PAL OTA Mpeg-2 (DVD) to NTSC DVD

[alanisrox69]

Hi there,

I captured the Rockpalast OTA signal by WDR, I want to convert it to NTSC DVD, however, I'm having a little bit of trouble. I tried converting it direct to NTSC resolution, leaving the framerate 25fps and then doing "pulldown" so I wouldn't have to re-encode the audio, however, upon playing this back on my DVD player (I tried multiple players), it plays back jerky. I wanted to stay away from re-encoding the audio, but if I have to, I will...

Any help on a good script to use would be excellent! Here is a 10mb clip of what I'm trying to convert to aid you ...
http://216.120.231.15/~unprodi/jul.mpg

Thanks a lot folks!

-Derek-

[Guest]

How did you do the pulldown?

Did you deinterlace it first to make it progressive? You cannot apply pulldown to interlaced video.

[alanisrox69]

I used DGPulldown...

I forgot to mention, I encoded to NTSC resolution using a avs script fed through to CCE. Then loaded the mpeg into DGPulldown and changed the rate to 29.97fps.

Thanks!

-Derek-

[Guest]

You cannot apply pulldown to interlaced video.

[alanisrox69]

D'oh...thanks for that...

so what script would you reccomend I use to do this conversion? Thanks so much for helping!

-Derek-

[Guest]

You can use the DGPulldown method but add a deinterlacer to your script before the resizing:

leakkerneldeint(order=1)

[alanisrox69]

Would you mind posting a complete script to do PAL to NTSC? I don't think my script is the right one anyways...

Thanks!

-Derek-

[foxyshadis]

How much time are you willing to spend? As much as it takes to get the best possible results, something quick and dirty, or something in between?

Quick and dirty, as Donald implies, is:

Mpeg2Source("my.d2v")
LeakKernelDeint(order=1)
# other filters, if any

followed by DGPulldown.

In the other corner, we have mv compensation (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=113256), specifically this (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=849833&postcount=11), which is basically the slowest and most professional quality you could get with avisynth.

In between there's simpler options like:

LeakKernelBob(order=1)
# other filters, if any
ChangeFPS(59.94) # or convertfps if you like blends
assumetff().separatefields().selectevery(4,0,3).weave()

which will get you somewhat smoother motion on a regular tv than deinterlace+pulldown. (But it'll need some more bitrate; blends will need a lot more bitrate.)

[alanisrox69]

No, I definately want the BEST quality! I will be using CCE 9-pass like I always do at a bitrate of 9435kbps leaving enough room for the 224kbps audio...

Thanks so much for taking time to help me! Feel free to share with me a full blown best quality script to do PAL to NTSC! Thanks!!

-Derek-

[foxyshadis]

I know CCE has a bad rate-control, but that's pretty silly, when 3- or 4-pass is the most that makes any difference at mid-low rates, let alone high (not that there's much rate to control if you're just giving it the maximum bitrate!)... oh well, just make sure you extract to a lossless file before you try encoding anything, running that avisynth script 9 times in a row on a full movie would take a month.

[alanisrox69]

The segment is only 20minutes...

WDR didn't air her whole performance sadly. Anyways...So I just use this script for the PAL to NTSC and that's it?
import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\mvbob\mvbob.avs")
MPEG2Source("I:\Gucci NTSC M2Vs\Alexander McQueen Women.d2v")
mvbob()
loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\mvtools.dll")
vvbw=MVAnalyse(truemotion=true,blksize=8,delta=1,pel=2,isb=true,idx=3,chroma=true,sharp=1)
vvfw=MVAnalyse(truemotion=true,blksize=8,delta=1,pel=2,isb=false,idx=3,chroma=true,sharp=1)
vvbw2=MVAnalyse(last.Crop(4,4,-4,-4,true),truemotion=true,blksize=8,delta=1,pel=2,isb=true,idx=4,chroma=true,sharp=1)
vvfw2=MVAnalyse(last.Crop(4,4,-4,-4,true),truemotion=true,blksize=8,delta=1,pel=2,isb=false,idx=4,chroma=true,sharp=1)
MVFlowFPS2(last,vvbw,vvfw,vvbw2,vvfw2,idx=3,idx2=4,num=60,den=1)
assumefps(59.94)
converttoyuy2()
lanczos4resize(width,480)
assumetff().separatefields().selectevery(4,0,3).weave()

Thanks for your time!

-Derek-

[foxyshadis]

You can change

MVFlowFPS2(last,vvbw,vvfw,vvbw2,vvfw2,idx=3,idx2=4,num=60,den=1)
assumefps(59.94)

to

MVFlowFPS2(last,vvbw,vvfw,vvbw2,vvfw2,idx=3,idx2=4,num=60000,den=1001)

but basically yeah. Downloads were given for mvbob and mvtools in that thread, iirc.

[alanisrox69]

Thanks! I will def try that.

-Derek-

[alanisrox69]

Ran into a problem..."Script error: MVAnalyse does not have a name argument "sharp" (C:\Documents and Settings\Derek\Desktop\jul.avs, line 6).

I searched and found nothing...

Here's my script:
import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\mvbob\mvbob.avs")
loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Documents and Settings\Derek\Desktop\jul.d2v")
mvbob()
loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MVTools.dll")
vvbw=MVAnalyse(truemotion=true,blksize=8,delta=1,pel=2,isb=true,idx=3,chroma=true,sharp=1)
vvfw=MVAnalyse(truemotion=true,blksize=8,delta=1,pel=2,isb=false,idx=3,chroma=true,sharp=1)
vvbw2=MVAnalyse(last.Crop(4,4,-4,-4,true),truemotion=true,blksize=8,delta=1,pel=2,isb=true,idx=4,chroma=true,sharp=1)
vvfw2=MVAnalyse(last.Crop(4,4,-4,-4,true),truemotion=true,blksize=8,delta=1,pel=2,isb=false,idx=4,chroma=true,sharp=1)
MVFlowFPS2(last,vvbw,vvfw,vvbw2,vvfw2,idx=3,idx2=4,num=60000,den=1001)
converttoyuy2()
lanczos4resize(width,480)
assumetff().separatefields().selectevery(4,0,3).weave()

Any help, greatly appreciated! Thanks!

-Derek-

[foxyshadis]

I suspect your mvtools is out of date, it's hard because fizick has a couple of abandoned sites with old versions, but the latest is here:

http://avisynth.org.ru/mvtools/mvtools.html

http://avisynth.org.ru/ is his permanent home now.

[alanisrox69]

Thanks, I did realize this. Uninstalled everything I had and started from scratch. It now encodes, however, the output is weird on the "best" script. I can't explain it, but during fast movement of say the drum sticks, it's blurry and blotchy.

Screen cap of the original file.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8976/29oh.jpg
Screen cap of the converted file.
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5368/10iu2.jpg

This is using CCE 1-pass CBR, I did this just to test the output. Can you pinpoint the problem?

Thanks!

-Derek-

[Clown shoes]

Take a look at this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=113256
I think what your seeing is exactly the same issue as I have been dealing with. The motion compensation is not 100% fool proof. Very fast movement like your drummer's sticks or my fast moving Parkour shot http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=849873#post849873 are not going to be perfect. Trixter has a solution however.http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=850604#post850604 That solution is time consuming, but as far as I can tell the best available. It may be worth reading through the entire thread as it's aim was to find the best available solution to match expensive hardware standards conversions. The big question is whether you are willing to invest the huge amount of time needed to run these encodes.

Edit: I forgot to mention that motion issues like the one you pointed out will probably not be noticable when played back on a TV. In the same way that you would not see the drumsticks appear as in your first screen cap. The human eye will have difficulty seeing a problem that is potentialy occuring for only 1 30th of a second (less than 34 milliseconds) It is definately worth testing out on a TV before you try anything else.

Edit: lol. Sorry, I just realised Foxy already pointed you to my thread, so hopefully you've already had a good read through.

[foxyshadis]

That's the problem they talked about in that thread; one solution is to examine the entire output and replace scenes that come out with artifacts with a simpler step. A concert video is likely to have many of these, since motion is so discontinuous, so it might be better just to go with mvbob+changefps if it looks that bad often. (Didn't realize it was going to be something so exciting.)

[Guest]

Feel free to share with me a full blown best quality script to do PAL to NTSC! Please read and follow forum rules, specifically, rule 12: do not ask what's best. Thank you.

http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm

Don't forget that you will need to resample the audio if you go with the mo-comped stuff, something that is usually undesirable for music content.

[alanisrox69]

so it might be better just to go with mvbob+changefps if it looks that bad often. (Didn't realize it was going to be something so exciting.)

Would you mind suggesting a script?

Thanks for everyone's input so far! You guys rock!

-Derek-

[Trixter]

Don't forget that you will need to resample the audio if you go with the mo-comped stuff, something that is usually undesirable for music content.

Huh? I've never had to do that. I did a 2.5 hour mocomped conversion (all six episodes of The Unpleasent World of Penn & Teller, took 19 hours) and audio sync and pitch was perfect all the way through. I used num=60000,dem=1001 -- maybe you're thinking of the convert-to-60-then-assume-59.94 route? But even that should preserve sync, and the resulting audio shift will only be noticable to people with perfect pitch (1 out of 10,000 people).

Just curious what experiences you've had to make that statement...