Adjusting Beta Viewer percentage slider

[cobo]

Is there a way to move the Beta Viewer percentage slider more precisely - say in 0.1 increments? The best way I can find so far is to set it over the percentage I want it at and click the middle mouse button, which moves it down in 0.3 increments. When setting it for the total disk the difference between 4.35GB and 4.37GB is 0.3% but I'd prefer to set it to 4.36GB and as it is I have to make several attempts before I hit it just right.

[jdobbs]

Unfortunately the granularity of the slider is limited to movement of the slider/mouse -- which can only be one pixel at a time (on your screen). If I wanted to make it more granular, the slider would have to be much bigger.

The reason I didn't make it bigger is because a .3% difference is much more granular than the accuracy of the encoder that will be outputting the M2V files. What you end up doing is "measuring with a micrometer and cutting with an axe." Just get it close to what you want without going over and you should be good. If you select 4.36 or 4.37 there's a chance you may get too big.

[rendez2k]

Maybe there should be away to type the value in? Also, I was thinking there could be an option to evenly distribute the saved bitrate to the other 'untouched' segments?

[jdobbs]

That's a good idea.

[steptoe]

I like the idea of altering the bitrate using the new editor, but as I had to then go back and manually alter the bitrate of the things I wanted the extra bitrate for, having the "feature" that altering the bitrate in one section then automatically spreads out that bitrate you've just gained across the rest of the other parts of the DVD you are working on is a much better idea than having to do guess work and go back and fiddle with the bitrate you've just gained to evenly spread it across the rest of the DVD


Especially on episode discs where say you reduce the bitrate or even blank the stuff you are not interested in, anything gained you know will then be spread across the rest of the project without going over the DVD limits


Basically after all that rambling, having an automatic feature to spread gained bitrate across a project for the new editor is a great idea, if it can be added

[hirez80]

after some testing, i can totally agree.. I simply want to blank/rip whatever and spread it evenly on the remains..

And frankly, thats usualy the though behind blanking, you want the rest to be better, otherwise you would have blanked out that as well or lived with it getting higher bitrate..

would be a great function :)

btw. this is a BETA slider.. when do you think a final version will come out which is ok to use daily?

[writersblock29]

What I think would be a nice new feature now that we can select the bitrate of individual titlesets, is the option to alter the filter editor per VTS as well. This way, if you have extras that only have bitrates in the 2K area, you can add filters or maybe even half D1 it since you can pretty much guarantee shoddy quality if you left it alone. I know that RBOpt will let you do this currently -- and I don't mind using it -- but it'd still be cool to do it within Rebuilder.

I love, by the way, the direction Rebuilder's heading. This is the software we all dreamed someone would come up with for quite some time!

[cobo]

Suddenly the slider's behaving differently for me. Simply clicking it with either the left or middle mouse buttons no longer makes it move down in any increment. Moving the slider the smallest change I can get in item reduction is 0.7 or 0.8 percent. I haven't installed anything or made changes to my settings.

I hope typing in the value is what you meant you thought was a good idea when you responded to rendez2k's post jdobbs. I'd like to have finer control over this without having to resort to setting Target Sectors. I understand the point you've made elsewhere that 50Mbs less isn't going to make any discernable difference to the video quality, but QuEnc (which is the encoder I use half of the time) usually undersizes by at least around that amount below RB's default target size with RB's default Target Sectors setting. And even if 100Mbs isn't going to make any more of a difference it satisfies an irrational need some of us have to get as close to the edge as possible.

[kRuZaDeR]

What files are modified and the changes made after modifying with the Beta Segment Viewer?

Just curious. I could probably do the sleuthing myself, may take sometime. Thanks.

[JFerguson]

Yes, I agree about granularity of the slider. For comparison, on DVD Shrink, once the slider has focus, you can use the left,right arrow keys to adjust it up and down (usually in .1% increments or less). It is a bigger slider, though.

Funny thing, his percentage box is editable (where you can type in percents), but it doesn't work -- only the slider does.

[jdobbs]

What files are modified and the changes made after modifying with the Beta Segment Viewer?

Just curious. I could probably do the sleuthing myself, may take sometime. Thanks.All affected AVS files and REBUILDER.ECL. Some changes are also made to the REBUILDER.INF file in the working folder.

[jdobbs]

Yes, I agree about granularity of the slider. For comparison, on DVD Shrink, once the slider has focus, you can use the left,right arrow keys to adjust it up and down (usually in .1% increments or less). It is a bigger slider, though.

Funny thing, his percentage box is editable (where you can type in percents), but it doesn't work -- only the slider does.That's a good idea (using the arrow keys for small increments). I'll see how hard that might be to implement.

[JohnGalt]

I think this has been mentioned elsewhere, but it would be great if we could still hit key "B" to blank a segment, and so forth. Also, I really miss that the segment list doesn't include bracketed tags like "[BLANKED]" anymore. That was really handy for getting an overview of what I've done. Any chance you could incorporate those tags into the treeview like you had 'em in the listview? Any chance that the treeview control throws a keypress event so that you could reintroduce the "B," etc.?

[jdobbs]

I'll look at it... in fact I'd planned on adding the text -- but must have forgotten to incorporate it.

[EvilAaron]

I just wanted to chime in and say how happy I am with this new addition's to DVD-RB Pro. This beta editor and a few other recent changes has promted me to re-donate. This program is becoming a dream come true.

Now if there can be some crafty way to make PAL-NTSC conversions work automaticly (hard as this could pose to be) or even semi auto would make it amazing (well actually it already is :D)

[JohnGalt]

Now if there can be some crafty way to make PAL-NTSC conversions work automaticly (hard as this could pose to be) or even semi auto would make it amazing (well actually it already is :D)

Here, here!

[laserfan]

Maybe there should be away to type the value in? Also, I was thinking there could be an option to evenly distribute the saved bitrate to the other 'untouched' segments?
That's a good idea.
Not sure jdobbs if you were agreeing to the first idea or the second, or both?

Re: the 2nd idea, I like to back-up my expensive HBO episode sets, which have easily identifiable (in the new editor) cells for Opening and Closing credits, with 3-4 episodes in a single VTS. It occurred to me I might reduce these by half-again, and allocate the "savings" to the program bodies, but there's really no way to do that presently.

OTOH this would provide maybe 0.03Gb back to the feature. So in the end it does not look worth doing (though I'd still love to see the option!). :p

[feedback]

Using DVDRB Pro., I was backing up a movie with the Fox H.E. matrix with CCE and decided I could make it better as it was a very high bitrate DVD with not much compression (90%).

So, I backed it up again with the Fox 2 matrix and was a bit happier with the outcome as I had also used the Beta Viewer to improve the bitrate on several segments.

I decided to run them both through 'Bitrate Viewer' and 'DGIndex' to check and compare the bitrate on the same VOB's on each disk. What got my attention was not the bitrate but the DC Precision. (Only Bitrate Viewer gave DC Precision, Maybe Neuron2 could be encouraged to add it to DGIndex).

The first backup, with no manipulation of the Beta Viewer gave a consistent DC 9 which I had ticked in Rebuilder Pro. The second disk in which I had also ticked DC 9 showed DC 10 on one VOB of about 1 gig.:confused:

I recalled that I had pushed the slider all the way to 100 percent on one approx. 5 minute segment so That segment must be at the orginal bitrate.

I guess my question is... if when increasing to 100 percent on a segment with the Beta Viewer will that segment also retain the DC precision of the Original DVD, which in this case was DC10, and thus influence the DC precision of the entire 1 gig VOB?

Regards,

P.S. I really like the Beta Viewer/Editor.:)

P.P.S. Forgot to indicate I was backing up movie only with v1.10.2

[GZZ]

It could also be nice to have a VTS divided into PGC, so instead of having to change like 5 cells individually, you could set the avg bitrate for the a given PGC. It would also be nice in the overall view to have the possibillity to disable a given VTS, lets says there is a VTS you want to keep untouched. Instead of playing around with VTS_min_Size in the ini file, then having the overview to show both VTS and PGC and the possibilty to set both individually pgc to "Keep Untouched", "Blank"...

I think it could be much more flexibel then it is at the moment.

GZZ

[skybl8zr]

just get it close to what you want without going over and you should be good. If you select 4.36 or 4.37 there's a chance you may get too big.
From DVD-RB Pro v1.10.5 I've begun to use the Beta Viewer which is a really welcome feature. I know it's Beta and there's room for improvement so I do not trust the feature completely for now - although I would like to and I'll probably use it anyway... :)

If I understand you correctly then it's not completely impossible to get a 4.37 output when selecting 4.35 in the Beta Viewer? Then if you want a 4.35 output it should be safer to select 4.33/4.34? I almost always get a 4.35 output with targetsectors 2255783 or the default setting when using ProCoder (the only encoder I've ever used with DVD-RB as it hasn't let me down yet ;)). With Beta Viewer I got a 4.34 and 4.37 output respectively with two different encoding jobs selecting 4.35. I don't mind a little undersizing like 4.34 but I'm just not comfortable with the oversized 4.37 output as I'm so used to a 4.35 output :)

I have my high hopes for this Video Segment Viewer/Editor and I suppose that the current "output inaccuracy" will be fixed in later versions...

[jdobbs]

The inaccuracy isn't in the editor, it is in the encoder(s). The bitrates specified by the editor, if followed exactly, will give you exactly the size shown in the editor. But no encoder gives you "exactly" what you specify.

The output isn't always over, it could be lower as well.

[laserfan]

I used the Viewer today to blank some stuff, and very carefully adjusted the slider to try to "give back" all the freed space to the main feature. Had 150Mb free space at the burn vs. my usual ~50Mb.

I'm educated enough to know not to sweat the 100Mb, no big deal, but it does seem like some fine-tuning of the adjustment method in RB would be in order, else folks with "shaking hands" will never be able to get this right! ;)

[JFerguson]

I used the Viewer today to blank some stuff, and very carefully adjusted the slider to try to "give back" all the freed space to the main feature. Had 150Mb free space at the burn vs. my usual ~50Mb.

I'm educated enough to know not to sweat the 100Mb, no big deal, but it does seem like some fine-tuning of the adjustment method in RB would be in order, else folks with "shaking hands" will never be able to get this right! ;)

I'm not so sure it's your shaky hand. Sounds like my problem (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=113378) with 40-Year-Old Virgin UR.

I'm still testing this...

[blutach]

I've found the idea is to find out how much you have to "play with" by blanking/reducing BR etc. Then undo the process (either by exiting without saving or unticking the blank or whatever) - in any event make sure you're back where you started.

Then (if you have exited) re-enter the preview/editor and up the slider on the whole title by (in laserfan's case 150Mb), a size the slider should be able to take care of.

Then, do your blanking/BR reduction in the cells that you want. Make sure you're not in the red and Save Settings.

A bit convoluted, but it works - have not oversized and my credits are encoded at 1500 or so.

Regards

[jdobbs]

The new version has the ability to make smaller changes. It will probably be released tomorrow.

[Voodoochild]

I've found the idea is to find out how much you have to "play with" by blanking/reducing BR etc.

This Exactly what I do, I do it only when the last title has credits, cause I don't want to lower bit rate from the movie. So if the last title is credits only I balnk it, see how much space it takes then move the slider back to 4.32g of all the titles, then unblank it and reduce the last one only..

[blutach]

You do know that you can split the cell Voodoo with tools like DVD Remake Pro (http://www.dimadsoft.com/dvdremakepro/index.php) (at the risk of doing pre-processing) so you can always have a cell with just the credits in it, if you wish.

I find that few DVDs have much movie in the credit cell anyway - maybe a few seconds lead in - but I acknowledge that others do.

Regards

[Voodoochild]

You do know that you can split the cell Voodoo with tools like DVD Remake Pro (http://www.dimadsoft.com/dvdremakepro/index.php)


Actually I didn't... :thanks: Usually if the last title contain both movie and credits I cut most of the credits with vobBlanker, to reduce size. I didn't know about dvdremake, I'll check it out,

10x Elad

[shoarthing]

This Exactly what I do, I do it only when the last title has credits, cause I don't want to lower bit rate from the movie. So if the last title is credits only I balnk it, see how much space it takes then move the slider back to 4.32g of all the titles, then unblank it and reduce the last one only.. . . hmm: seems a teensy bit complex - why not edit the DVDRB *.ini to a default of 4.38GB, then adjust the credits cell till the overall size estimate = 4.32 . . works OK here . . . so far :rolleyes:

[Voodoochild]

why not edit the DVDRB *.ini to a default of 4.38GB, then adjust the credits cell till the overall size estimate = 4.32

Only because I don't do it all the time, I do it when the last title is credits only.. but generaly speaking, you are write it can be done.

[blutach]

Forgot to mention that VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm) can also split cells :)

Oh, when you cut with VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm), there is a little error in the way it rebuilds time maps. I have let jsoto know this and he agrees. It rewrites the time map but does not alter the end of table pointer. The effect of this is DVD Rebuilder (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/) comes along and looks at the end of table pointer and fills up the time map to accommodate the right number of entries. What happens is the first few entries all point to the same sector. If you chopped off say 3 minutes at 3 seconds per entry (assume), thats 60 extra entries, all pointing to the same sector. So for the first 3 minutes of the movie, if you went back by say 5 seconds, it will take you back to the start!

Solution: After cutting with VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm), fix the time map for that VTS in PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html).

Note: DVD Remake Pro (http://www.dimadsoft.com/dvdremakepro/index.php) does not suffer this little error.

Regards

[Voodoochild]

Forgot to mention that VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm) can also split cells :)
...
Regards

blutach, I red your post about the timeMap, I did just that fixed it easily with pgcEdit. :), any way I have to get into VobBlanker (it's free after all..) and learn how to split cells that would be better solution, since It'll give me compleete backup with the end credits but won't be to big if reduced to minimum BR. There are movies that end credits can take more then 300MB... :thanks: Elad

[jdobbs]

Hmmm... maybe I should make it possible to split cells in DVD-RB? That way people can section off the credits.

[shoarthing]

Hmmm... maybe I should make it possible to split cells in DVD-RB? That way people can section off the credits. . . yes please :thanks:

[Voodoochild]

Hmmm... maybe I should make it possible to split cells in DVD-RB? That way people can section off the credits.

I doble that please :thanks: ;)

[Susana]

NOoo, credits is the best of most movies :rolleyes:

[jdobbs]

NOoo, credits is the best of most movies :rolleyes:Let me tell you, I've seen a few where this holds true. :)

[Rippraff]

I've just made some tests with the new editor.

There is no check mark for "Allocate saved space to feature" so you can't see if it's marked or not.
I guess this won't work if you want to save bitrate for parts of the feature itself say the credits, right?
Edit: Okay made some other tests, you have to do your changes first with the slider and then click on "Allocate saved space to feature". This will work also for the credits, except that it will increase the bitrate again a little by clicking "Allocate saved space to feature". Example: Credits original (75% reduction) BR 3,717 => move the slider to 31% BR 1,536 => "Allocate saved space to feature" BR rises up again to 1,621 for the credits cell. :)

The new fine tuning button works only in decreasing (<) but not in increasing (>) direction.

Cu Rippraff

[blutach]

The fine tuner in my instllation works in the increasing direction rippraff. There is no check mark, because it seems it is an action you do after you have edited the various segments. It's a single all-in-one action, rather than an on-the-fly thing (not that it couldn't be the latter).

I like the new beta changes and the restore to default. Well done jdobbs and thanks.

Regards

[jdobbs]

Both of the new menu items are there as a "push it to execute" option. If you push the "Allocate to Feature" button all spare space gets added to the feature. If you do more modifications -- you just click it again.

@blutach

You're very welcome.

One added note on the "<" and ">" buttons... if you hold the button down when you click on it, it will increment for you.

Example: Credits original (75% reduction) BR 3,717 => move the slider to 31% BR 1,536 => "Allocate saved space to feature" BR rises up again to 1,621 for the credits cell.

The "Feature" includes anything that is a part of the VTS... so I'm guessing you may have one where the "extra" is included in the same VTS as the feature.

Also, you may notice some odd behavior on the buttons when you try to work with a VTS containing stills. That's because stills can't be edited.

[Rippraff]

The fine tuner in my instllation works in the increasing direction rippraff.Interesting. :confused: There is no check mark, because it seems it is an action you do after you have edited the various segments. As I've posted in my edit. ;)

Cu Rippraff

[Voodoochild]

Now it's easy to adjust the slider, exactly how I want it. it works great both directions.
I splited the last cell (10x blutach) and now I'm reducing his size to 10% for saving some space
I didn't get the software on the Email though... I downloded it from Jdobbs site, probably "Q" in his mail server :D , 10x Elad

[jdobbs]

Yeah, it's still mailing. My mailer isn't the fastest piece of software... but it's reliable.

[Rippraff]

These edits get confusing... :D
One added note on the "<" and ">" buttons... if you hold the button down when you click on it, it will increment for you.
Not in my case. As I said it worked in the other direction, but if I click on ">" or hold it the value will increase plus 0.1% and stops then. After untouching the mouse the value jumps back to the old value (- 0.1%).
My OS is W2k by the way.

The "Feature" includes anything that is a part of the VTS... so I'm guessing you may have one where the "extra" is included in the same VTS as the feature.

Your guess is right as the credits are usually (always?) part of the feature. :D
This was only an example and answer to my own question: ;)
I guess this won't work if you want to save bitrate for parts of the feature itself say the credits, right?
Cu Rippraff

[jdobbs]

It will work if you blank them or make them slideshow -- but not if you simply change their values.

I guess I could add a "lock setting" checkbox that won't allow it to be changed while selected.

[Edit/Added Comment]

Rebuilder takes the left over space and allocates it to all the segments in the feature based upon their size at the time you pushed the button... so if you reduce it first it won't get as much as it would have before you reduced it.

[Voodoochild]

Not in my case. As I said it worked in the other direction, but if I click on ">" or hold it the value will increase plus 0.1% and stops then. After untouching the mouse the value jumps back to the old value (- 0.1%).
My OS is W2k by the way.


Very strange, I just checked your argument. Works very well both direction wether I hold the mouse down or just push it.
My OS is XP.
Try to restart the software, just an idea..

Any way I'm going to sleep and my computer needs to work :-) on the new backup, talk to u tomorow.

regards Elad

[jdobbs]

I tested it on Windows 2000... try another segment.

[Rippraff]

It will work if you blank them or make them slideshow -- but not if you simply change their values.
@jdobbs
:confused:

It works also with changing the values.
AgainThis will work also for the credits, except that it will increase the bitrate again a little by clicking "Allocate saved space to feature". Example: Credits original (75% reduction) BR 3,717 => move the slider to 31% BR 1,536 => "Allocate saved space to feature" BR rises up again to 1,621 for the credits cell.
You can decrease the values for the last cell (credits), after pushing "Allocate saved space to feature" it will be increased again, but only a little as the presaved bitrate will be allocated to all cells of the feature.

Cu Rippraff

Edit: I've tried it with different segments, always the same.

[jdobbs]

Read my edit in Post #45 (we were typing at the same time).

Could you try a different disc then... I can't imagine why it would not react to your click... in fact it uses the same subroutine as the "<" button...

One thing.. It may not allow the bitrate to go above the original.

[Voodoochild]

You can decrease the values for the last cell (credits), after pushing "Allocate saved space to feature" it will be increased again, but only a little as the presaved bitrate will be allocated to all cells of the feature.


You are write Rippraff, just tried it. It added a bit to all cells resulting in 1 more bit to the last cell (in my case), but it saved space and added bit to all cells as you say