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View Full Version : Help Needed With Turtle Beach, Video Magician Problem


Dr Weed
23rd May 2006, 18:52
I've been lurking in this group on and off for a few months and finally decided to post because I've got a serious capture problem I'm hoping one of you guys can help me with. I'm on a deadline because I only have a week and a half left to return my latest capture card, so I'm in a bit of a hurry. Any help would be appreciated.

Basically, I've gotten really bad results with two top-of-the-line capture cards in a row because of jagged lines that wreck the picture. A few months ago I tried a Turtle Beach card and had to return it because the results were simply too poor to watch, by any standards. Now I've got one of those Video Magician cards and it's giving me essentially the same problem. Ironically, this dirt cheap Philips card that I got a year and a half ago actually gives me better results, because even though it has no comb filter and is too chock full of dot crawl to make usable DVDs, there are no jagged lines interrupting the picture.

After reading this forum it looks like it might be an interlacing problem. I've seen a few examples of interlacing posted on the Web and one variation looks like the slightly different but similar effect I got with the Turtle Beach card and another looks much like what I've gotten from the Video Magician. In both cases, the effect is diminished slightly but still present even when I switch from coax or composite to S-video. I can't figure out why I should be getting such bad results with either card, since the scores of reviews I've seen of both are overwhelmingly positive. No one mentioned anything remotely like this. I can see why both cards have gotten good reviews, because the quality seems like it *would* be quite good and nearly free of the dot crawl I get with my old Philips card - if only it weren't for the jagged lines surrounding the outlines of every object. It's so bad I don't see how anyone could bear it; it's not that I'm a video quality fanatic. It is impossible to even take vidcaps with either card, because the jagged lines literally remove chunks from the faces of the people on the screen that are big enough to be fatal, hah hah.

I want to stress that am getting this problem right in the preview window, before any recording is done; I can get good, faithful reproductions of whatever I see in the screen in any video clips I record or vidcaps I take, but unfortunately the interlacing (if that's what it is) is perfectly preserved as well. I have seen examples of interlacing produced in recordings by using improper settings with my old Philips card, but that's not the issue, because I'm getting good reproductions of bad input, not bad reproductions of good input. Changing my recording settings is unlikely to do any good for that reason.

The only thing I can think of is that there is some sort of unusual hardware or software conflict, but everything I have is supposed to be well above the minimum requirements for both the Turtle Beach and Video Magician cards:

My Hardware
------------------------
Athlon 2400
1.5 GB of 333 Mhz RAM
128 MB Rage Pro Ultra 4x AGP video card
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP Ultra motherboard
brand-new top of the line case (eliminated occasional minor ground looping)
One 80-gig drive and one 160-gig drive (space is not an issue)

Software
-----------------------
Windows XP Pro SP2
Direct X 9 (I ran the DXDiag diagnostic utility for tech support at Turtle Beach and they found nothing wrong)
Cyber Director 3.0, Power VCR II (I've tried PowerView Plus and VirtualDub and they both crashed my computer)

I've tried moving both cards to other PCI slots, with no success. I've also kept a careful eye on my Windows performance counters and my processor and memory usage rarely maxes out even when I record.

Sorry for the long initial post but I wanted to be as detailed as possible. I think my goose is probably cooked and I'll probably have to return the card, but I figured I'd see if one of the video capture geniuses here could suggest a solution first. The tech support at both companies has been fairly useless and most of you guys here seem to be far more knowledgeable.

Is there anything else I can try with this Video Magician card? Do you think it might be interlacing and if so, is there anything I can do to fix it? Why would I get that effect on two expensive cards, but not on the dirt cheap Philips one I own? If I can't fix it, what other card out on the market might suit my hardware and software better, and eliminate this interlacing problem while giving me better control over the dot crawl that plagued my Philips card (disclaimer: I didn't ask which card was "best", LOL)? After a year and a half of trying to get halfway decent capture capabilities on my computer so I can burn video backups, I'm pretty exasperated. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

-- Steve

Guest
23rd May 2006, 19:08
The dirt-cheap one is probably capturing only one field.

If you want to remove the interlacing you can use...wait for it...a deinterlacer.

Read here to learn about interlacing:

www.100fps.com

jggimi
23rd May 2006, 21:42
If you feel you need further analysis, please post (a) relatively small frame image(s) here.

Dr Weed
26th May 2006, 04:28
The dirt-cheap one is probably capturing only one field.

If you want to remove the interlacing you can use...wait for it...a deinterlacer.

Read here to learn about interlacing:

www.100fps.com

Thanks for the help. That website was actually how I came to suspect that it was some kind of interlacing issue - the top picture on that page looks almost exactly like the sort of trouble I had with the Turtle Beach card, and the one below it is pretty darn close to what I'm getting with the Video Magician. One thing I don't understand though is why my system in particular should be having this interlacing problem, since I haven't seen any similar complaints in any of the zillions of reviews I've read.

As long as I can find a solution, I won't care, LOL. :) I'm going to try the VirtualDub/Avisynth solution mentioned on that site, but I won't have time to really test it till this weekend. I deleted VirtualDub a few months ago because for some reason, it crashed my computer every time I used it with the Turtle Beach card (the same thing happens whenever I use PowerView Plus with the Video Magician one now).

I'll check it out and see what happens. Thanks again, I really appreciate it.


-- Steve

P.S. Question: Are there any other programs out there I can use to deinterlace my clips or preview window with besides VirtualDub, in case I can't get it to work?

jggimi
26th May 2006, 12:47
Have you read our Capture Guide (http://www.doom9.org/capture/start.html)? You might find Chapter 7 especially helpful; it includes deinterlacing procedures.

Dr Weed
26th May 2006, 18:16
Have you read our Capture Guide (http://www.doom9.org/capture/start.html)? You might find Chapter 7 especially helpful; it includes deinterlacing procedures.

The Capture Guide was a huge help to me, but I read it a few months ago and it was a lot to absorb all at once, so I suppose I didn't retain everything about deinterlacing. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll review it over the holiday weekend when I make my last-ditch attempt to get the card working before the return deadline.


Thanks,


-- Steve

Guest
26th May 2006, 18:26
You didn't respond to the request for a screenshot. Even better would be a small unprocessed sample clip.

Most likely the card is fine and you are just confused. We can quickly tell if that is the case if you show us a sample.

Dr Weed
28th May 2006, 01:39
You didn't respond to the request for a screenshot. Even better would be a small unprocessed sample clip.

Most likely the card is fine and you are just confused. We can quickly tell if that is the case if you show us a sample.

Sorry 'bout that, I didn't mean to be rude, I just got distracted unexpectedly during the week and didn't have time to reply to my own thread. Ironically, I was just searching the Net for your Telecide plugin, stopped in here and found the author himself replying to my thread already, LOL. :)

I'm going to try to post a sample here. If I get the tags wrong and it doesn't appear below, you can try the URL - this is my first attempt at posting pics, bear with me.

http://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5841&stc=1&d=1148775887


http://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5841&stc=1&d=1148775887

This is a pretty good example of the kind of interference I'm getting; in a capture file, the "mice teeth" effect is much worse because it moves. It looks a lot like some of pics of interlacing problems I've seen posted elsewhere. So far I'm not having much luck with VirtualDub's deinterlacers today, but will keep trying. Thanks for the help.

-- Steve

P.S. Never mind, for some reason the URLs I'm posting are being automatically truncated, which leaves the links invalid. I'll have to get back to you when I figure out what I'm doing wrong with the [img] tag.

P.S. #2 I'm trying your smart deinterlacer filter after I sign off :)

Guest
28th May 2006, 01:45
That is NOT interlacing. How did you make that screenshot? What did you capture from -- a VCR?

Can't you post a fragment of the unprocessed source AVI?

Dr Weed
28th May 2006, 22:03
That is NOT interlacing. How did you make that screenshot? What did you capture from -- a VCR?

Can't you post a fragment of the unprocessed source AVI?

I'm glad I asked then, LOL. That explains why I didn't get any results last night when I ran one of my clips through a zillion different combinations of deinterlacing settings in VirtualDub last night and got no results.

I captured from a VCR into the Video Magician card through composite (I still get the same effect, though reduced, with DVDs through S-Video) and took the screenshot in the preview window with CyberDirector software. Whenever I use any other software to capture video with - PowerView Plus, VirtualDub, Ulead, etc., my computer crashes immediately as soon as I the capture source to my card. That happened on the Turtle Beach card too.

I got the same effect when capturing from the Turtle Beach card with CyberDirector, except the jagged lines you see in the screenshot were more rounded. With both cards, the jagged lines move along the edges of objects just as they do in interlacing - especially when objects move. The effect isn't present at all in my cheap Philips card though, the one that's full of dot crawl.

I'd like to post a short clip but I don't see any options in my "attach files" to include anything but .zips, .txts and screenshots - it doesn't list .avi, .mpg or any other movie files as valid extensions. Any suggestions? :)

Thanks for your help. :)

-- Steve

Guest
28th May 2006, 23:51
If the screenshot accurately represents the AVI, then there's no need to see the AVI.

I have no idea what causes this. Sorry.

Boulder
30th May 2006, 08:00
I'd like to post a short clip but I don't see any options in my "attach files" to include anything but .zips, .txts and screenshots - it doesn't list .avi, .mpg or any other movie files as valid extensions. Any suggestions? :)

You could use a service like rapidshare.de and post the link here.

If you have problems with a crashing VDub, I recommend posting a thread at the VDub forum, forums.virtualdub.org.