Die Another Day bitrate after stripping angle

[nashcity]

I was backing up Die Another Day (James Bond) and I noticed that the film contain 2 angles. The 1st angle contains the regular film, the 2nd contains special features and pop up during certain times in the film (sort of like the infinifilm thing but without User input to engage the features).

The problem with keeping both of the angles is that the 2nd angle needed an extra audio track to go along with it. So, basically the difference in size ends up being aroung 1 gig (video + audio) if I decided to keep/strip the 2nd angle.

I stripped the 2nd angle using CloneDVD2 (as well as all other extras) and then used DVDRB to encode the movie. I used 4-pass CCE with default settings. The compression % was 79.9% (pretty good I would have thought). The backup went without a hitch, but......

My problem is this: HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 7,222/400/2,913 Kbs

2913? Shouldn't this be significantly higher? Does the stripped 2nd angle skew this number?

[jdobbs]

Not if you used the source that had already been stripped. Are there a lot of extras on the disc?

[nashcity]

There were quite a few extras on the disc, but I stripped them all (I know I shouldn't pre-process but I do). All that's left is the 1st angle of the movie and the DTS track. Keeping both angles would have resulted in a size of 6.3 g before using dvdrb, stripping the angle results in a size of 5.2 g before dvdrb.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say I used the source that had already been stripped. Am I wrong in assuming the bitrate of the 1st angle untouched should be quite high? That's why I'm surprised at the 2913 typical bitrate at 79.9% compression since that's the only thing left on the disc. The Menu is quite small as well (100 mb).

Note: I did enable Menu Encoding, could this have skewed the bitrate?

Thanks for the help.

[manono]

Hi-

Am I wrong in assuming the bitrate of the 1st angle untouched should be quite high?

Yes, you're wrong, as by my calculations the original video bitrate is only 3640 or so, pretty low for a retail DVD. The problem is that DTS track, plus the 2 commentary tracks, the French and Spanish tracks and the DD 5.1 English track the R1 DVD contains. All these cut into the bits available for the video, and also force lowering the max video bitrate to dangerously low levels

Since that DTS track takes up 730 MB or so, and the menu you said is another 100+ MB, and you have overhead, that doesn't leave much for the video bitrate when recompressing for 4425 MB or so. You could always dump the DTS track for the DD 5.1 and free up those extra bits for the video. Would you even need to reencode it if you did that?

When you reencoded, did you come out with the usual 4.31-4.32 GB?

[nashcity]

Thanks for the bitrate info. Yes the re-encode was fine and the sizing was good.

I would still need to reencode the video if I kept the DD 5.1 and Angle 1 only, but I'd only be about 300 MB over. Angle 2 adds an extra 1 gig or so.

I think I'll keep it as is. I've fallen in love with DTS and I'll keep it for most action movies. My only concern was the bitrate but you answered that for me. Strange for a retail DVD to have such a low bitrate, especially considering its a high action Bond film. I would have definitely expected a retail bitrate upwards of 4000-4500 for film like this.

[nashcity]

I've been playing around with this and this is what I found:

1. Angle 1 + DTS only (total size: 5.14 g) = 2913 Kbs average bitrate after encoding (compression: 79.9%)
2. Angle 1 + Angle 2 + DD 5.1 only (total size: 5.56 g) = 3209 Kbs average bitrate after encoding (compression: 74.6%)
3. Angle 1 + DD 5.1 only (total size: 4.79 g) = 3209 Kbs average bitrate after encoding (compression: 88.1%)

It seems that the bitrate of Angle 2 is greater than Angle 1, so even though you gain 800+ mb by stripping angle 2, the bitrate remains the same.

What this means to me is that even though the average bitrate appears better using option 2 over option 1, the actual bitrate of angle 1 (which is the actual movie) is better using option 1. I think it has to be since the compression % is better.

Am I missing something here?

[jdobbs]

That just means that angle 2 uses about the same amount of space as the DTS. I think you may be confusing how angles work... you could have two different angles that are 90% identical and use the same cells for the identical parts, so removing one complete angle might only save 10% if the space.

It wouldn't be at all unusual, by the way, for a DTS stream to use 800MB.. DTS is a real bitrate hog -- I personally never keep it.

The bottom line is: Does it size correctly when you run it? If so, it has to be calculating it right.

[nashcity]

My sizing is good. Yes the DTS track is a whopping 850 mb. I think the compression % is whats confusing me. I understand what you're saying about the angle.

In my previous post, why would the bitrate stay the same when I stripped the 2nd angle (example 2 and 3)? It saves me about 800 mb of space if I strip it. The compression % is 74.6 vs 88.1.

[jdobbs]

Are you sure you didn't accidently keep the DTS in the last one -- that would explain it. It isn't likely that the other angle would have a different bitrate -- angles are very closely matched. Are you sure it's actually "angles" or is it seamless branching? In seamless branching there could be a huge difference in length and bitrate between the two ILVU streams.

(Actually looking back at your description it sounds more like seamless branching -- that could explain it).

[nashcity]

Well I've run it through Vobblanker, CloneDVD2, as well as DVDRB and they all suggest it is multiangle. I made sure I didn't accidently keep the DTS on the 3rd example.

The seamless branching thing does make the most sense. I'll just assume this is the case and try to move on :)