?'s about "Audio" and "Output Size" in AutoGK: Converting TV series on DVD to DivX [Archive]

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Bosko

26th July 2006, 23:05

Hi,

I'm a newbie to this, but I've read all the faqs and tutorials on using AutoGK and did a search, but still have a couple basic questions I hope you can help me with. :)

Here's what I have:

Toshiba 25" TV (standard tube tv)
Philips DVP642/37 DivX Player (ESS chipset)
No Audio system
(...so no HI-Def TV or surround sound, etc.)

Here's what I want to do:
I own Veronica Mars Season 1 on DVD. I'd like to make a DivX back-up of the entire season, putting multiple episodes on DVD+Rs for convenience. Here's what I know about the set:

Widescreen Anamorphic, 1.78:1
Audio Track 1: English, Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround

I want to retain the aspect ratio. Whether or not the anamorphic part is retained, as I don't have a widescreen tv, I guess that doesn't matter (although, that might just be something that's a part of it anyways -- or does it have something to do with progressive vs. interlaced?).

I want to retain good picture quality, and I'd like to fit 8-12 shows on a DVD+R. (For comparison, I have seen a friend's DVD+R that was made of HDTV broadcasts of the show converted to DivX, the picture quality was excellent, and there were 12 episodes on one DVD+R, so I figure I should be able to get something similar from using the actual DVDs, is that correct?)

I have questions becuase the AutoGK tutorial is geared towards making XviD copies of movies onto CD. What I want to do is make DivX copies of TV shows onto DVD+R. So confustion results... :)

Questions:

1. I'm confused about the whole interlaced vs. progressive thing. I get the idea of what it is, but don't know how it relates (if at all) to what I want to do. Would my Veronica Mars dvds be one or the other? And would I need to do some kind of setting in AutoGK to match that in order to convert properly?

2. In the AutoGK Homepage Tutorial, it says that:

By default the first Audio track is chosen, but feel free to choose another of the audio tracks. If you go for more than 1 CD encode it will be included unchanged (not converted to MP3) with the video. However, if you are doing 1CD or less encode then it will be automatically converted to ABR MP3 (which is a form of VBR MP3) at 128 kbps.

...Since there's only one audio track, that'll be chosen. My question lies in whether or not it will (or should) be kept as "original audio" or converted to "mp3 audio". The explanation above refers to making a CD. Since I'm going to be burning a DVD+R with multiple episodes, what setting should I use for the audio? Or is it that the "original audio" is only used if it's AC3 -- and since this doesn't look like it is (it says Dolby Digital 2.0), it'll automatically be mp3? If that's the case, would I just then use the Output Audio type in Advance settings as "Auto"?

3. An even bigger questions involves "Select Output Size". The tutorial doesn't tell you what to do if you're doing multiple files of a TV show on DVD+R. So what options do I use here? What's going to give me a picture quality similar to that I saw on the DVD+R of the DivX conversions of the HDTV broadcasts?

I've seen the suggestion of nothing below 700MB. I'm guessing if you choose the 1/6 option (746MB), that this will allow me to fit 6 episodes on one DVD+R? Or is it better to enter 700MB into the "Custom Size"? (However, Six episodes doesn't seem like that many, when 12 nice-looking HDTV DivX files will fit on one DVD+R.) 320MB has also been suggested as a starting point. Any thoughts?

Perhaps someone here has converted a recent widescreen TV show on DVD to DivX to fit multiple episodes on one DVD+R and can suggest a good way to do this?

I have tried to follow all the rules about wording posts and what you need to look up first as much as possible. Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks! :)

More information can be found here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=113970

...this is where I originally posted a much longer post, with a variety of questions. However, I narrowed down what I needed to know and realized since I'm new, I should post here in the Newbie forum. I hope you don't feel this is a double-post, as it's not meant to be. Feel free to delete my original post/thread if necessary.

-- Bosko

CWR03

26th July 2006, 23:43

As BigDid already mentioned, your questions have all been asked and answered many times over, but I will give you a synopsis of some of the answers.

1) Audio selection (i. e. choice of original AC3 or MP3) is a matter of filesize and quality. VBR MP3 at 128 kb/s is a common choice and is more than adequate for most TV series. The primary reason most people choose original AC3 is because it can contain 5.1 surround, something most TV shows don't have. If Veronica Mars does, and you intend to take advantage of it, then keep the original audio. If not, use MP3.

2) File size selection is purely a matter of personal preference, and is also dependent on the chosen resolution. An example I can give you would be 640 x 356: if you choose that resolution and use 320MB file sizes, you'll probably have artifacts (large blocks of same color) in your encodes in scenes with high motion or lots of similar color such as smoke or fog. If you dropped them to 576 x 320 the same file size would probably have no artifacts, but you would lose some detail. All I can suggest is my own preference, which is to fit a season on two DVD's. Veronica Mars season 1 is 22 episodes, or 11 eps per disk, giving you about 400MB per episode. Encode one at that size and choose a resolution that suits it, and if it's not to your liking you can either change the resolution or the filesize. Yet another option is to use the quality setting, but you lose the ability to control the filesize.

3) Progressive or interlaced isn't of concern with AutoGK - the "auto" part takes care of that for you.

Bosko

27th July 2006, 00:26

As BigDid already mentioned, your questions have all been asked and answered many times over, but I will give you a synopsis of some of the answers.

Thanks for the recap. I did a search and didn't find my specific answers. (Guess my search abilities suck.) If you're willing to post links to threads that do address my questions, I'm more than willing to read 'em! :)

As stated, Veronica Mars has Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround, and I don't even have a surround system, so I guess I go with the mp3! :)
But to clarify:

1. Do I choose "Auto" in the Advance Options for "Output Audio Type"? Or do I specifically choose the VBR mp3 128kps option?

(1a. Earlier in the tutorial, it says it gives you ABR mp3, but in the Advance Options it says VBR mp3 -- I know ABR is a type of VBR, but why list it two different ways?)

2. If I leave it at auto, will it choose the mp3 or will it choose the AC3 (which, I take it, takes up more room)?

3. I saw posted in another thread that CBR audio is a helpful parameter with the 642 player. What's the difference between CBR and VBR and should I choose that instead?

Veronica Mars season 1 is 22 episodes, or 11 eps per disk, giving you about 400MB per episode. Encode one at that size and choose a resolution that suits it, and if it's not to your liking you can either change the resolution or the filesize.

4. But what's a resolution that suits it? (I don't understand what that means exactly...)

5. Why not just use the Auto setting here? What would the Auto setting give you as far as resolution goes if you chose 400MB per episode? What if you chose 700MB per episode (which would only be 6 episodes per disc)? (I only have a 25" Toshiba standard picture tube TV -- no HDTV or anything, if that has any bearing...)

6. I saw in another thread that the recommended max resolution 640*xxx (though this was for XviD, and I'm doing DivX). Should I set it to a max of 640 no matter what the file size?

7. What would the original resolution be of my dvds? (If you happen to know offhand what it would be...)

8. If there were 12 DivX files of HDTV broadcasts of Veronica Mars on one DVD+R (and those looked really good), what would the resolution have to have been? Does that correlate here? Or is it different because it's HDTV broadcasts?

Sorry, but I'm still a bit confused about the whole file size and resolution choice scenario. :(

Thanks for the help -- looking forward to hearing back! :)

CWR03

27th July 2006, 04:12

You really just need to do some experimenting with encodes, resolutions and file sizes. Your questions are all over the realm of encoding, and each question I answer spawns six more questions. As BigDid said in the other thread, get some encoding experience and most of your questions will be answered in the form of results.

Your question 8 above borders on a rule 6 violation.

ilovejedd

27th July 2006, 04:20

Bosko

27th July 2006, 05:16

Set the resolution to 640x352 (aspect ratio of 16:9 since Veronica Mars is widescreen). The first 11 episodes of Veronica Mars is 7hrs:46mins:24secs and the last 11 episodes is 7hrs:47mins:32sec so if you have 128kbps MP3 CBR, your target bitrate would be about 1180kbps.

Thanks for the helpful response and straight answers! It's much appreciated!

First, let me state that I never said the DivX disc of HDTV broadcasts was downloaded. I only said that a friend made a disc (as far as I know, he taped the episodes himself). Don't want to break any rules around here. :)

I don't actually enter the target bitrate anywhere, right? Does that 1180kbps come into play somewhere or is that something the program generates/handles?

Regarding audio, stick with MP3 CBR. You might experience out of sync audio/video if you go with VBR. I also have a DVP642 and I've had to remux some files to get rid of A/V sync issues.

So did you have to remux when using CBR as well? Will I need to do this? How is this done?

So, just to verify:

Select Output Size: What should this be? 4.7GB divided by 11 episodes = 427MB each. Should I put in 427MB into "Custom Size"? Or does that amount not take into account the audio, so maybe it should be a little lower? What did you use here?

Advanced Options - Output resolution settings: So I guess 640 goes here (and that will automatically make it 640x352, right?). But do I choose "Auto", "Minimum", "Fixed", or "Maximum" for the setting here (along with the 640).

http://www.autogk.me.uk/Pics/advanced.png

Advanced Options - Output Audio Type: So here I choose the last option of CBR at 128kbps, correct?

And I'll be using the DivX codec...

Hidden Options - .fps: I read this somewhere: When you take a *progressive* source and encode it as interlaced, in the Philips 642, if the frame rate is *not* 29.97, then there will be a very jerky playback. If the framerate is 29.97, then the interlace has no effect.
I don't know if the original VM dvds are "progressive" - but maybe when you choose the ESS mode in AutoGK, the framerate is automatically 29.97? Or, if not, do I need to change it to this. Or just go with whatever it automatically sets it at?

Any other settings/tweaks I should be aware of?

Thanks again, ilovejedd, for the response and help. I look forward to hearing back! Hope you don't mind the follow-up questions! :)

-- Bosko

ilovejedd

27th July 2006, 06:27

I don't actually enter the target bitrate anywhere, right? Does that 1180kbps come into play somewhere or is that something the program generates/handles?
I think the bitrate is probably something the program generates. I've never used AutoGK myself. I just run the decrypted VOB files through DGIndex using the following.

"C:\Program Files\DGMPGDec\dgindex.exe" -IF=[filename] -IA=6 -FO=0 -YR=1 -TN=1 -OM=3 -DRC=2 -DSD=0 -OF=[output] -AT=[C:\Program Files\DGMPGDec\Template.avs] -EXIT

So did you have to remux when using CBR as well? Will I need to do this? How is this done?
Nope. I had problems with files that have VBR audio, hence, before you start with conversion, I wanted to warn you to use CBR so you don't have to go through the trouble of remuxing.

Select Output Size: What should this be? 4.7GB divided by 11 episodes = 427MB each. Should I put in 427MB into "Custom Size"? Or does that amount not take into account the audio, so maybe it should be a little lower? What did you use here?
Actually, that should be 4.38GB (4485MB) divided by 11 episodes which gives you around 407MB per episode. Since, I do the batch conversion in VirtualDub (DGIndex generates an AVS script which I can open with VDub), I only need to enter the target bitrate in the compression settings. For AutoGK, I think it automatically takes into account the size of the audio so you just need to enter the target size for the whole file.

Advanced Options - Output resolution settings: So I guess 640 goes here (and that will automatically make it 640x352, right?). But do I choose "Auto", "Minimum", "Fixed", or "Maximum" for the setting here (along with the 640).
This, I'm just guessing, but from what I read here (http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/autogk-info.htm), I would go with fixed width 640 since you already know you want the resolution to be at 640x352.

Advanced Options - Output Audio Type: So here I choose the last option of CBR at 128kbps, correct?
That is correct.

And I'll be using the DivX codec...
XviD works fine, too, actually... So long as you don't use any of the fancy settings such as QPEL, etc.

Hidden Options - .fps: I read this somewhere: When you take a *progressive* source and encode it as interlaced, in the Philips 642, if the frame rate is *not* 29.97, then there will be a very jerky playback. If the framerate is 29.97, then the interlace has no effect.
I don't know if the original VM dvds are "progressive" - but maybe when you choose the ESS mode in AutoGK, the framerate is automatically 29.97? Or, if not, do I need to change it to this. Or just go with whatever it automatically sets it at?
LoL, it's a good thing I still have the whole season one of Veronica Mars on my hard drive (converting to MP4 AVC for my PSP). Anyhow, the episodes are a mix. Almost all episodes are hybrid with mostly Film except for episode 2 and 3 which are both pure NTSC. I think AutoGK automatically identifies what type of video the source is and processes it accordingly. If you're unsure about which option to use, I would suggest sticking with the default. Good luck on your ripping!

manono

27th July 2006, 06:28

Hi-

I'm kind of with CWR03 here. Just encode a few and a lot of your questions will get answered. It's been about 7 hours since you first posted. In that time you could have experimented by making some encodes of the show. Have you done even one?

Does that 1180kbps come into play somewhere or is that something the program generates/handles?

Bitrate directly correlates with filesize. You set a final filesize (400 MB or whatever), and you're also setting the bitrate.

So did you have to remux when using CBR as well? Will I need to do this? How is this done?

I take it he didn't have to remux because he chose CBR MP3.

But do I choose "Auto", "Minimum", "Fixed", or "Maximum" for the setting here (along with the 640).

ilovejedd said to choose 640 fixed. Me, I don't know if that's such a good idea, because at this point you don't know how well they compress. You could go ahead, follow his recommendation, and study the log afterwards to get the compress test percentage and see what AutoGK did. It's not like you're going to break anything by experimenting. If you're going to back up a whole bunch of these episodes, you might want to do some experimental encodes first to see which results look good to you.

Advanced Options - Output Audio Type: So here I choose the last option of CBR at 128kbps, correct?

Yes.

Leave the Hidden Options alone, since you don't know what you're doing. AutoGK will analyze the source and do what has to be done. I would almost bet Veronica Mars is Progressive 23.976fps (not having seen the DVDs or even ever having watched the show).

Should I put in 427MB into "Custom Size"?

If you want to fit 11 episodes onto 1 DVDR, then less. AutoGK takes the audio bitrate into account when choosing the final video filesize/bitrate. If you'd do some actual encoding and then go over the log afterwards, you'd know that.

ilovejedd

27th July 2006, 08:17

Yep, CWR03 and manono are right. I just gave you settings which would most likely be similar in quality with the HDTV broadcasts you watched since you seem to be a bit hesitant to experiment. It is ultimately up to you if the quality of the resulting videos are acceptable or not.

I tend to stick to specific resolutions for my encodes for the sake of uniformity. Usually 512x384 for 4:3 video, and 512x288 for 16:9. Using lower resolutions gives me a higher bit/(pixel*frame) value and I can't really notice the loss of detail when watching on a 27" CRT TV from 15 feet away.

An observation on the DVP642, using composite video to connect to the TV, there's a lot of blocking with DivX playback. When using component video, DivX playback quality becomes much better.

CWR03

27th July 2006, 10:52

Regarding the HDTV rips you've seen, you will not be able to match their quality. HDTV source is far superior to DVD quality (1920 x 1080 vs 740 x 480), and a better source will always yield a better end file with all other aspects the same.

Again, try an encode or two - I'd recommend ABR 128 kb/s MP3 if it plays in synch in your player. If it doesn't, and you want optimal audio quality, keep the original AC3. If you're using an older TV with a mono speaker, only then should you consider CBR MP3.

Select Output Size: What should this be? 4.7GB divided by 11 episodes = 427MB each. Should I put in 427MB into "Custom Size"? Or does that amount not take into account the audio, so maybe it should be a little lower? What did you use here?

Seriously, this string of questions is almost as if it was asked in a panic. For one thing, the capacity of a DVD-ROM is not 4.7GB, it's typically 4,700,372,992 bytes, which equates to 4,480MB. (Don't ask, Google it if you want to know more or don't believe me.) Divide that by 11 and you get 407MB. AutoGK includes the audio in that figure no matter what you choose, or if you let it decide for you, and it'll usually undersize the file by a MB or two so you won't likely have a problem fitting them to a disk.

Bosko

27th July 2006, 17:32

Thanks for all the replies, it's appreciated.

I'm of the mindset that it's better to get as much information as possible before starting than just jumping right in. Everyone's different. Also, I actually do not have the equipment to do this. It's at a friend's house -- and when I'm there I will have limited time to work on this, therefore, the more information I can gather beforehand the better, you know? I won't have time to experiment then post then wait for replies while I'm there.

Thanks again!

CWR03

27th July 2006, 22:12

Bosko

27th July 2006, 22:19

Then you should know before you begin that it takes many hours to encode a full disk of video with AutoGK. Hopefully your friend won't mind his/her computer being tied up for that time. Besides, once again, almost all of your questions will be answered after you've done a few test encodes and you've seen the results.

My friend is taking part of doing the encodes with me. But my time at their house is limited (meaning, like, a day -- whereas if you were at your own home, you could spend days and let stuff run overnight, etc. etc.).