Length inconsitancy between DVD and backup

[MasamuneXGP]

Hello all. I'm just getting into encoding and experimenting by making an mkv out of my copy of The Matrix Revolutions. First I followed the traditional path of DVD Decrypter > DGIndex > VirtualDubMod, but ran into a quite persistant problem with the audio being out of sync. After consulting Google, I found that running the DVD through DVD Shrink with no compression seemingly solved the problem.

However, there's still another problem: The video length of the .avs file produced by DGIndex (both before and after DVD Shrink) does not match the length of the DVD. When I play the DVD in Media Player Classic, it shows a length of 2:09:08. But VirtualDub shows the length of the .avs file to be 2:09:15. These seven extra seconds, while deeply confusing since the audio stays in sync, wouldn't be a problem normally. However, I was kinda hoping to have chapter support in my final mkv, and the length inconsistency screws up the chapter times output by Chapter-X-tractor. I guess I could write a simple program to calculate the multiplier, and modify the chapter times accordingly, but that's kinda stupid...

So... Where are these extra seven seconds coming from? Why do they not mess up the audio sync? What's the best way to make the chapter times correct? Thanks in advance for the help.

EDIT: I should mention that the seven seconds in question are not seven seconds of a black screen at the start or end of the video. When the video starts, the frametimes match, but at the end of it, it's seven seconds off. It has to be some kind of framerate issue, which is why I'm so confused about the audio sync.

[Guest]

What is the film % from the D2V file? What Field Operation mode did you use in DGIndex?

[MasamuneXGP]

Thanks for the reply. Previewing in DGIndex shows "Film 99 %" under the Video Type field.

As for Field Operation, I read that you should always use Force Film with film %s over 95, but I tried all three just to be sure.
Honor Pulldowns: Heavy Interlacing, 29.970fps, 2:09:15, Synced audio.
Ignore Pulldowns: Perfect Picture, 29.970fps, 1:43:24, Audio hilariously out of sync.
Forced Film: Perfect Picture, 23.976, 2:09:15, Synced audio.

Forced Film is obviously the best, but none of the above give me the actual video length of 2:09:08. Ideas?

[Guest]

Well, who's to say what the "actual length" is? How do you know MPC isn't wrong?

[MasamuneXGP]

Chapter-X-tractor backs up MPC.

Opening IFO file D:\Temp\The Matrix Revolutions\VTS_01_0.IFO OK.

[...]

Total film length : 02:09:07:99


WMP9 backs it up too. More to the point, when I jump to a specific chapter in MPC or WMP9, it hits the scene change almost perfectly, +/- one frame. When I jump to one of the chapter times exported by Chapter-X-tractor in VirtualDub, it jumps to well before the scene change, with later chapters having a rather large difference. There's definitely something wrong here.

[Guest]

It's probably multiangle that's screwing things up. How did you rip it?

[MasamuneXGP]

I wasn't even aware it *had* multiangle... But I'll tell you exactly what I did. I'll leave out the DVD Shrink part because that obviously has nothing to do with it if it happened both before and after.

1. Put the disk in my tray, ripped VTS_01 with DVD Decrypter all the protection crap. There were 7 of them, 1 through 7. (btw, DVD Decrypter showed 02:09:08 for the length as well)
2. Fired up DGIndex, loaded the vobs, checked "Force Film", saved the .d2v file.
3. Created generic .avs file with two lines: loading of the dgindex dll and mpeg2source line.
4. Loaded said .avs in VirtualDub.

And that's about it. I didn't do anything fancy with multiangle or anything else =\

[Guest]

I asked how you ripped and you didn't tell me (mode, options).

Find out about multiangle and then you'll know how to select only one angle when you rip.

I recommend asking the mod to move this to DVD authoring. It's hardly a newbie issue.

[MasamuneXGP]

I apologize, I didn't realize that's what you were asking. I ripped in IFO mode, selecting what appeared to be the main movie. Strangely, under "VTS_01", there was "PCG 1" and "PCG 2", both of which were 02:09:08 according to DVD Decrypter. Back when I was ripping it the first time, I ripped both, and they appeared to be exactly the same. From then on I have been using PCG 1.

Here's a screenshot of the options I had set for IFO mode:
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2088/dvdsettings8wj.png

EDIT: Google showed me this little guide:
http://www.dvdripguides.com/dvdrip4a.php
I followed the steps, and according to the guide, the DVD is not a multiangle DVD. I did notice that the VOB ID numbers that Mpegutils gave me repeated a lot (it went 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4) but according to the guide that isn't a problem.

Also, I apologize for posting this in the wrong forum. I wasn't really sure what the problem was, but I did know that I was a newbie =p

[Guest]

Well, it's beyond my expertise, I'm afraid.

I suggest you post in Decrypting about this and mention Matrix Revolutions. Someone might have experience with it.

If anyone moans about a crosspost, say I said it was OK. :)

[setarip_old]

@MasamuneXGP

Hi!

Check out this primary Google link:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Matrix+revolutions%22+and+%22multiangle%22

Many of the links it leads to seem to indicate that "Matrix Revolutions" does, in fact, have some type of multiangle...

[MasamuneXGP]

Oh, how I'd love it if it were just confined to the Matrix. I just tried my copies of The Ring, Minority Report, and Die Another Day. All of them are a few seconds longer they should be and all of them produce messed up chapters. This problem apperently happens for every DVD I own.

Listen if it's not to much trouble, would you mind doing checking this with one of your own DVDs? I know it's somewhat presumptious of me that no one would have ever noticed this before, but it would be nice to know for sure that it's something *I'm* doing and not the one of the programs' fault...

EDIT: Really had to dig for this one. I managed to find my copy of ReBoot - Daemon Rising (for the uneducated, it's a computer animated cartoon). No way in hell it has multiangle, or anything else even remotely complicated. Same problem. It's definitely the software. Either a setting or a bug, hopefully the former.

[CWR03]

MasamuneXGP, I've backed up most of the titles you've mentioned using GordianKnot and have had no problems whatsoever with audio synch with any of them. You might try that on one of your known problematic rips. If you still have synch problems, there's a good chance that you have a codec pack installation that's affecting the playback, which of course has nothing to do with the encode or the program(s) used to create them.

[MasamuneXGP]

No, audio sync isn't the problem. The problem is length. Rip a DVD with DGIndex (or GK, it *uses* DGIndex). Then open it in VirtualDub or something and open the actual DVD in a media player. Compare there lengths. The rip will always be a few seconds longer, and not the few seconds of blackscreen. It seems impossible, but somehow the audio is still in sync. The problem isn't audio, it's that these extra seconds screw up the chapter times.

EDIT: Meh, reposting in Decrypting.