=fast
Fast Intra Decisions=ON
Fast Inter Decisions=ON

AVC can be fast as ASP+Qpel with very high quality.

[sjchmura]

Foxy,

Can you post which "profile" in x264 is good to start with and how to modify it to be similar to the 1920x1080 HDTV settings with 8x8 turned on with the slider on "best" - the default but enable 8x8.

While the resize bug is there are you seriously thinking that the ATEME encoder is not at least comparible if not better to the HQ-SLOW profile at the same file size (if you encode 5 minutes Nero works fine - over thats you get 100000GB :(

Again 1080i->720p@2GB/HR final size has excellent output in nero and is very very fast (AMD X2 @2.6hghz, 2meg cache). I have read some other threads thast suggest that AVIsynth, and the iVTC etc, is slowing DOWN x264.

I am tempted to try 7.5.0.2 so the whole thing just works - it seems to be posted everywhere but the Nero site :(

[ndkamal]

I use the setting CE-MainProfile with automated 2 pass turbo mode at 1000 Ko. And Nero Recode I use Main Profile, 2 pass, best quality and -128 to 127.75. But I think so the deblocking scale of x264 is better than use in Nero Recode.

[foxyshadis]

I haven't tested the current nero so I have no idea how fast it is, and exactly how the HD profile is set up. Perhaps HQ-Slow? If that's too slow then perhaps CE-HighProfile. You'll have to experiment. I can tell you that turning off 4x4 on HD is recommended by Manao; the higher the resolution the less 4x4 helps.

As for avisynth+x264, it helps to know how they work. Avisynth is normally single-threaded, although a multithreaded version exists, so on dual-procs if avisynth can't keep up it will weigh down x264. Your basic colormatrix+ivtc can easily keep up with x264 on at least HQ-Slow.

And even on single cpu systems, if you choose MeGUI's slowest and highest quality ivtc/deinterlace, designed to look good no matter how bad the video, of course it's much slower; Nero's ivtc quality can't hold a candle to it, but it's about as good and fast as the much faster normal ivtc, which people can always choose if they want faster processing.

Perhaps MeGUI could be a little better about explaining this.

[Sharktooth]

The current nero recode is fast... who says the contrary is just people that didnt get they should NOT push the quality bar all the way to the right...

[lordx]

Well, I've tested 7.5.0.2 beta and no bug at all . Correct Filesize !
And yes, nero is fast ! I was encoding a lot with Megui/x264 with HQ-Slow profile. And now, with recode, all options on, extra quality, encoding is much faster but i think it's not the encoder :
I explain : when I set up recode with an avs script, which uses decomb, decimate ...., it's not faster ! Same speed.

But when I unload decomb, decimate and use the built-in deinterlacer of recode, resize with recode, and crop with recode, it's REALLY faster than Avisynth/Megui/X264.

And quality is simply great ! Now, I can start a LOT of encodes, instead of buying HDD :)

[Dark Eiri]

Actually, even with the bar all to the right, it's quite fast.

[ArcticFox]

Annoying, i bought Nero especially for Nero recode and its halfassed, and theres no clear "itll be fixed xxx date", regretting buying Nero now.

[Sharktooth]

@ArticFox: welcome to my club...

[greggerm]

@ArcticFox
@Sharktooth

I'm a member as well...

[lordx]

So i was ... too enthousiast ....
mp4 final size is correct
but .... unplayable .... I cannot playback it, with any player.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[sjchmura]

LordX,

Is it really true? A full length encode under 7.5.0.2 does NOT have the bug?

THat is a real shame. I am impressed by the speed and thought the IVTC was quite good in this realeasded version EXEPT for the 100% broken target size.

1080i HDTV streams IVTC looks really really good. I know the abisynth/megui ones may be better, but at least for 1080i HD material, the ivtc looks great (BattleStar Season 1 transport streams from NBC)

[sjchmura]

So in summary:

7.5.0.2 -> correct size but MP4 not compliant
7.5.1.1 -> 4x bigger size but playable

Great

[akupenguin]

One area that could cause issues is that I don't think x264's and Ateme's deblocking scales are the same.
That's a symptom. The real difference is that x264 and Ateme have different mappings of QP<->quality. The standard defines deblocking relative to QP, but the level of deblocking that's actually desirable is relative to quality. There's no single reason for that difference, it's just a sum of lots of decisions that were made during development.

[Manao]

Indeed. At same size / psnr, the average quantizer will differ by ~1.5 between x264 and nero/ateme ( I don't remember which was the lowest ).

[lordx]

So in summary:

7.5.0.2 -> correct size but MP4 not compliant
7.5.1.1 -> 4x bigger size but playable

Great

Like you said .... !
Back to x264 !
:rolleyes:

[sjchmura]

Back to x264 - I need to find the multi-threaded AVIsynth - has anyone tried that???

[foxyshadis]

It's quite stable, and works with all but a couple filters. Just make sure you read the readme so you know how to modify your scripts to take advantage of it. (Only involves adding a couple new lines.) It's based on 2.56, so none of the fixes in 2.57 are included.

Makes a huge difference, often.

[sjchmura]

foxy,


Thanks for the tip. Where is the donwload link - search for "multi thread avisynth" and I don't see it - is it on sourcefordge?

Sorry - I am sure this is easy./..... so quickly will all the standard MeGUI stuff work or do you need special compiles of each plugin?

How much of a speed difference have you noticed with IVTC and resize (say 1080i->720p etc)???

[lordx]

I'm very interested too !!

[foxyshadis]

Oh, it's in tsp's thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=94996). Nothing has to be recompiled, and to my knowledge only pixiedust and mvtools mess up really badly.

[sjchmura]

THanks foxy - found the thread. So it looks like you just need to add the MT(2) line and all should work :)

[sjchmura]

Anyone here WHEN or a target for fixing nero?????

[Sharktooth]

when it's done. JohnV already stated they're waiting for Ateme...

[ArcticFox]

When they can be bothered more like, they have your money thats all they care about.

[Sharktooth]

That's why i havent bought it... always try before you buy...

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

I think that Ateme should release standalone H.264 encoder separate from Nero.

Obviously, something going very wrong in Nero-Ateme relationship.

[sjchmura]

Agreed. I find it stunning that AHEAD is pointing fingers at ATEME. I f this is really a huge bug in teh ATEME encoder how did they not find it?

Whatever the story the users who PAID money for the product are the ones screwed. GReat output, great interface, but the size bug is out of control bad

[ArcticFox]

and its still not patched, this is the first and last nero product i will be buying

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Shame on you, Ahead!!! It's very insulting for us, customers, to get buggy Nero 7.5.

@ Nero devs:

Come on, people, get serious. If your products isn't good enough, then delay releasing, and start fixing bugs, instead.

[Manao]

Those who have no ideas on what development constraints are should not complain so loudly :
- when a project reach a certain size, any modification can have unwanted side effects.
- bugs must be processed first by Nero, then by Ateme if the bug appears not to be on Nero's side. Then, if & when the bug is found and corrected, a new version must be delivered to Nero, integrated into Recode, be tested for any new side effects... All that takes time. And most probably, Nero & Ateme have a support team, different from the development team, which means more delays.

[Dark Eiri]

Or short version: We paid for crap. Let's wait some weeks and then, pay again!

[sjchmura]

MAnao,

I want Nero to be good. I paid for it. Outside of the bug making it non useable, it is quite a nice package (but not perfect).

The fact that it crashes on MKV or AVI+Ac3 streams is forgivable and fixable. The fact that the "Nero Digital" part is broken is not.

Had the devlopers tested a SINGLE encode in 2-pass more they would have seen this and held the release. Hell, this is THE selling point of 7.5.

Sorry - a 4GB transport stream ->9GB MP4 (when shooting for 1.3GB) is pretty big bug that was missed/not tested.

[dvd_maniac]

Given the fact that the ATEME High Profile has been in Beta since almost forever and that this bug is SO obvious and makes the product almost useless, I am wondering what will happen when the update comes out and the trial period is over? Will we be able to reinstall or update and get another full trial period again?

[aicjofs]

Those who have no ideas on what development constraints are should not complain so loudly :
- when a project reach a certain size, any modification can have unwanted side effects.
- bugs must be processed first by Nero, then by Ateme if the bug appears not to be on Nero's side. Then, if & when the bug is found and corrected, a new version must be delivered to Nero, integrated into Recode, be tested for any new side effects... All that takes time. And most probably, Nero & Ateme have a support team, different from the development team, which means more delays.

Hmmm...I am not being being sarcastic at all when I say: I don't need to know anything about anything, blah, blah, the one thing I would do was run a full 2 pass encode if I worked in quality control.

Very disappointed. I owned 6.6 Ultra, and was forced to fork over another $50 to get updates to recode since they discontinued updates in 6.6 and they don't sell recode seperately updated. Again very disappointed....makes the software more or less useless for me, shouldn't take this long to patch. Back to megui which was AVC mutlithreaded a LONG time ago Nero!

[cinemascope]

Or short version: We paid for crap. Let's wait some weeks and then, pay again!
All Nero 7.x updates are free for owners of Nero 7, you know...

[ArcticFox]

Those who have no ideas on what development constraints are should not complain so loudly :
- when a project reach a certain size, any modification can have unwanted side effects.
- bugs must be processed first by Nero, then by Ateme if the bug appears not to be on Nero's side. Then, if & when the bug is found and corrected, a new version must be delivered to Nero, integrated into Recode, be tested for any new side effects... All that takes time. And most probably, Nero & Ateme have a support team, different from the development team, which means more delays.

Yes and if it wasn't for us, the consumers, actually buying Nero they wouldn't be able to develop the damn program.

£40 is a lot of money for something that doesn't work correctly, maybe if they didn't include so much bloat with Nero they might be able to see these bugs and errors before they go out to customers which make them not buy Nero again.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

You are absolutely right, ArcticFox.

[Dark Eiri]

All Nero 7.x updates are free for owners of Nero 7, you know...

Download 300 MB again, whatever. It's not good to pay and wait =/

[SeeMoreDigital]

Personally I think it's a real shame Ateme/Nero don't use the skills and enthusiasm of Doom9 forum members more often. Especially to carry out "beta testing" of their proposed released products!


Cheers

[sjchmura]

Yes, I am sure all of us would be happy to let JohnV look at our keys, ensure they are legit, and let us help them help us.

What sucks is the RECODE could be so damn nice.

WHY is Nerovision now CRASHING on AVI+AC3->DVD. This always worked before

Why is MKV not recognized with nero's DS filters

Why did they NOT let us test the 2 pass encoding

They should not be afraid of us with the legit keys pirating - hell - just watermark it well even on a per -person basis.

Anyway, I still love:

1. Nero Burning - still great
2. Recode despite its flaws, is the best all in one package as soon as it works
3. NeroVision - for making DVD compliant stuff (But WHY IS THE AVI BROKEN NOW????)

[JohnV]

I'm running some full movie encodes with my computers with a fixed NeNDVid.ax which should fix the oversize problem. If it works ok, I have a permission to put this filter online. So if it goes ok, I'll put it online in matter of hours.

[hvatum]

I'm running some full movie encodes with my computers with a fixed NeNDVid.ax which should fix the oversize problem. If it works ok, I have a permission to put this filter online. So if it goes ok, I'll put it online in matter of hours.

Thanks, that would be really awesome. Also nero digital is actually available as a seperate product sans the rest of nero.

http://ww2.nero.com/eng/Upgrade_to_Nero_Digital_Pro.html

Though it isn't updated to the latest version. I don't know why.

[sjchmura]

THank you JohnV,

Would Nero be open to letting us help you (maybe a mailing list)

This would allow the ranting to be filtered from the big problems:

1. OVersize 2-pass encoding
2. AVI+AC3 files crashing Nerovision
3. MKV not working in Nerovision
4. Transport Stream (only in Nerovision - NOT in recode) 2 seconds audio out of sync

We could give you troubled clips

[acidsex]

Is the target size missing on the ASP codec or just AVC?

[Dark Eiri]

Only AVC.

[ArcticFox]

Thanks JohnV much appreciated.

[shon3i]

Did is somebody test ASP. It is better than XviD now, like devs says?

[JohnV]

Ok, I'm continuing checking, but seems it's working. No oversize problem at least so far.
Here's the filter which should fix the Nero 7.5.1.1 AVC 2-pass oversize: http://morbo.org/nero/NeNDVid_2_6_28_1.zip
Extract the NeNDVid.ax to "\Program Files\Common Files\Ahead\DSFilter" in order to replace the old one.

Please report any problems. Thanks.

[shon3i]

JO-HO. Thanks JohnV

[sjchmura]

Thanks JohnV, will test it

[ReinerSchweinlin]

Thanx. Trying out a 720p DIVX-HD, AC3 (HDTV Capture) as I am writing. Let´´s see what happens :)

[Dark Eiri]

Tried a small video, no oversize, good quality.
Thanks A LOT, JohnV.

[Jumbie]

Tried a small video, no oversize, good quality.
Thanks A LOT, JohnV.
How long was the small video?

Couple people (including myself) have found no problems with shorter clips. I tried a 4 min video when people were first reporting oversized encodes and it came out at the target size.

[Dark Eiri]

About 9 ~ 10 minutes, TV performance in 720p.

[lordx]

Encoding now ... always the same movie lol
Cinema Profile, all options on, 5mb bitrate, see you tomorrow ;)

[shon3i]

I finished testing ASP quality with old NeNDVid.ax and quality is terrible. I encode War of the Worlds @ 700kbps, all sliders to max and mv 64 with qpel, and quality is horrible

look screenshot

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5624/bscap0000si7.jpg

Here is sample of Video ~3mb

http://www.mytempdir.com/961665

[JohnV]

I finished testing ASP quality with old NeNDVid.ax and quality is terrible. I encode War of the Worlds @ 700kbps, all sliders to max and mv 64 with qpel, and quality is horrible

look screenshot



Disable "support of interlaced VOP" from ASP advanced settings. But I think the stream still shouldn't do that even if interlaced coding is enabled.. I'll put this forward.

[shon3i]

Ok, thanks for info, i answer on this forum http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=881694#post881694

Is not been turned on when i start encoding. I only set Extra Quality, 2pass, H263, Quartel Pixel, Predicted VOP, Unrestricted MV, 4MV, Bi-VOP, Max Key int 250, Matrices to default. I have no idea what is wrong, and why HE-AAC 5.1 can't be used in ASP encodings, becouse of ND standard or? Can you than make unrestricted profile?

Aslo with both AVC and ASP i can't see subtitles, but i am choose it.

But i must say i didn't see faster encoder.



BTW, I am now finish testing of AVC encoder with one hour long video, there is not oversize, but mp4 file can't be played after remuxing with yamb or mkvtoolnix. I tried to reinstall Halii Media Splitter but that not help. In the begining of video i been impresed of quality and on high motion scenes, but when is show some dark scene, scene is horibly blocking and ffdshow reports on this zones very low bitrate around 300 kbps and very high quantizers around 35. My input bitrate is 1156kbps and i use High quality, 3 ref frames, 8x8.


EDIT: OMG, i am now finsih testing five minutes long video with new (new NeNDVid.ax) ASP, qualty is same and video can't be played propertly. Bitrate jump up to 25000 and then back to 200, video looks like slide show.

What is happend.

[sjchmura]

I just encoded a 42minute AVC 2 pass 1080i->960x540 and the MP4 is NOT playable by even showtime.

WHat is wrong???? I just used the cinema settings, changed the video size, and made the slider "FAST", even disabled 8x8 to make it very very fast.

[shon3i]

I just encoded a 42minute AVC 2 pass 1080i->960x540 and the MP4 is NOT playable by even showtime.

WHat is wrong???? I just used the cinema settings, changed the video size, and made the slider "FAST", even disabled 8x8 to make it very very fast.
I haved same problem, and i soloved it with mp4box/yamb, just with remuxing mp4, or muxing it to mkv. But this is some bug.

[sjchmura]

So, wiht mp4box and yamb I can see how to mux, but how do I "demux" and "remux"

JohnV, have you had this problem???

[JohnV]

I didn't have problem playing with ShowTime yet. I'm encoding more so lets see..

[DDogg]

Source NTSC - Frame 141241 (1:38:10.927)
Encode Cinema AVC to 2-512 flash
8x8 on

Result with new AX:
File1 - 488 MB (511,754,863 bytes)
File2 - 539 MB (566,132,602 bytes) (doesn't agree with log?)
Both play fine in whatever

Some log info:

********** Nero Recode **********
Version: 2.3.1.8
Project type: Nero Digital
Target size: Custom (500000)
Splitted on 2 discs with size 250000 each <<<??? This seems odd
17:20:23 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 56
Command table patching started...
17:20:23 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 135
All tables successfully patched!
Burn settings:
Target: Hard disk folder
Number of copies: 1
Target folder: snip
NeroDigital profile: Cinema - AVC
Shutdown when finished: false
Advanced Analysis: false
Compress Adaptive: false
17:20:43 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 183
NeroDigital: init
17:20:43 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 289
NeroDigital: burning 500000 sectors (500000 required)
17:20:43 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 370
NeroDigital: beginning 1st-pass operation
17:20:43 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 893
NeroDigital: encode VTS_01_1

Source:
Size (720,480)
Display Aspect Ratio (16,9)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (2, 58, 0, 64)
Resizing enabled (720,304)
Pixel ratio (1,1)
Bitrate: 2543250 bps

Source:
Size (720,480)
Display Aspect Ratio (16,9)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (2, 58, 0, 64)
Resizing enabled (720,304)
Pixel ratio (1,1)
Bitrate: 2543250 bps

Watermark disabled
17:55:48 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 918
Nth-pass file = snip

Audio channels = 6
Profile = 5
Bitrate = 160
RCmode = 2
Sampling rate = 48000
17:55:52 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 3174
NeroDigital split size set to [512000000] bytes
17:55:52 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1194
NeroDigital: waiting for graph to complete
18:28:32 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 3088
Added splitted file VTS_01_1_cut(1).mp4
18:28:33 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 3106
Split completed successfully: 510979732 bytes, 64850 samples
18:28:33 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 3115
Muxed bytes at NeroDigital split: [510979732], total muxed bytes: [510979732]
18:28:33 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 3174
NeroDigital split size set to [512000000] bytes
19:16:19 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1290
graph completed successfully
19:16:19 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1064
Muxed bytes at graph completion: [564886507], total muxed bytes: [1075866239]
19:16:21 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 484
NeroDigital: finished two-pass encoding
19:16:21 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 608
NeroDigital: Compiling volume completed successfully
19:16:21 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 638
NeroDigital: begin burn operation
19:16:21 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 225
NeroDigital: exit

[Dark Eiri]

Whoa, the quality is REALLY good! And the speed is very nice.
But it can't beat x264 in quality yet. I wouldn't trade quality for speed. ^^

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

I implemented JohnV patch, and I must say that Nero Digital AVC work OK, now. It's fast codec, but x264 is still better, especially in low bitrate.

More, patched Nero Digital AVC doesn't control bitrate variability very well, even in two pass mode.

[ReinerSchweinlin]

Same here, my encode ist 2hrs long, 720p with ac3 sound in it (avi-source). It´´s not playable by hwotime, ffdshow oder mplayer.

[shon3i]

@JohnV

I found problems in ASP encoder.

1. QPEL is definitly broken
2. When i choose smaller resoultion everything work fine with QPEL, looks like resize filter maybe not working corectly

And when i update this NeNDVid.ax i lose ability to use HE-AAC in config dialog, Why?

[sjchmura]

Yes, I have been encoding from ATSC+AC3->Mp4 720p with AAC-HE. These do not play in ANYTHING.

Again, older nero encoded stuff plays fine

[foxyshadis]

@JohnV

I found problems in ASP encoder.

1. QPEL is definitly broken
2. When i choose smaller resoultion everything work fine with QPEL, looks like resize filter maybe not working corectly

This is the AVC forum and you already reported your problems in the ASP forum. Keep them there, please, instead of cross posting every post.

[lordx]

Well my encode is finished.
Great Speed, great quality, correct filesize !
Ac3 Mux with MkvToolnix , plays very well.

Thanks JohnV ;)

[shon3i]

I am not suprise with quality in dark scenes, but i am not try to turn off psihovisual enchancments.
I need some advice with this, i use 2pass encoding, Extra Quality, mv 256, ref 3, GOP 250, 3 bframes, CABAC, all predictions including 8x8 transform, deblocking 0, all visual enchancments, and chroma, bitrate 900kbps

Encoder is very fast and is faster (all to max, this setting upper) 20-40% than x264 (HQ-Slow)

Is mv range in Ateme is same like me range in x264? Did we than use 256 instead 16 or 32 x264, somebody says that me range bigger than 32 can't incrase qualty. Is this same for ateme?

[IgorC]

MV - motion vectors. ME - motion estimation.
It is not the same. if I don't mistake x264 has mv +/- 512 by default.

[acidsex]

Personally I am done with Nero. I just cant take the crap they release. MeGUI is definitely the way for me now. While Recode may be easier on the eyes, I just cant handle the number of bugs that get released with every single release.

There is no reason in blue hell that 7.5.1.1 should have been released with the bugs that it came with (not including size AVC bug).

One question though. So simply adding the 8x8 transform makes their profile High? isnt there more to enable to produce better quality encodes or is 8x8 all Nero/Ateme will give this product?

[foxyshadis]

The only interesting High profile pieces are 8x8 and custom matrices; 8x8 is certainly important, especially for HD, but that's the only huge one. Monochrome and separate chroma qps are somewhat gimmicky, except for possibly helping at very low bitrates. Above that (high 10, high 4:2:2, and high 4:4:4) is just extra colorspace and lossless support. Most of the magic is main profile stuff.

Also, aren't motion vectors measured in qpel (or hpel in ASP), while motion estimation is measured in pixels?

[bond]

cqm is underestimated till now imho. my tests have shown that they can indeed make clear differences. i guess why they didnt take of that much till now is because they are hard to create :D

[lordx]

Recode give me better results than x264 for HD 1080i->720p.
I've made HUGE x264 HD Encodes but now, Recode is Faster and better quality. Just waste a lot of time with their bugs .... now ok with JohnV patch

[Dark Eiri]

And somebody knows the best settings for low-bitrate Anime Encoding on Recode? I'm using 268kbps AE-Maxquality on MeGUI with x264 and it results on almost perfect results, I want to try the same with Ateme.

[JohnV]

I just encoded a 42minute AVC 2 pass 1080i->960x540 and the MP4 is NOT playable by even showtime.

WHat is wrong???? I just used the cinema settings, changed the video size, and made the slider "FAST", even disabled 8x8 to make it very very fast.

Does this happen if you encode a shorter clip or for you in all cases?
If it's a special case, can you provide the source for examination?

[IgorC]

I just encoded a 42minute AVC 2 pass 1080i->960x540 and the MP4 is NOT playable by even showtime.

WHat is wrong???? I just used the cinema settings, changed the video size, and made the slider "FAST", even disabled 8x8 to make it very very fast.
Weird resolution !/16

[JohnV]

Hmm yeah, 540 isn't dividable even by 8. Recode shouldn't allow to set 540, did you use avisynth input?

[ChronoCross]

I'm still testing but the only glitch I've seen during the encoding process is that it doesn't accurately tell you how fast the encode is running. for me right now it's saying 21fps for this encode but the extimated time it will take it over 26 hours, so the speed is going to have to be dismal in 2nd pass for it to hit 26 hours.

I do know after a quick test yesterday the size problem is fixed.

[Sharktooth]

I've just encoded Dawn of the Dead with the encoder provided by JohnV and recoded hit the selected filesize (700Mb).
The final quality is pretty good and the movie plays back correctly in any player i tried (mplayer, VLC, MPC and showtime).

http://www.webalice.it/f.corriga/temp/dotd1.jpg
http://www.webalice.it/f.corriga/temp/dotd2.jpg
http://www.webalice.it/f.corriga/temp/dotd3.jpg
http://www.webalice.it/f.corriga/temp/dotd4.jpg

However, some blocking is present in dark flat/soft gradient coloured areas and also ringing around moving objects.

[IgorC]

However, some blocking is present in dark flat/soft gradient coloured areas and also ringing around moving objects.
I also noticed that. Disabling _only_ advanced psy can help.

[COREiP]

so how is it comparing to x264?

[woah!]

so how is it comparing to x264?

its better than it ever has been upto this point in time. but i am still getting better results using x264 and faster too.

i encoded a 5min clip of some ice hockey from a 720x480 source. i did a 2pass 900 br 448x336 encode using both softs.

nero came in at 7.36mins

x264 came in at 5.22mins


so the x264 setup is nearly at a 2pass realtime encode speed for me :) first pass was 110fps and 2nd pass was 40fps.


both encodes looked very close to me with maybe x264 having a small edge in Q.

i have the files here if you wanted a look at them. 35meg each one.

[sjchmura]

TS ATSC/AC3 stream keeps failing at 3.5 hours with this log file. THis SAME stream has ZERO errors with MP2REPAIR and AC3FIX. It encoded FINE in Nero 7.5.1.1 (before the updated DLL). It, of course, works fine with x264

Version: 2.3.1.8

Steven Chmura MD,PhD
DocACE Inc.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (my key, JohnV you can have this if you want)

Project type: Nero Digital
Target size: Custom (712700)

23:52:59 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 56
Command table patching started...

23:52:59 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 135
All tables successfully patched!

Burn settings:
Target: Hard disk folder
Number of copies: 1
Target folder: M:\My Videos\Movies\HD-DVD (240103452672 bytes free)
NeroDigital profile: Cinema - AVC
Shutdown when finished: false
Advanced Analysis: false
Compress Adaptive: false

23:55:03 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 183
NeroDigital: init

23:55:03 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 289
NeroDigital: burning 1198718 sectors (1198718 required)

23:55:03 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 370
NeroDigital: beginning 1st-pass operation

23:55:03 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 893
NeroDigital: encode BSG.Lay Down Your Burdens Part 1&2.0000

Source:
Size (1280,1088)
Display Aspect Ratio (16,9)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (4, 4, 6, 12)
Resizing enabled (1280,720)
Pixel ratio (134,134)
Bitrate: 2873471 bps

Watermark disabled
23:55:03 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 918
Nth-pass file = C:\DOCUME~1\sjchmura\LOCALS~1\Temp\\BSG.Lay Down Your Burdens Part 1&2.0000a02000.bin

23:55:05 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1194
NeroDigital: waiting for graph to complete

03:46:45 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1290
graph completed successfully

03:46:46 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 832
An unknown error occurred in the VOB encoder.

03:46:46 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 833
NeroDigital: compiling volume failed

03:46:46 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 225
NeroDigital: exit

03:46:46 File burner.cpp, Line 1421
An unknown error occurred in the VOB encoder.

[acidsex]

Another bug. Surprise. Tried encoding several different files (xvid high bit rate) in Recode for use on Ipod Video and the second the encode starts, it spits out a dumb ass reason "Direct Show Error stopped for no good reason." Yet these same files encode with NO problem using Nero Vision.

Seriously, why doesnt Nero just un-bundle all the crap they have thrown together because half of their crap works each release and half doesnt. Its growing really tiresome paying for a program that never seems to work, at least as well as earlier versions. I can accept bugs here and there but not with every release.

If I was to only use some of the software (pirated) it would constitute theft but if their crap dont work right (bugs) its called development errors/glitches. How they stay in business is beyond me.

[agressiv]

The CTRL-ALT-DEL bug is still there, which is still a showstopper.

Remember, encode a movie (1-pass or 2-pass) and keep a directory listing looped in a command prompt to the directory of the output file.

Then hit CTRL-ALT-DEL (and just hit escape) and the encoder will start going wacko. The file will truncate to zero bytes and leave you with a worthless file. I would assume it would probably crash recode once it reached the end.

I havent tested this with fast user switching, but I can say that holds true on a CTRL-ALT-DEL for login enabled computer.

This would also be the case if you ever use remote desktop to the machine, or a remote control program such as VNC. It will mess up the encoder altogether.

Remember, this is an AVC-only problem - this problem does NOT exist in ASP.

agressiv

[nautilus7]

Do you know that there is also oversizing, when output is dvd (mpeg 2)? I wanted to recode "the island" dvd, selected custom size (4470 MB) and output was 4495 MB. I tried again, but every time ~25 MB oversize.

I use tha last version of recode.

[lordx]

The "Pause" fonction is bugged ! I've used it last night and my encode crash after clicking pause again to resume ...

[sjchmura]

Nerovision:

AVI (if <720x480)+AC3 -> DVD crashes 100% of the time with an unknown error

[dvd_maniac]

can somebody help me with setting up comparable Staxrip X264 settings in Recode?
I use X264 Constant Quality single pass with a quality of 23, 5 B-frames, 5 Ref frames at 512x384 and my 44 minute episodes usually come out between 140MB and 220MB with pretty decent and consistent quality throughout the video.
In Recode the videos do not have the same quality throughout and 1-pass, at the same filesize as Staxrip would output, look horrible in most scenes.
I would rather use Recode now that it has SMP support because it would save me alot of time with inputting many videos over Staxrip's batch method.
Any help would be appreciated....

[Sharktooth]

wtf? staxrip uses x264 that has multiple CPU/Cores support...

[dvd_maniac]

yup it does

[sjchmura]

Staxrip - I thouight it was not updated and still wants to use the old DGIndex etc..... I had nothing but conflicts with an install

[dvd_maniac]

I'm not sure but I don't think DGIndex is SMP optimized.

[Sharktooth]

dont tell me you need multithreaded DGIndex... how much time does it get to save the project? 1 minute? 2 minutes?

[Manao]

It won't help, anyway. DGIndex is limited by the harddrive. DGDecode, and the other end, would - slightly - profit from it.

[dvd_maniac]

I record TV at 12Mbit/s so my shows are about 4.5GB after comm removal. Takes me about 4-5 minutes. I think it is AviSynth that is single threaded and hold X264 back a little. I get about 80% CPU usage on my AMD X2 4600+.

Back on topic
Can somebody help me out with the Nero Recode settings?

[Sharktooth]

Recode 1pass has horrible quality. I think it is ABR or something... but FGS why using recode? Wait until Nero fixes it. It's a pool of bugs...
x264 is multithreaded and uses both your CPU cores. What's wrong with it? It's probably faster than recode too...

[Jumbie]

Recode 1pass has horrible quality. I think it is ABR or something... but FGS why using recode? Wait until Nero fixes it. It's a pool of bugs...
x264 is multithreaded and uses both your CPU cores. What's wrong with it? It's probably faster than recode too...

Yup, I've switched. Can't wait around for Nero to fix their severely bugged software.

x264 with MeGUI is giving me great results on the short test-encodes I've done and is very fast. Not very difficult to use either (doing basic stuff like I am anyway).

[dvd_maniac]

Recode 1pass has horrible quality. I think it is ABR or something... but FGS why using recode? Wait until Nero fixes it. It's a pool of bugs...
x264 is multithreaded and uses both your CPU cores. What's wrong with it? It's probably faster than recode too...

I AM currently using X264.
The reason I wanted to use Recode is that it takes a while to import and setup 3-4 videos a day into Staxrip where Recode is quicker. But if I can't get decent quality with 1-pass like in X264 then I won't bother.
Thanx SharkTooth

[Sharktooth]

Well, recode has a faster analysis pass but you have always to wait until it ends before you can perform other tasks.
However to speed-up DGIndex i suggest you to setup a ramdrive to store the audio and project files. Once finished copy those files to the HDD...

[sjchmura]

IF recode actually worked it would be nice. Que up the transport streams and call it a day. Too bad it is so broken

[lordx]

Definitly back to x264 ....
During an encoding with recode, I've set priority to low to watch a movie during encoding. After the viewing, I've set it again to normal. Encode finished with a final size of ... nothing 0kb, completly crashed encode.

:angry: :angry: :angry:

So back to x264 and will test multithreated Avisynth .

[dvd_maniac]

Definitly back to x264 ....
During an encoding with recode, I've set priority to low to watch a movie during encoding. After the viewing, I've set it again to normal. Encode finished with a final size of ... nothing 0kb, completly crashed encode.

:angry: :angry: :angry:

So back to x264 and will test multithreated Avisynth .
Could be that your media player changed resolution or bit depth or something. Recode is so sensitive about anything video related changing during encoding.

I am sticking with X264 myself as well

[sjchmura]

You know, this is really really sad.

I am amazed that Ahead has little interest in helping us perfect their product (or at least get it working). JohnV is the sole person trying to help and I am sure he has 1000 other jobs to do.

If he (or someone) could spend 5% of their time collecting detailed crash logs, samples, etc (with a dedicated FTP site), I am shocked if recode could not be fixed in weeks.

Why? Because many of these "bugs" were NOT present in 7.2 of recode. So the "crashing with AVI" in nerovision ->DVD is a new issue. The pause button is old. The stopping on 2 pass streams. The bitrate issues etc.

Lets face it, nero 7.2 recode was great for Main Profile and with Psycho enhancmetns, IMHO, approached that of "HQ" x264. Unfortunately, now with x264 being multithreaded, it is not even as fast.

I am very very disapointed in my $80 purchase. Well, at least the nero burning works well.

[foxyshadis]

Should have bought it at buy.com. $53 w/ $20 rebate until 10/8.

[Sharktooth]

Well, there are GUI problems too...
For example just uncheck "Adanvced" (in Psy enhancements) then change options category and return back. You will notice "Advanced" is still checked...

[stevenjenkins]

well, the file that JohnV first posted did help. It fixed the filesize issue and allowed me to use 2-pass...

Well, not anymore. Using it today, it won't do 2pass anymore...just fails after the first pass.

Damn you Nero...If it wasn't ready, don't release and sell it.

[JohnV]

well, the file that JohnV first posted did help. It fixed the filesize issue and allowed me to use 2-pass...

Well, not anymore. Using it today, it won't do 2pass anymore...just fails after the first pass.


Little more details please. In what situation this happens?

[Sharktooth]

When Deinterlace option is enabled.

[Romario]

Hi, JohnV. And I have same problem as member stevenjenkins. My settings are usual, audio is HE-AAC 64kbps, video 512 kbps, deinterlace off, crop off, resize 512x384, letterbox isn't checked.

Profile is HDTV AVC, 3 B-Frames, 4 Ref. Frames, High Profile on, deblocking 0, extra quality, Psychovisual enchantments (all options are on), Maximum vector range is -256 to 255.75.

Source file is MPEG2 file (9000 kbps, 720x576).

[JohnV]

Romario: what error notification you get and does it happen when 2nd pass should start also? You sure deinterlace was off?

[sjchmura]

THaznks for trying to help out JohnV - did you get my logs I PM'ed....

Have you been able to reproduce the "hanging" on the second pass that seems almost random (unlike in 7.2 where ceartain clips would hang predictibly)

Also
Max Vecotr Range, by default is -/+36 or so. Why are most people changing that to: Maximum vector range is -256 to 255.75.

[Sharktooth]

exactly +/-32. what's exactly Max Vector Range? Is it the Max Motion Vector Range?
The older versions had it +/-512 too...

[JohnV]

THaznks for trying to help out JohnV - did you get my logs I PM'ed....

Have you been able to reproduce the "hanging" on the second pass that seems almost random (unlike in 7.2 where ceartain clips would hang predictibly)


sjchumra: I got one log, but I got a message from the board that I didn't get your latest PM because my PM box became full... but there's room now if you send again.

[Romario]

Romario: what error notification you get and does it happen when 2nd pass should start also? You sure deinterlace was off?

Yes, I am pretty sure that deinterlace was off. I get this error message: Encoding to Nero Digital failed. Do you want to save the log file?

I tried to set Maximum vector range back to +/-32, but nothing helps.

[Sagittaire]

exactly +/-32. what's exactly Max Vector Range? Is it the Max Motion Vector Range?
The older versions had it +/-512 too...

Yes it's the motion vector range to +/- n pixels but +/- 256 or +/- 512 don't change really the quality. Anyway +/- 512 is compliant with level 4.1 ...

[sjchmura]

JohnV - I will upload some AVI's that are crashing (but preview works fine XVID/AC3) streams for Nerovision ->MPEG2 DVD

[cinemascope]

The CTRL-ALT-DEL bug is still there, which is still a showstopper.

...

Remember, this is an AVC-only problem - this problem does NOT exist in ASP.
I could also reproduce this with ASP profiles.

It appeared that this was only happening with DVD titles, but with when using video files as source
the output is also broken, even though the filesize does not reset to 0.

[cinemascope]

Source NTSC - Frame 141241 (1:38:10.927)
Encode Cinema AVC to 2-512 flash
8x8 on

Result with new AX:
File1 - 488 MB (511,754,863 bytes)
File2 - 539 MB (566,132,602 bytes) (doesn't agree with log?)
Both play fine in whatever

Some log info:

********** Nero Recode **********
Version: 2.3.1.8
Project type: Nero Digital
Target size: Custom (500000)
Splitted on 2 discs with size 250000 each <<<??? This seems odd

This is perfectly OK. The reason it looks a bit odd is because the sizes in the log are given in blocks of 2048 bytes.

[Sharktooth]

Yes it's the motion vector range to +/- n pixels but +/- 256 or +/- 512 don't change really the quality. Anyway +/- 512 is compliant with level 4.1 ...

+/- 32 seems a bit low then... IIRC the older version defaults were much higher (x264 has it hardly set to +/- 512 too).
but maybe that low default is optimal for sliceless multithreading?

[JohnV]

Hi all.
The previous filter while fixing the oversize problem, crashed in certain common cases after the AVC 1st pass (in 2-pass encoding), so it wasn't always usable. Ateme provided a new version of the AVC encoder which also should fix the crashing problem. The filter linked below fixes for me at least so far these crashes after the 1st pass.

Let me know your experiences. Please remember that this is not any official update and maybe not what will be included in the next web update, and I haven't run so many encodes with all different source streams that I could say for sure it works better in all cases, but so far looks to work better for me.

http://morbo.org/nero/NeNDVid_filters_for_test_11Oct.zip

[JohnV]

JohnV - I will upload some AVI's that are crashing (but preview works fine XVID/AC3) streams for Nerovision ->MPEG2 DVDOk, thanks. You have the FTP addy in your PM box.

[Romario]

JohnV, thanks you for quick fix. However, new version of Ateme AVC encoder don't work for me, I don't knw why. Windows XP says this:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8691/atemeerrornz4.jpg

[JohnV]

JohnV, thanks you for quick fix. However, new version of Ateme AVC encoder don't work for me, I don't knw why. Windows XP says this:

Try closing Recode, run unregister.bat in the \Program Files\Common Files\Ahead\DSFilter subdirectory (to where you extraced all the files), and then run register.bat there to register filters again. Give it a reboot and try again.

If this didn't help, let me know what you are trying to encode.

[Romario]

Ok, I will try that tomorrow, I am too tired now.

[fenomeno83]

which is the last version of neroaac?

[stevenjenkins]

Haven't had a chance to dissect quality as of yet, but the latest replacement files have resulted in Nero being able to complete successfully.

Hopefully this is the end of this saga.

[Romario]

Try closing Recode, run unregister.bat in the \Program Files\Common Files\Ahead\DSFilter subdirectory (to where you extraced all the files), and then run register.bat there to register filters again. Give it a reboot and try again.

If this didn't help, let me know what you are trying to encode.

I tried that just minute ago, but nothing change. I use the same settings as before, look few posts above, JohnV. I don't know why. I have Service Pack 1 on my system.

The source file is MPEG2 720x576, with very low noise. If you wish, I can send you that file. Contact me via PP, JohnV.

[sjchmura]

(With new Oct11 updates)

Can anyone import HDTV ATSC transport streams anylonger??? I cannot import them (TS or MPG named).

WHat happened??

JohnV,

I am uploading some error logs and XVIX/AC3 files that crash the NeroVision app (also the recode one) - so you can't convert these to DVD.

[JohnV]

sjchmura: check which ac3 decoder filter you have in use if you build the graph with graphedit, then try disabling that ac3 decoder and check if Recode now imports the stream.
I remeber I had similar thing happening and the reason was that another ac3 filter was preferred by dshow in import phase (even though it shouldn't) and it caused lock-up. If that doesn't work, check the same about mpeg2 decoder filter.
There are some filter preference issues in Recode which should be fixed by architechtural changes.. Another thing is, that if Nero filters can't decode the wanted media type at all, a foreign filter will be used and sometimes it may cause complications.

[sjchmura]

So JohnV.

Which filters should be built in graphedit??? I ask this since it seems the nero filters ONLY work in nero apps or WMP/MCE.

Summary:
Recode with NEW filters (installing the 7.5.1.1 fixes this)
1. Transport Stream and MPG importing broken. The GRAPHEDIT is the same, NVIDIA Purevideo and AC3fitler (which Recode should be using its own)
2. NeroVision: You cna import and preview XVID/AC3 (even edit it, play it back etc) however when you TRANCODE to DVD it breaks.

THere is no reason to use Nero as default decoders since these cannot, for example, transcode to AC3 5.1 in realtime (ala ac3filter 1.01b).

[JohnV]

So JohnV.

Which filters should be built in graphedit??? I ask this since it seems the nero filters ONLY work in nero apps or WMP/MCE.

I meant, which filters get the highest prio and are used by default if you render media file in Graphedit. It may be that these are also used in Recode import and cause a problem. If it is purevideo/ac3filter, see what happens if you disable those -> does Recode import still crash?

[sjchmura]

PureVideo 123 (latest)
Ac3Filter (passthrough ACS3/DTS)

This is for TS/TP or MPG ATSC HDTV/AC3 streams

Again, I reinstalled the 7.5.1.1 release and it imports MGP (ATSC) and TS (ATSC) just fine.

The NeroVision transcoding bug is even stranger sicne you can EDIT the XVID/AC3 but you cant put them on DVD :(

I made a folder on teh FTP site called sjchmura with crash logs and an example, - can you make sure the AVI is ok... I did not get a file complete dialog from windows ... the size seems correct however :(

I will cut it with VDUB and send a smaller piece - should have thought of that 20 hours ago

THanks for the help

[JohnV]

sjchmura: I tried TS (ATSC) from here (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~balazer/mmb_media/), and different MPEG2 program streams and had no problems importing any of them with the new filters in Recode, everything worked ok.
Again, try to disable purevideo/ac3filter just for testing and see what happens.

Your upload to FTP is not quite complete. Could you resume so that I can check it.

[ChronoCross]

Anyone using haali media splitter will find that .ts streams fail. Uninstall it to encode .ts using recode.

[sjchmura]

If we uninstall halli then how can we playback MKV files???

I have the TS/TP options OFF in the Halli splitter. I only get the tray icon if playing back MKV with MCE or WMP

[sjchmura]

JohnV,

I have ctopped the video to 1 minute to allow esier testing. See the new log file - again.

1. NeroVision
2. Import
3. Preview works fine
4. Transcoding fails.

It is very very odd you can edit the video and play it back but you can't transcode it.

Btw, if you disable the MKV splitter the nero DOES work with MPG (but not TS labled ATSC files). So, like in older versions, if you rename a TS to MPG you can import to recode.

I will try an encode tonight.

[kappa]

First of all kudos for a very user friendly implementation of DVD transcoder. I have been tinkering with Recode, trying to encode CSI Las Vegas Season 5 to 2 DVD5s, with Nero Digital AVC. I first ran into the oversizing issue, that was succesfully resolved by applying JohnV's patch.

Unfortunately there is still a problem: When encoding the episodes (2 pass Standard or Cinema or HDTV AVC), either all together as a batch, or one by one, Recode splits the file at an arbitrary poitn towards the end, which is different size-wise and time-wise for every episode. For example, Episode 1 is supposed to end up 380 MB long, but gets split at 370 MB and the rest is written to a new file 10MB long. When the oversizing issue was present, the file would get split to many 370MB files. The same happens for episode 2, but this time the split size is 351 MB. I have checked and there is no correlation between the VOBs and these cut points.

I have attached screenshots of the input window, the encoding window and the directory where the files are saved. Thanks in advance for any info.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8635/0ce0.th.png (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0ce0.png)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8913/1mp0.th.png (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1mp0.png)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/954/2nk7.th.png (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2nk7.png)

[setarip_old]

there is no correlation between the VOBs and these cut points.Chapter breaks? Scene changes?

[kappa]

Chapter breaks? Scene changes?


No, no chapter break, no scene change, no change of VOB file. And as I said, when the oversizing was still an issue, the file would get split at exactly the same chunks (for episode 1`that would be 371302 kB).

[cinemascope]

If we uninstall halli then how can we playback MKV files?
Try Matroska Splitter (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=82303&package_id=84361).

[foxyshadis]

You don't need to uninstall haali. Just reinstall it like normal, and uncheck TS at the end of the installer.

[SeeMoreDigital]

If we uninstall halli then how can we playback MKV files??? Media Player Classic will still be able to play them ;)

[sjchmura]

Foxy - that works - as long as your rename "TS" to "MPG" it now imports fine :) Thanks!

My encode of a battlestar transport stream is going now - trying to hit 1080i-720p @1.4gigs/episode (yeah, I have alot fo transport streams I am trying to compress from 2 years :)

Mediaplayer classic is no where near as slick as MCE 2005 :) My fiance loves MCE2005 therefore it stays :)

MKV under MediaCenter 2005 is really nice and works well. I also like my MP4 encodes now that I have Ac3Filter doing dolby digital since teh damn creative peopel NEVER fixed the subwoofer analog problem (10db too low). So with a creative audigy 2sz AC3-AAC-HE->AC3 sounds better then the 6 cable analog to my good speakers. Creative - another company that never really gets it right - but the only one with EAX 3/4/5....

[SoleBastard]

Nero 7.5.7.0 is released, I can't find a changelog though...

Grab it here:

http://www.nero.com/nero7/eng/nero7-up.php

I hope it fixes that little recode bug... :p

[agressiv]

Nero 7.5.7.0 observations:

1) Installer works on Vista RC2 without having to use compatibility mode. I didn't try 64-bit Vista though, or RC1.
2) CTRL-ALT-DEL bug seems to be fixed. (files were getting truncated with AVC encoder if you messed with video)

I'll post some results from some test encodes, but I don't do full DVD's anymore since switching to MeGUI, and I would need Recode to handle IFO mode extracts better.

agressiv

[JohnV]

JohnV,

I have ctopped the video to 1 minute to allow esier testing. See the new log file - again.

1. NeroVision
2. Import
3. Preview works fine
4. Transcoding fails.

It is very very odd you can edit the video and play it back but you can't transcode it.


sjchmura: I couldn't reproduce that error.. NeroVision transcoding worked for me with identical settings to yours with the file you provided.
Try with the new Nero 7.5.7.0, and if it still fails, I'll put this issue for closer examination.

[sjchmura]

SAme problem....

Did you see my error log file? What is going on? I tried installing it on my laptop (where I am typing and watching my Chicago Bears get crushed) and it also chokes on these files.

My latop is a sony vaio 480p (centrino) again with purevideo.

I can try to turn off purevideo but that is kinda craZy - it is a hardware/software solution we pay for.

IF you disable AC3filter we get (in graphedit)

BSG -> FFDSHOW ->VideoOUt
-> Nero Audio 2 (no mixing) ->DS Sound out

OF course, the nero DSFILTER will NOT show up in graphedit.

Again, you can PREVIEW the video IN nerovision just fine. I converted the files to XVID+MP3 (from AAC) and it works fine.

So

1. I think the problem is with the 5.1 AC3 stream
2. YOu get it to work
3. I am using, in graphedit, the nero audio filters.
4. I uploaded the new 7.5.7 crash file to the FTP site in the sjchmura folder

Well, I will try it. Why would nerovision NOT use the nero decoders???

Any info in the log??? I can't understand it??

[cinemascope]

Nero 7.5.7.0 observations:

2) CTRL-ALT-DEL bug seems to be fixed. (files were getting truncated with AVC encoder if you messed with video)
No, I'm afraid this bug is still there.
Sometimes it does not occur if the video preview was initally disabled, but it is still present.

[sjchmura]

Edit: The Bears actually one (for those who care about american football :)

[DarkZell666]

My specs from work (for reminder) : Intel P4 2ghz, XP pro SP1, with 2GB of DDR-PC3200 RAM.

Regarding 7.5.7.0 :

Speed: Ehm, where's the Fast 1st pass gone ? On my 512*384 xvid-in-avi source, I would get over 25fps on 1st pass, and a solid 10fps on second pass (with previous 7.5.1.x version I think). Now I'm getting 7.xxfps on 1st pass, and 6.xxfps on second pass, which is kinda wierd.

Functionnality: If I minimize Recode during 2nd-pass, restore it, and disable+reenable video preview (which is wrong since the checkbox is unchecked by default btw), CPU usage will drop to 0% (unused cpu%=99, so it isn't used up by anything else ...) and the encode won't finish. It seems related to the CTRL+ALT+DEL problem somehow ... ****EDIT: it's actually hitting CTRL+ALT+DEL to open the taskmanager that crashes it, triple lol****

*Hoping for the Nth test encode to finish ...* ***Edit: nope, will have to try again ...****

[sjchmura]

First encode failed at 52%. Just "stopped' again on the scond pass. WTF???

John, would you like the file??

[sjchmura]

Btw, the video preview was enabled and the computer was NOT being used.

Log File:
Project type: Nero Digital
Target size: CD80 (354000)

07:35:09 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 56
Command table patching started...

07:35:09 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 135
All tables successfully patched!

Burn settings:
Target: Hard disk folder
Number of copies: 1
Target folder: M:\My Videos\Movies\HD-DVD (236924108800 bytes free)
NeroDigital profile: Cinema - AVC
Shutdown when finished: false
Advanced Analysis: false
Compress Adaptive: false

07:35:32 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 182
NeroDigital: init

07:35:32 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 288
NeroDigital: burning 354000 sectors (354001 required)

07:35:32 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 327
NeroDigital: Adjusting target size

07:35:32 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 369
NeroDigital: beginning 1st-pass operation

07:35:32 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 909
NeroDigital: encode [email]ARMAGEDDON.HDTV.H264.1080i
Source:
Size (1440,1088)
Display Aspect Ratio (20,11)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (2, 0, 2, 14)
Resizing enabled (1280,720)
Pixel ratio (190,184)
Bitrate: 3093955 bps

Watermark disabled
07:35:32 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 934
Nth-pass file = C:\DOCUME~1\sjchmura\LOCALS~1\Temp\\ARMAGEDDON.HDTV.H264.1080i
07:35:35 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1210
NeroDigital: waiting for graph to complete

10:10:02 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1306
graph completed successfully

10:10:14 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 909
NeroDigital: encode [email]ARMAGEDDON.HDTV.H264.1080i

Source:
Size (1440,1088)
Display Aspect Ratio (20,11)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (2, 0, 2, 14)
Resizing enabled (1280,720)
Pixel ratio (190,184)
Bitrate: 3093955 bps

Watermark disabled
10:10:14 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 934
Nth-pass file = C:\DOCUME~1\sjchmura\LOCALS~1\Temp\\ARMAGEDDON.HDTV.H264.1080i

Audio channels = 6
Profile = 5
Bitrate = 225
RCmode = 2
Sampling rate = 48000
10:10:26 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1210
NeroDigital: waiting for graph to complete

18:54:58 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1403
NeroDigital: Cancel

18:54:58 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1262
Cancelled!

18:54:59 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 848
Process canceled by user.

18:54:59 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 849
NeroDigital: compiling volume failed

18:54:59 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 224
NeroDigital: exit

[JohnV]

Is this happening every time with that source? You have the ftp address, go ahead.

[sjchmura]

Yes, every time. I cannot cut the h264/ac3 stream so I will upload the whole thing - it is 4.5gb

[sjchmura]

Btw, if you can get this to work Nero will have something that is especially important in Europe and for Some USA streams - h264 1080/DTS streams. Nero does this - 1 pass works - to shrink these from the insame bitrates to something smaller.

I hope my upload does not take 100000 hours :)

Steve

[sjchmura]

JohnV,

DId you forward my BSG sample to people and log files to solve this problem with NeroVision? I would love to convery some AVI stuff to DVD

[JohnV]

Yes, every time. I cannot cut the h264/ac3 stream so I will upload the whole thing - it is 4.5gb

Ok thanks. :)

DId you forward my BSG sample to people and log files to solve this problem with NeroVision? I would love to convery some AVI stuff to DVD Yes.

[Nicolede]

I have the same problem as DarkZell. With two pass, the time to encode is two times longer ( first pass as long as the second) with 7.5.7.0 :-(. I go back to the last version with JohnV patch

[JohnV]

Unfortunately there is still a problem: When encoding the episodes (2 pass Standard or Cinema or HDTV AVC), either all together as a batch, or one by one, Recode splits the file at an arbitrary poitn towards the end, which is different size-wise and time-wise for every episode. For example, Episode 1 is supposed to end up 380 MB long, but gets split at 370 MB and the rest is written to a new file 10MB long. [/URL]
Thanks kappa. This has been marked as resolved now, though I haven't got the fixed version myself yet.

[JohnV]

I have the same problem as DarkZell. With two pass, the time to encode is two times longer ( first pass as long as the second) with 7.5.7.0 :-(. I go back to the last version with JohnV patch

Hmm.. I'll compare if there's a difference between the filter versions, but for me 1st pass is clearly faster than 2nd in 7.5.7.0. Maybe your source is so short that the fast 1st pass is not used. Try some longer source.

[DarkZell666]

Hmm.. I'll compare if there's a difference between the filter versions, but for me 1st pass is clearly faster than 2nd in 7.5.7.0. Maybe your source is so short that the fast 1st pass is not used. Try some longer source.

About 1st-pass: true indeed, I was testing a 1'30 clip, now I'm testing a full 25min episode and fast 1st pass triggered correctly =)

I was actually thinking about something like that, but thought it would be a dodgy choice if I had designed the application myself, so I didn't bother testing a longer clip (you know, this CTRL+ALT+DEL bug isn't that pleasant when you're a developer and alway need the task manager to see when an infinite loop or a memory leak occurs ... :/). I suppose I'll have to learn the taskbar-right-click method in the meantime ^^

Thx for sorting this out ;)

[Nicolede]

Ok i test it on 40min Buffy :-)

[sjchmura]

Is anyone else still getting the 2nd pass to STOP if you shrink the app or turn on and off the preview....

[ChronoCross]

nope.....

[korinel]

Hi,

I've been wondering about automating Nero Recode for some time, in order to compress my TV shows at high quality.

By chance, I just discovered what appears to be an undocumented feature. With the new version of Nero (7.5.7.0), and possibly earlier versions, I haven't checked, if I open a compatible video file with Recode on the command line (e.g. Recode.exe E:\TV\movie.mpg), it automatically converts to MPEG-4 without requiring user feedback, before closing down cleanly. Very cool.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any way to change the settings or to run a pre-scan. It does seem to remember the last file size Nero attempted to fit to (a shame it doesn't seem to recall bitrate instead), but most annoyingly not the profile: Nero Digital Standard (not AVC), always seems to be applied. It also will not do 2-pass encoding, and does automatic resizing.

I was wondering if anyone had any methods that would allow me to fine tune the features? Has anyone found any command-line options, or other ways to tamper with default settings more directly?

Cheers,

-Karl

P.S. Also, does anyone know a way of turning off square pixel resizing by default?

[sjchmura]

Recode crashes on this stream:

John,

Look at the FTP site in the sjchmura folder and the new folder

sjchmura\ts crash\

This will crash recode 100% of the time. nevidex.ax crash. However, NeroVision plays it back fine (along with mplayer classic)

[JohnV]

Recode crashes on this stream:

John,

Look at the FTP site in the sjchmura folder and the new folder

sjchmura\ts crash\

This will crash recode 100% of the time. nevidex.ax crash. However, NeroVision plays it back fine (along with mplayer classic)
This happens for me too. Thank you for uploading.

[korinel]

I notice that Nero Digital's AVC profiles only permit <=30 fps material. However, when I encode a 59.97 fps MPEG-2 file, the resultant MP4 is also 59.97 fps. I'd like to produce something compliant. Is there any workaround? Some sort of built-in x2 decimate pre-processor would be ideal.
Regards,
-Karl

[sjchmura]

I am trying to upload another stream that is 4GB but the FTP site is timeing out for some unknown reason and I can't "resume".

This "stops" at 16.5%

Any progress or help I can give on the XVID/AC3 stuff crashing NeroVision I uploaded???

Is resume enabled? Suggestions for a freeware resume agent that works??

[arfster]

Some sort of built-in x2 decimate pre-processor would be ideal.


Just make an avisynth script, and use that as the source. Something like:

DGDecode_mpeg2source("C:\videos\TV\Lost\sometvepisodeyoudownloadedanddemuxxedalready.d2v")
TDecimate(cycleR=3,cycle=5)

That will take the 60fps back down to its original 24fps by chucking away all the duplicated frames.

[korinel]

Thanks for the reply.

However, the avs doesn't open in Nero Recode. Doing Import Files -> Select "Test.avs" looks fine, but when I click on "Add Title" it does nothing.

Also, this method strips the audio, which means having to encode the audio separately, and then mux with MP4Box (probably having to deal with an audio sync problems as well). I would like to avoid that sort of fiddling if possible, which is precisely why I like to use NeroRecode.

[JohnV]

I am trying to upload another stream that is 4GB but the FTP site is timeing out for some unknown reason and I can't "resume".

This "stops" at 16.5%

Any progress or help I can give on the XVID/AC3 stuff crashing NeroVision I uploaded???

Is resume enabled? Suggestions for a freeware resume agent that works??Resume works for me.
Try aceftp (http://software.visicommedia.com/en/products/aceftpfreeware/).

[sjchmura]

will do...

[korinel]

I just tried using the deinterlace option, which is by default turned off. The result is a file of 30 fps, which is not 59.97 / 2, nor is it a pre-telecined 24 fps. Very strange. Seems to play/look okay though. I'll try something a little bigger next time, and see if there are any quality or audio-video sync problems.

If JohnV is reading, some sort of clarification of how Recode handles >30 fps content would be helpful. Also, if you could allow Recode to open files with .tp, .ts & .dvr-ms extensions, given that it handles the files okay, that would be great. They seem to work fine if I simply change the extension to .mpg, as reported by other users, but it seems pointless effort to have to do this each time.

Many thanks,

-Karl

[arfster]

Thanks for the reply.

However, the avs doesn't open in Nero Recode. Doing Import Files -> Select "Test.avs" looks fine, but when I click on "Add Title" it does nothing.


That happens sometimes for me, but a reboot fixes it. I've made quite a few encodes with Nero using fairly complex Avisynth scripts, it works fine.

Oh, and deinterlacing options will never work, because the file isn't interlaced :-( This is where Avisynth flexibility trumps any automatic system.

[korinel]

I'm looking for a system that's as automatic as possible. Not that I mind working with Avisynth, etc., it's just that it takes so long if you're doing it on a regular basis.

[sjchmura]

JohnV,

It would probably solve ALOT of problems if recode and nerovision used a custom "nero first" graph for the audio and video - like NeroShowtime does. NeroShowtime, using the filters plays everything. In fact, if you use Nero Splitter/Nero Vid Decoder/Nero Audio Decoder, even that problematic transport stream (h264/ac3) plays back fine. Hell, you can use the nero filters with opensource stuff to get it to transcode to what you want.

Nero Recode/Vision needs to be as brainless and well constructed for standard file types as NeroShowtime. Playing with filter priorities is a pain in the ass :)

[sjchmura]

Anyone getting SOLID green encodes with 2 pass enable but 1 pass ok?? John, I will upload a sample tomorrow.

1. Any progress with the TS that crashes?
2. Any progress with xvid/ac3 avi in NeroVision?
3. You want the gree stuff :)

John, seriously. can we get recode to use teh SAME FILTERS as NeroShowtime? EVERYTHING plays FINE in showtime - everythign@!!! (also in the freeware app Media Player Classic)

[JohnV]

TS crash is fixed, but we can't say yet for sure what causes your NeroVision problem because we can't reproduce it.
Never seem this green stuff before, you know the procedure, thanks in advance. :)

Recode and ShowTime build the graph differently. Recode was made to support in principle all possible formats, even those which Nero filters don't support, but 3rd party filters can invade the graph cache even if our filters should be preferred. And if these same 3rd party filters don't work well together with Recode, then a problem can occur. In Showtime the graph is manually built separately for all scenarious, using only Nero filters.
There should be improvement to this situation coming, but not immediately.

[sjchmura]

If I can make a suggestion....

Suck up point 1:Showtime plays freaking everything - it is great - far far more than Recode will import (TS, TP - without rename, H264, h264 TS files). Therefore..

Bash Point 2:) So why not use the showtime nero only filters (so our machines can use other codecs too that mite break recode) FIRST then fall back on directshow...

For exmaple (Psuedocode)

test = battlestar.rules.nbc.ts -> Nero Splitter -> nero vid decode and Nero Audio decode

nerorecode encode test.mp4

If NeroRecode fails then

NeroRecode -UseDirectSHowGRF test

:)

[sjchmura]

Bug/Conflict solved: XVID+AC3.avi would crash Nerovision if you want to encode to DVD

Problem: AC3 Filter. For whatever reason....
So, in the end, nerovision is NOT using its own nero filters as default for the sound

I use AC3Filter on my MCE system to "encode realtime Dolby digital" from non-ac3 sources. If a file HAS ac3 already it is passed through (very very cool opensource)

Anyway:

This messes with nero. If you "deselect" the "use SPDIF encoding" nerovision works!!!!!

[korinel]

I reported this previously, but never really got anywhere so thought I'd try to keep this discussion alive.

I just tried producing a NeroDigitial AVC (Cinema) mp4 from a 720p ATSC transport stream at 59.94 fps with the latest version of NeroRecode. It produces a non-NeroDigital compliant file reported at 59.94fps. The audio plays back fine, but the video plays back at half speed (I'm guessing 29.97 fps) in Showtime and all other compliant players. I also tried manually selecting the deinterlace filter, but the output was still unplayable. Furthermore, the avisynth script fix that arfster suggested simply didn't open in Recode for me.

If JohnV is still listening, is there any way that Nero Recode could be tweaked to handle such material? I don't imagine this would be particularly difficult (if source material rate >> 30 fps then x2 decimate), and 720p is pretty common now.

Cheers,

-Karl

[sjchmura]

Also Confirmed bug (2 people)

If recode is running and you connect to XP SP2 with Remote Desktop Connection Nero will terminate the encode iwth the log file "Nero Recode terminated for unknown reason".

This is 100% reproducible

[sjchmura]

2nd bug:

The check box on 2 pass encoding for preview is broken. If UNCHECKED it will show the encoding and you need to check it/uncheck a few times to fix it

[sjchmura]

Third:

Some encodings of ATSC HDTV simply "stop" for unknown reasons (before these would crash). Now if you press "pause" and unpause it it keeps going - very very odd.

[ChronoCross]

Also Confirmed bug (2 people)

If recode is running and you connect to XP SP2 with Remote Desktop Connection Nero will terminate the encode iwth the log file "Nero Recode terminated for unknown reason".

This is 100% reproducible

Denied. 2 People with Problem, 1 against. I have it running on 2 different machines and neither exhibit this behavior.

2nd bug:

The check box on 2 pass encoding for preview is broken. If UNCHECKED it will show the encoding and you need to check it/uncheck a few times to fix it

Confirmed. It's even funnier in remote desktop when it shows nothing but green.

[sjchmura]

"An error occured in DirectShow. It aborted itself for no good reason"

This happens with remote desktop if I connect to my laptop or desktop.

[kikkervis]

Somewhere in this thread several people asked if it was possible to set options for multiple lines at once.
I often have several files > 50 and I want to encode them to AVC in batch. For every file I have to set the encoder, check interlaced (recode guesses wrong in 5%), select audio format, etc, etc.
Without a commandline interface or the options to set a default this means that I have to set every line one at a time.

Anyone any suggestions?