How to convert from pal to ntsc?

[Clydesdale]

I have a divx file but it is in pal. Being in North America I believe I need video to be in ntsc format to play back normally on my dvd player/tv. What's best way to convert?

[Taric25]

TMPEG does this best. It's found on Doom9's downloads. You can IVTC to take out the interlaced frames, crop out the black bars at the top and bottom, and make the framerate and size the kind you need. It's simple.

Load your video in TMPEG, hit Configure and in the Advanced tab, do as such:

1. Set video source type to Non-interlaced.
2. Set the feild order. To do this, do as such:
2a. Set the feild order to A and double click the Deinterlace filter.
2b. Set the box to Even/Odd feild (2x fps).
2c. press the arrow and watch the video.
2d. Go back to the advanced tab and set the feild order to B.
2e. Repeat steps 2b and 2c.
2f. Decide which is more smooth, A or B. Once you decide choose that feild order.
3. Set the source aspect ratio as 1:1.
4. Set the Image positioning meathod to Fit to frame (perspective aspect ratio.
5. Crop to your heart's content.
6. Make sure the Deinterlace filter is OFF! Double click Inverse telecine and check to see that your target is 24 fps (or whatever it shows as one step below what is your current framerate).
6a. Make sure that it is set to (remove horizontal lines) and Even/Odd feild (2x fps adaptive) or Even/Odd feild (2x fps animation adaptive) if what you're encoding is a cartoon .
6b. Hit Auto set. This will take a little while.
7. After that's done hit ok and go to the Video tab. Make sure the Stream type is MPEG-1, the resolution is 352 x 240, the aspect ratio is 4:3 525 line (NTSC), the framerate is 29.97 fps, The rate control mode is CBR, the bitrate is 1150, and the Motion search accuracy is at highest.
8. Click the GOP structure tab. Make sure "Create bitstream for editing" is checked.
9. Goto the Audio Tab. Make sure the Stream type is MPEG-1 Audio Layer II, the Sampling frequency is 44100 Hz, the channel mode is Stereo (or dual channel if your system supports surround sound), and the bitrate is 224kbs.
10. Go to the system Tab. Click on MPEG-1 Video CD.
11. Click OK at the bottom.

Now just hit encode and it will make a valid MPEG file that you can use with NERO Burning ROM. In nero, choose to make a Video CD and load the file into there. If the file is to big, you can use TMPEG's MPEG tools (File > MPEG tools...) and cut the file in half (or in 3 peices if it is a really long movie).

WOW! That's a lot of typing.

[Clydesdale]

Taric, thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed reply. After posting my question I decided to just go ahead and burn the mpeg and see how it looked. Interestingly, it played back fine, colors and resolution were normal, except audio was out of sync. The audio sync problem is only when played back on my pioneer standalong dvd player. Using PowerDVD on the pc there is no audio sync problem. could this be caused by pal format or is this just another problem for me to figure out? :confused:

[Clydesdale]

By the way, if possible could you modify your instructions from vcd to svcd? Thanks :D

[ppera2]

Taric25: I must say that there is problem in your instructions.

You can not perform IVTC on PAL material, better said you can, but you get gerbage (choppy movement). IVTC is for restoring Film from NTSC.
Beause I'm in Europe I never made PAL>NTSC conversion, but made NTSC>PAL several times.

Anyway I will try it... Some general notes: 25 fps PAL is made from 24 fps Film by simple speed up (exact factor is 25/23.976). To get NTSC from PAL you need to slow down it and perform Telecine or 3:2 pulldown.

I just tried it... So, first step is to make 23.976 from 25 fps.
You can do it in Vdub: select no Audio, direct stream copy for Video and at Video, Frame rate change it to 23.976. Save it as AVI. Sound must be proceed separately: extract it from AVI to WAV and perform time stretch by factor 25/23.976 = 1.042709. It will ensure A/V sync.
You can do it with Sound Forge, Wave Lab etc...

Now you can go to TMPGenc and load AVI and corrected WAV. (Video & audio source). Set output size etc. and check 3:2 pulldown at Setting, Advanced - you will see that framerate changes to 29.97 at Video tab.

It is regardless what you make: VCD or SVCD, this methode will ensure perfect sync and smooth movement. You have templates for preset NTSC VCD or SVCD.

And one note more: that marking of PAL or NTSC by DVD's has no any connection to colour system. This is used only because of framerate and size.

[Taric25]

Wait a minute. Is there no way to to PAL > NTSC without touching the audio and maintaining an AV sync? You said that IVTC can't be preformed on PAL, so how does one un-speed up the video without affecting the audio?

Well, I used to do IVTC and I never experianced any jerky movement (believe me, I've had to use interlaced 20 fps DivX files and then I have made them 100% compatible). Couldn't one just use VirtualDub and decimate the framerate by 1.0416666666666666666666666666667? That would take 24 out of every 25 frames and you could change the framerate to 29.97, or leave it at that if you have a progressive scan television.:D This way you won't have to speed up the audio. So, I think this is the best way to do PAL > NTSC.

TMPEG does this best. It's found on Doom9's downloads. Crop out the black bars at the top and bottom, and make the framerate and size the kind you need. It's simple. But use VirtualdDub to change the framerate first.

Load your video in TMPEG, hit Configure and in the Advanced tab, do as such:

1. Set video source type to Non-interlaced.
2. Set the feild order. To do this, do as such:
2a. Set the feild order to A and double click the Deinterlace filter.
2b. Set the box to Even/Odd feild (2x fps).
2c. press the arrow and watch the video.
2d. Go back to the advanced tab and set the feild order to B.
2e. Repeat steps 2b and 2c.
2f. Decide which is more smooth, A or B. Once you decide choose that feild order.
3. Set the source aspect ratio as 1:1.
4. Set the Image positioning meathod to Fit to frame (perspective aspect ratio).
5. Crop to your heart's content.
6. Make sure the Deinterlace filter is OFF!
7. After that's done hit ok and go to the Video tab. Make sure the Stream type is MPEG-2 Super Video CD, the resolution is 480 x 480, the aspect ratio is 4:3 525 line (NTSC), the framerate is 23.976 fps, The rate control mode is CBR, the bitrate is 2376, the video format is NTSC and with a 3:2 pulldown on playback (not interlaced), the DC coefficent is at 10, and the Motion search accuracy is at highest.
8. Click the GOP structure tab. Make sure "Create bitstream for editing" is checked.
9. Goto the Audio Tab. Make sure the Stream type is MPEG-1 Audio Layer II*, the Sampling frequency is 44100 Hz, the channel mode is Stereo (or dual channel if your system supports surround sound), and the bitrate is 224kbs.
10. Go to the system Tab. Click on MPEG-2 Super Video CD.
11. Click OK at the bottom.

*there is a way to have MPEG-2 Audio Layer II but it is very complicated.

Now just hit encode and it will make a valid MPEG file that you can use with NERO Burning ROM. In Nero, choose to make a Super Video CD and load the file into there. If the file is to big, you can use TMPEG's MPEG tools (File > MPEG tools...) and cut the file in half (or in 3 peices if it is a really long movie).

[ppera2]

Taric25, you should check it about IVTC in guides.

And that audio time stretch is not so hard, and goes pretty fast wih today's computers. I need only some 10 minutes for whole operation, including load, process and save.

[Taric25]

ppera,

I have read every single solitary guide Doom9 has on his site. The reason I don't like the time strech idea is because I don't think one should edit the audio the suit the video just because of a change of framerate. One should be able to change the framerate of video to suit whatever needs they have without changing the pitch in audio. I'm a pretty big stickler on audio, so I wouldn't want to change it.

[Clydesdale]

ok, let me see if I am understanding this :p

You both seem to recommend changing framerate from 25 to 23.976 in virtual dub. ppera suggests stretching audio (seems more like compression if we are going from 25 to 23.976) but taric says this is not necessary. It seems to me if we change framerate, that both audio and video must be changed or they will be out of sync.

What is the purpose of cropping? I have never done this. I have progressive scan tv that automatically letterboxes movies.

Also I thought multipass vbr is always superior to cbr...?

Tarik, your comment about dual channel mode interests me, too. Does this setting enable dolby digital surround sound?

Is my current audio sync problem (on standalone only, not on pc) due to pal encoding?

[ppera2]

The way to get correct NTSC is what I described.

VDub is required because you can't perform in TMPGenc at once changing framerate to 23.976 and 2:3 pulldown.

Btw. with that audio stretch you will restore in fact original audio, because by PAL it is faster.

Taric25: audio stretch is usually performed with 'preserve pitch' .

Purpose of cropping is to decrease size of video and with that ensure better pic at actual bitrate.

"Is my current audio sync problem (on standalone only, not on pc) due to pal encoding?"

There is no PAL encoding, it is only by analogue video. Also it is not because of picture size or similar, but because of bad conversion methode.

And I must say that TMPGenc can't convert audio from AVI file, it works OK only with separated WAV (at least by me).

Multipass vbr is of course better than cbr.

[Taric25]

@Clydesdale

Well, Dual Channel allows Dolby 2.0 (Dolby Pro-Logic) which can give you 4 channels of audio (3/1 [3 in front, 1 in back], I believe) . If you have Dolby Pro-logic II, you can get 3/2 (and a subwoffer) which would give you 5.1 surround sound from a Pro-logic source (like VHS). VCDs can have 2.0 which may be interprited be a decoder as Pro-logic (II) and could give you 3/1 (or 3/2 +LFE).

Dolby Digital on SVCD is possible. I am in no mood whatsoever to explain this in detail. Please read my post 6.1 DTS > multichannel MP2 (http://rilanparty.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1782) .

@ ppera

Okay, so a speedup is true for PAL, so are movies shorter in PAL than in NTSC?

[tenebrenz]

Yes, PAL movies are shorter by that 4% due to the speedup. This used to make me think most films were cut for video/dvd becuse I'd read somewhere that a film was 100mins long but the only version I could find was 96 minutes. Whereas the american version was the full 100 mins.
@ppera2 "audio stretch is usually performed with 'preserve pitch'"
I don't think this is a good idea as it will no doubt introduce artifacts to the audio, the 4% pitch change is not noticeable by most people except in a direct compare.

my 2 pence

[Taric25]

What if I record something in PAL?

Then to convert to NTSC wouldn't I use VirtualDub to Decimate the framerate by 1.0416666666666666666666666666667? This way I wouldn't effect the AV sync AND I wouldn't change the pitch of the audio.

But I thought That PAL was interlaced. Doesn't that mean out of every 25 frames one is interlaced?

[Clydesdale]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Taric25
[B]What if I record something in PAL?

Then to convert to NTSC wouldn't I use VirtualDub to Decimate the framerate by 1.0416666666666666666666666666667?


Where do you get this number? 25/23.976 = 1.042709376....

[Taric25]

@Clydesdale

I used 25/24. You are encoding to SVCD, so you need to insert a 2:3 pulldown flag to get it to 30fps, and then a dropframe flag to get it to 29.97 fps.

P.S. Remember to close your tags. ;)

[Clydesdale]

Hmm, these instructions seem to be written for another version of tmpgenc. I am using version 2.0 and have problems starting at 2b. The closest setting I can see to your "Even/Odd feild (2x fps)" below is "Even-Odd field (field)" and there is no way I can see to preview video in this window. You can move the slider bar to see still shots but that is all...?


Load your video in TMPEG, hit Configure and in the Advanced tab, do as such:

1. Set video source type to Non-interlaced.
2. Set the feild order. To do this, do as such:
2a. Set the feild order to A and double click the Deinterlace filter.
2b. Set the box to Even/Odd feild (2x fps).
2c. press the arrow and watch the video.

[Clydesdale]

In fact, I believe field order is irrevelant when video is noninterlaced.

[Taric25]

I use version 12a of TMPEG with an english patch. This version has no MPEG-2 30 day limit.

Doom9 has a guide (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/tmpg_procedures.htm#fieldorder) on how to do this feild order thing. I was confused on how to get that preview thing at first. As Doom9 says, "use the navigational buttons below the movie window to play the movie (it won't be real-time but that doesn't matter)."

And yes, feild order still matters.

[ppera2]

Originally posted by tenebrenz
@ppera2 "audio stretch is usually performed with 'preserve pitch'"
I don't think this is a good idea as it will no doubt introduce artifacts to the audio, the 4% pitch change is not noticeable by most people except in a direct compare.

my 2 pence

I don't think that in this case we should cary too much about artefacts. Source is DivX, with MP3 very likely...
I think that it is matter of taste how make timestretch...

Taric25: why you talk all time about deinterlace and IVTC ?
It has no much with this thread. And your methode with dropframe and decimate framerate will cause choppy movement.

[Clydesdale]

OK, I found a way to do this without audio sync problems but for some reason the quality of the video is much poorer than the original pal mpeg from the internet. Here's what worked for me:

I used tmpgenc to de-mux the original pal mpeg, then brought up the svcd-cq template (this may have come from doctor mercury of abm.utilities, not sure). I set min and max bitrate at 2532 and 300. I burned a sample clip rendered by tmpgenc but video was noisy and distorted, to the point where it would be too distracting to enjoy the movie. The quality of the pal mpeg on the pc looks quite acceptable so something is going wrong in the re-rendering. Maybe I will try the standard SuperVideoCD(NTSCFilm)template and see how that goes....any other suggestions appreciated.