Undersized, undersized, undersized...please help

[brownstem]

Hi, I'm using 2.27 and have used previous versions more or less without difficulty for a couple of years. My problem is that lately I've been specifying an Xvid output size of around 630-670MB (I'm putting 12-13 TV episodes onto one double-layer disc for play in my standalone) with mpg or vob input files of around 2-3GB, and I'm getting undersized output files (anywhere from 450-570MB). This seems to happen whether I let AutoGK automatically determine the width or if I specify it myself (I often choose "max of 624" since it prevents my Philips standalone from displaying the resulting 16x9 avi files as full-screen). All the input mpeg/vobs are 16x9 source and either dvd-rips or stuff I've recorded myself via analog inputs from my high def cable box. It's not as if the resulting avis are bad quality, I just can't figure out why they aren't the specified size (and, thus, presumably better quality). I've tried uninstalling/reinstalling Xvid a couple of times, even un/re the full AutoGK bundle. Still get the same problem. Anyone have any tips? Thanks in advance.

[CWR03]

Please post your AutoGK log.

[brownstem]

OK, here's an example. I've got many more or less the same. Thx.

[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] AutoGK 2.27
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] OS: WinXP (5.1.2600).2
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Job started.
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Input file: C:\DEADWOOD_11\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Output file: H:\deadwood 2 avis\11.avi
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Output codec: XviD
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Audio 1: Audio Stream 1 AC3
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Subtitles: none
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Format: .AVI
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Target size: 675Mb
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Custom resolution settings: maximum width of 624 pixels
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Standalone support enabled: ESS
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Started encoding.
[5/30/2006 7:50:35 PM] Demuxing and indexing.
[5/30/2006 7:51:59 PM] Processing file: C:\DEADWOOD_11\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
[5/30/2006 7:51:59 PM] Source resolution: 720x480
[5/30/2006 7:51:59 PM] Found NTSC source.
[5/30/2006 7:51:59 PM] Source aspect ratio: 16:9
[5/30/2006 7:51:59 PM] Source seems to be pure FILM.
[5/30/2006 7:51:59 PM] Color correction enabled.
[5/30/2006 7:51:59 PM] Output will contain 63538 frames
[5/30/2006 7:51:59 PM] Decoding audio.
[5/30/2006 7:52:44 PM] Normalizing audio.
[5/30/2006 7:53:07 PM] Encoding audio.
[5/30/2006 7:59:17 PM] Audio1 size: 35,666,136 bytes (34.01 Mb)
[5/30/2006 7:59:17 PM] Overhead: 2,541,568 bytes (2.42 Mb)
[5/30/2006 7:59:17 PM] Video size: 669,581,096 bytes (638.56 Mb)
[5/30/2006 7:59:17 PM] Running compressibility test.
[5/30/2006 7:59:17 PM] Writing the following script to H:\deadwood 2 avis\agk_tmp\11_comptest.avs
===========================================================
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrainSSE3.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("H:\deadwood 2 avis\agk_tmp\11.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,aspect=0,threshold=34,samplestartframe=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 1.18518518518519
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 624
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,aspect=new_aspect,threshold=34,samplestartframe=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false)
SelectRangeEvery(300,15)
===========================================================
[5/30/2006 8:00:26 PM] Duration was: 1 minute, 9 seconds
[5/30/2006 8:00:26 PM] Speed was: 45.90 fps.
[5/30/2006 8:00:26 PM] Compressibility percentage is: 192.57
[5/30/2006 8:00:26 PM] Using sharper matrix
[5/30/2006 8:00:26 PM] Switching b-frames off
[5/30/2006 8:00:26 PM] Chosen resolution is: 624x352 ( AR: 1.77 )
[5/30/2006 8:00:26 PM] Predicted comptest value is: 130.24%
[5/30/2006 8:00:26 PM] Running first pass.
[5/30/2006 8:00:26 PM] Writing the following script to H:\deadwood 2 avis\agk_tmp\11_movie.avs
===========================================================
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrainSSE3.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("H:\deadwood 2 avis\agk_tmp\11.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,aspect=0,threshold=34,samplestartframe=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 1.18518518518519
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 624
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,aspect=new_aspect,threshold=34,samplestartframe=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false)
===========================================================
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] Duration was: 15 minutes 33 seconds
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] Speed was: 68.05 fps.
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] Expected quality of first pass size: 140.17%
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] Trying to adjust settings.
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] No adjustment is possible
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] Warning: final AVI will likely be undersized.
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] Running second pass.
[5/30/2006 8:35:14 PM] Duration was: 19 minutes 14 seconds
[5/30/2006 8:35:14 PM] Speed was: 55.04 fps.
[5/30/2006 8:35:14 PM] Job finished. Total time: 44 minutes 39 seconds

[CWR03]

[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] Expected quality of first pass size: 140.17%
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] Trying to adjust settings.
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] No adjustment is possible
[5/30/2006 8:16:00 PM] Warning: final AVI will likely be undersized.
It's a simple matter of there being no need to make a larger file. If you're maintaining the aspect ratio of the original video, there's no need to aim for a larger file, otherwise you can increase it which is the only way you'll get a better (and bigger) output.

Edit: I guess I could've read more of your log, as I see now that you're working with DVD content. In any case, increasing the resolution will be the only way to get a larger file with AutoGK.

[brownstem]

It's a simple matter of there being no need to make a larger file. If you're maintaining the aspect ratio of the original video, there's no need to aim for a larger file, otherwise you can increase it which is the only way you'll get a better (and bigger) output.

Edit: I guess I could've read more of your log, as I see now that you're working with DVD content. In any case, increasing the resolution will be the only way to get a larger file with AutoGK.
Thanks. I did read the log, though didn't know why it was incapable of increasing the size. Seems intuitive to me that the larger the size you're asking for the better the quality could be irrespective of the AR. But anyway.

But why does this explain the undersizing when I let it choose the width itself? The same file came out with a width of 720 when I didn't specify a maximum, and it's still undersized. Same reason, I presume? And to follow that line of thinking, in cases such as this should I just specify maximum quality instead of putting in a specific target size (since it's going to come out under that size anyway)?

[BigDid]

Hi, maybe CWR03 went to sleep so I'll jump in :)

...The same file came out with a width of 720 when I didn't specify a maximum, and it's still undersized. Same reason, I presume?
Yes. I suppose you did encounter this problem more than one time; you can:
- lower your file size(+/- half size) and let AGK decide of the width
- raise the audio size (more bitrate or Keep AC3)
- mix of the two
with the advantage that once good params are found they will be re-usable :)

And to follow that line of thinking, in cases such as this should I just specify maximum quality instead of putting in a specific target size (since it's going to come out under that size anyway)?
Yes, except you have no control over the size when choosing 1 pass quality encode: trial and error until right size is attained ::sly:

Same problem as in this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111819
Same solution(s) may apply.

Did

[brownstem]

Thanks, Did. Just to investigate further I decided to compare the logs of two different sources I had run through with the same targets (those being max 624 width, Xvid, auto audio, and size of 675MB). The first was a Deadwood episode I just ripped from a dvd using decrypter into one big vob file (that's the log above). The second, which came out very close to the target size, was an episode of Rescue Me which I had also ripped with decrypter, but I had ripped the whole disc in file mode and had done one extra step before using AutoGK: I had run the two or three vobs which contained the episode through Womble to generate one mpg file to feed to AutoGK. Apparently this makes a huge difference. Either that, or the dvd sources were quite different. It may be the latter because Wombled mpg files of stuff I recorded myself (Rome episodes off of my Motorola HD hard drive) and used as sources also came out small, so it's not as if "womble-izing" guarantees I'll get the output I want. I guess I've always had this issue but didn't realize it since only lately have I tried making 40-55 minute long Xvids of larger than the "standard" 350MB. I guess I'll "pump up the volume," so to speak, and see if I can keep the ac3 audio. My whole goal is simply to put 12-13 episodes onto one double-layer disc with the best quality possible. Funny that "best quality" may mean I don't even use the whole disc! Thanks for your help.

[BigDid]

... My whole goal is simply to put 12-13 episodes onto one double-layer disc with the best quality possible. Funny that "best quality" may mean I don't even use the whole disc!
Hi,

One step further, go for 14 or even 15 episodes by dvd. 15 will give you 540Mb per episode and I am quite sure with auto-width you will get between 640 to 704 width, with original or high bitrate audio; maybe sometimes still undersized :D

Thanks for your help.
You are welcome. Bye.

Did

[brownstem]

Hi,

One step further, go for 14 or even 15 episodes by dvd. 15 will give you 540Mb per episode and I am quite sure with auto-width you will get between 640 to 704 width, with original or high bitrate audio; maybe sometimes still undersized :D


You are welcome. Bye.

DidGood idea, except for two things. One, the stuff I'm backing up only has 12 or 13 eps per season. Two, my standalone (Philips DVP642) can't properly display files where the width is greater than 624 on my analog 4:3 TV. Anything bigger gets blown up, fills the entire screen, and I end up essentially pan and scanning a 16x9 source. Of course, if I'd simply dump the bucks on a sweet HDTV I wouldn't have to worry about it :D :thanks:

[CWR03]

Thanks for jumping in, BigDid - actually I went to work. Besides, your explanations are usually more thorough than mine.

brownstem, if you want to try and boost quality a bit, switch to the full Gordian Knot. It's a lot to learn, but the results are worthwhile, plus you can improve quite a bit on the quality of your encodes and utilize that filesize you've been wanting to. Since AutoGK manages the XviD codec for you there's little to nothing you can do to improve quality, but with another encoder you can do a lot more to enhance it.

Off-topic, are you working with the Rescue Me season one disks? I wanted to buy it, but the specs say there are only 12 episodes when there were 13 aired. If they shorted the box set I'd be ticked.

[BigDid]

Thanks for jumping in, BigDid - actually I went to work. Besides, your explanations are usually more thorough than mine...
You are welcome :)

...Two, my standalone (Philips DVP642) can't properly display files where the width is greater than 624 on my analog 4:3 TV...

:D This is the heart of the problem. As long as you have a SAP with an ESS chip you'll have to stick with ESS Option; even if you change encoding app you'll have to recreate the ESS conditions:
- H263 matrix
- Home theatre profile (bitrate maxxed at 4000kbp/s, packed bitstreams) see here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=830974#post830974

Please discard my prior suggestions which cannot be used for a SAP with an ESS chip or change SAP :D

Did

[brownstem]

brownstem, if you want to try and boost quality a bit, switch to the full Gordian Knot...

Off-topic, are you working with the Rescue Me season one disks? I wanted to buy it, but the specs say there are only 12 episodes when there were 13 aired. If they shorted the box set I'd be ticked.Thanks. First off, season one is 13 episodes (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/sitereviews.cfm?ReleaseID=4734), though I was actually talking about season two in this case.

As for GK, I've thought about that, but I'm probably not willing to put in the time to get through the learning curve. I spend far more time doing my own dvd creation and editing than creating avi files.

As long as you have a SAP with an ESS chip you'll have to stick with ESS Option...Yes. I hope I'm not short-changing myself in the long run. I now have a bunch of discs packed with 624-wide files, and I wonder how they'll look when I eventually upgrade to an HDTV and grab myself one of those nifty Oppo upconverting players that can also handle DivX/Xvid. In that case I'm sure I'll wish I had the greater auto resolution widths, but I've heard the upconverting on that unit is really, really good.

Thanks, guys. :thanks: