can THEY tell if a movie has been ripped?

[ottobus]

I just went to my local video store to BUY a movie. I noticed a note on their door that said "WE CAN TELL IF THE MOVIES YOU RENT HAVE BEEN COPIED, WE WILL CALL THE AUTHORITIES".

Has anyone ever heard of this?

[check]

no they cant :p all ripping is is reading, you can't tell anything at all.

[ottobus]

I didnt think so. The owners of the store have told my neighbour that it will erase the disk. I have been doing this for years and have never erased one of my own disks.:p

[unskinnyboy]

Hehe, which place is this? Talk about scare tactics..

[laserfan]

Hehe, which place is this? Talk about scare tactics..Yeah, I'm imagining that it's a small shop that has seen its business drop way-off and is struggling with the reason.

Apart from locals who might copy & pass-around discs (which they should not be doing!) there are of course the new BB and Netflix services, not to mention sat. TV, that are likely eating-in to their customer base...

[ottobus]

Yea it is a small pizza/video store. I just thought it was funny, in such a small town they would do well to rent to pirates, it would probably boost there business. I copy my own dvds that I have bought. I am almost afraid to let anyone know that I can do it. It would get back to the store in no time. So the chances of people passing around burnt copies is pretty low.

[Waleska]

People who believe in that disk-erasing garbage, should be ignorant enough not to know how to backup a movie anyways :D

[Mug Funky]

what if you dub to VHS? :)

[Guest]

Didn't you guys know that reading with the laser erodes the pits slightly and by measuring the signal to noise ratio, they can tell if you have read certain areas of the disk that aren't read by normal players?

Sheesh, the ignorance around here. :)

[CWR03]

Really, it would be like the liberry posting a sign that reads "We can tell if you Xerox our books!"

[dani82]

you should tell the owner to remove that sign, cause it's pretty much like saying "yes people, it's actually possible to copy a movie"

piracy doesn't not hurt the rental business much, sharing does

[CWR03]

Perhaps they're using reverse psychology. If someone decides to start copying the DVDs they've rented, what will they most likely do? Go rent more DVDs to copy. I'm doubting they're that smart though.

[Mug Funky]

hehe... in the old days of VHS certain unscrupulous renters would not only make a dub of the rented tape, but they'd actually cut the tapes open and swap out the spools, so the store got a copy in the original case, and the renter gets an original in a generic case. pretty mean stuff... the kind of genius that honest people would never think of.

[mod]

That sign sounds like: "Hey, don't rent dvds here if you plan to copy them! Go to another shop, were they don't care! Don't worry for us, we don't need your money". :D

[gameplaya15143]

hehe... in the old days of VHS certain unscrupulous renters would not only make a dub of the rented tape, but they'd actually cut the tapes open and swap out the spools, so the store got a copy in the original case, and the renter gets an original in a generic case. pretty mean stuff... the kind of genius that honest people would never think of.
Not unless somebody else beat them to it :p
Then they got a 2nd (or 3rd, 4th, etc.) generation copy and put a 3rd (or 4th, 5th, etc.) generation copy back :rolleyes:

Either way, thats just funny :)

[squid_80]

I've been in a similar situation, had to explain to someone that a DVD-ROM is by definition read-only media, and that means nothing I do to it (within reason of course) is going to change the data on it.

[Waleska]

Didn't you guys know that reading with the laser erodes the pits slightly and by measuring the signal to noise ratio, they can tell if you have read certain areas of the disk that aren't read by normal players?

What do you mean by normal players?.

[CWR03]

What do you mean by normal players?.
Ignoring that what he said was completely in jest, I'm sure he meant PC DVD-ROM drives rather than standalone players.

[Hard Core Rikki]

Didn't you guys know that reading with the laser erodes the pits slightly and by measuring the signal to noise ratio, they can tell if you have read certain areas of the disk that aren't read by normal players?

Sheesh, the ignorance around here. :)


HOLY COW !! Is that for real ? Sure I'd never had it figured out.

I thought about something else, like:
- having an autorunning program that installs
- monitors if some applications are USED (cant be that difficult)
- saves the result locally with date+time of use
- mails those to a website/ftp folder owned by that rental shop
- autodeletes itself either after a fixed period, or a few days after the DVD wich it was installed from was not run (meaning it was returned).

[foxyshadis]

Spyware & rootkits never delete themselves. Once someone has a little unauthorized power over your system, they want total control.

And yes, that scheme is used all the time in games, especially Starforce. Occasionally music cds and movies (Sorpranos comes to mind) but not often, usually they try to break standards as much as possible instead.

It's an interesting theoretical question, whether weak read-once sectors could be developed that could test whether a normally impossible-to-reach PGC was read. Of course, to test them you'd have to read them! Perhaps you'd have to use a special very-low-power laser.

[Adub]

I am starting to get paranoid. Everyone stop talking!!!!! We cant let the "authorities" hear this!!! ;)

[Ebobtron]

@neuron2

Ha,ha ha ha ha erode the pits, ha ha ha ha I am still laughing.

Wow that is a good one.

[Shinigami-Sama]

Spyware & rootkits never delete themselves. Once someone has a little unauthorized power over your system, they want total control.

And yes, that scheme is used all the time in games, especially Starforce. Occasionally music cds and movies (Sorpranos comes to mind) but not often, usually they try to break standards as much as possible instead.

It's an interesting theoretical question, whether weak read-once sectors could be developed that could test whether a normally impossible-to-reach PGC was read. Of course, to test them you'd have to read them! Perhaps you'd have to use a special very-low-power laser.
differant wavelength to test?
a safe one?
it is an intersting idea though

[dvd man]

talk about calling your bluff.........

[Waleska]

Ignoring that what he said was completely in jest, I'm sure he meant PC DVD-ROM drives rather than standalone players.

So PC DVD-ROMs can read parts of a DVD that standalone players won't?.

[kururu]

maybe if you combined the above suggestions with some radioactive isotopes with relatively short half-lives sprinked throughout the disc, you could detect how quickly the last laser read the disc, and if it is above 1x speed, you could assume it was ripped and not watched.

[Guest]

Ha,ha ha ha ha You think I'm kidding? :)

[unskinnyboy]

maybe if you combined the above suggestions with some radioactive isotopes with relatively short half-lives sprinked throughout the disc, you could detect how quickly the last laser read the disc, and if it is above 1x speed, you could assume it was ripped and not watched.
Well, I could always claim that the disk was spun at >1x speeds because I had to rewind my DVD. Let the prosecution lawyer try telling me that I don't need to watch my movies from the beginning!

This is my high-end DVD rewinder I don't leave home without..

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1937/dvdrewisomed9dc.png

[mike_lee]

Rent some movies then take them back the next day with the complaint "I want my money back, these movies have been copied." Depending on how hip you look you might even be able to add, "like 20% of the brightness and color is gone." Watch how quickly they reverse themselves.

[foxyshadis]

Having actually seen copies at rental places I wonder how competent the clerks are at spotting them. Not the shiny blank dvds with magic marker, heh, but the semi-professional crud you find all over ebay & amazon, with full-color printed paper labels, but what's inside is the same ol' dvd shrink or dvd x copy output. I guess most people woudn't care, it still looks better than digital cable broadcasts.

Last time I spotted one I was checking out the clerk just shrugged, but I refused to take it anyway.

[Waleska]

Blockbuster DVD's are so badly damaged I don't think someone would be able to spot a non-eroded part anyways.

[SvenBent]

Rent some movies then take them back the next day with the complaint "I want my money back, these movies have been copied." Depending on how hip you look you might even be able to add, "like 20% of the brightness and color is gone." Watch how quickly they reverse themselves.

now this is just genius.
now they either have to pay you back or lose face and admit they are wrong.
win/win situation

[celtic_druid]

Then they can claim that they check for copying upon each return, so that if there was any copying done, it was done by you or say that they need to check, go out the back have a coffee or whatever, then return saying that no it hasn't been copied.

[clutch]

Just as likely as microsoft being able to monitor the circulation of a chain e-mail. FUD. Fear Uncertainty Doubt.

I got a chuckle out of that one.

Clutch

[blutach]

I fear this thread needs to be copied and stuck in Decrypting!!!

Regards

[Wilbert]

I fear this thread needs to be copied and stuck in Decrypting!!!
I did the first part for you :)

[tommazzo]

@neuron2

Just out of interest for optical media: is there really some erosion on the pits when they are read with a laser?

[blutach]

Just for a laugh fellow decrypters!

Have fun.

Regards

[Guest]

Just out of interest for optical media: is there really some erosion on the pits when they are read with a laser? Any such effect would be insignificant. I just made it up as a joke.

Theoretically, photon strikes could dislodge electrons from their outer shells, but they would be replaced by free electrons. The likelihood of dislodging whole atoms is negligible.

[blutach]

@neuron2

We decrypters require a bit of mirth, too :)

Regards

[WarDog]

Didn't you guys know that reading with the laser erodes the pits slightly and by measuring the signal to noise ratio, they can tell if you have read certain areas of the disk that aren't read by normal players?

Sheesh, the ignorance around here. :)
What a load of CRAP!

[tommazzo]

Any such effect would be insignificant. I just made it up as a joke.

Theoretically, photon strikes could dislodge electrons from their outer shells, but they would be replaced by free electrons. The likelihood of dislodging whole atoms is negligible.
Thanks for the heads up. Even though it would be insignificant it's still interesting to know that some change would be theoratically possible.

[blutach]

@tommazzo - quantum mechanics tells us that anything is possible since it is uncertain that a particle actually inhabits the space we think it inhabits - we can only tell you with a degree of certainty. In fact, we're not sure particles are particles! They are also waves.

I am not BS'ing here.

Regards

[strider01]

Honestly, i wouldn't take that notice seriously. It's just another scare tactic to encourage people not to copy the discs they've rented. Personally i think whoever came up with that sign has a sense of humor! lol :)
To put your minds at ease there is no real way of telling whether a disc has been ripped or just watched. If you play it in your laptop like i do, you'll most likely find that the drive reads the disc at more than 1x speed. In fact i find that quite annoying with mine because it makes the drive very noisy! :P
Bottom line is this.. if anyone can prove beyond reasonable doubt that a disc has been ripped and not watched, I expect Jenna Jameson to turn up at my front door that very day!! lol :P

[nwg]

They can tell when a movie has been copied when the copy gets returned instead of the original (as my friend did once). He got his membership cancelled. :D

[WarDog]

Give me a break!

Have you taken the time to noticed the ppl that work in a dvd rental store? Fifty percent of them have problems using the scanner gun and locationg the bar code to check your movies in and out and the othe half can't find there butts with both hands. You think they can tell your dvd you rented from them has been copied?

[Digga]

quantum mechanics tells us that anything is possible since it is uncertain that a particle actually inhabits the space we think it inhabits - we can only tell you with a degree of certainty. In fact, we're not sure particles are particles! They are also waves.I thought that the time and space information is considered to be present in two bodies that e.g. collide and are drawn away in a specific angle.
X -----> <-----Y
X -> <- Y
X*Y
Y <-- --> X
as the route that each body takes is dependent of the other one, the information about the other part must be present in each.
i.e. time and space information concerning any other body in the universe may be present in any single body there is...

so they must have found a way to see this theory working in practice and built a device that checks the location of the rented DVD, no doubt. THEY KNOW. ZMOG!!1 hide and run while you can.

and the wave-particle problem is truly amazing...

[mod]

I think that the complete msg is something like:

" We can know if the dvd has been copied!
...
...
...
...
no we can't, plz don't tell it anyone, it's terrible if they discover it "

The changes that the light makes to the surface of the disc are so little that discovering would require a not really cheap system.
BTW, opening the case and finding a verbatim dvd named "rent dvd copy" helps a lot :D

[StonedJuggalo]

The only disks that I know of that it would even be possible to tell are arccos disks (the 'suspect' sector that standalone's skip past, but ripping tries several times to read it), or flexplay DVD's. Those burn themselves up after ANY read, though. I guess they could make a sector similar to arccos on a flexplay that wouldn't self-destruct unless it was ripped, but those are the only two physical ways it would be plausible to even tell.

Hell, even if they DID, they'd have to have a device specifically made to check, and I've never seen one, and I don't think anyone here has ever heard of one either.