New Windows Media Audio 10 Pro

[DeathTheSheep]

Saw this in another thread:
Windows media player 11 beta is out (on softpedia (http://www.softpedia.com//progDownload/Microsoft-Windows-Media-Player-11-Download-39801.html#download_locations)) So I could gues encoder will be out soon too?
Obviously that's a leaked build. Proceed at your own risk.

Well, it just so happens I downloaded Windows Media Player 11.
I thought it was official and ripped a CD with the "Windows Media Audio Pro" codec (which now offers bitrates as low as 32kbps, which was never an option before), and sounded...well...full of SBR and PS. Pretty darn good, if you ask me--I'm not used to the old "pro" encoder enough to tell, but I'm pretty sure 9pro didn't have SBR or PS-like stuff in it :D So, I thought I'd ask.

Question 1: Is the Pro encoder new?
Question 2: Is the bundle LEGAL to use?

Thanks!

[zambelli]

Question 1: Is the Pro encoder new?
Yes, the v9 encoder got updated with some new features, such as low-bitrate encoding. It's a new encoding method that uses the existing bitstream format but supplements it with additional information in order to reconstruct the full frequency response. The result is that new decoders (v11) can decode the full signal, while old decoders can decode only the base signal. It's similar in some ways to the MP3Pro compression technology.
Question 2: Is the bundle LEGAL to use?
That's a leaked build 11.0.5358.4826 from April 19th. I'm pretty sure that wasn't the final beta build, but I'm not at work now so I can't check. Until you see it on the MS download web: assume NO.

[DeathTheSheep]

OK, sounds good.
The v9 encoder got updated with some new features, such as low-bitrate encoding. The bitstream should still be the same as v9, meaning that v9 decoders can play back v10 files.
Assuming the codec itself is finalized, the files play back fine on the PC but play back as a mono, 22khz files on the pocket PC. Just thought I'd point that out before uninstalling the bundle!

Cheers,
DTS

edit: typo

[DeathTheSheep]

Sorry for the double post, but I've got one more problem (I know it's my fault for not checking up on things before downloading), but after I uninstalled the package, Windows Media Encoder is showing wierd new codecs I never installed (or if I did they should have uninstalled):
http://gabe.5000megs.com/images/problem.PNG
I have lost access to the stable codecs, which appear to have replaced by these unstable/illegal/unusable/untested/unfinished ones. Is there anything I need to do to purge these things (without doing a Windows reinstall), or should I just go on ahead with these new unstable codecs?

Thanks for your response.
DTS

[GmorG McRoth]

You can open with winrar wmp11 installer, unpack file wmfdist11.exe and open it with winrar, then try to find and delete all files that are there. but ofcourse that may just make all your wmp codecs go away and installer of wmp10 codecs may say that new ones are still installed even when they will be not phisically there (mayby just moving them whuld be smarter).

[shon3i]

Extra! quality, i think sounds better than any HE-AAC, but i am not sure.

[DeathTheSheep]

GmorG McRoth: :o ...
open with winrar wmp11 installer, unpack file wmfdist11.exe and open it with winrar
That's so freakin' sweet--I can't believe WinRar can open a proprietary exe :D :D That's so freakin' COOL. I suppose I'll try your find-and-erase method, but first: if I just reinstall the old v9 codec pack, would the codecs go away? Or would my system DIE on me?

edit: Windows Media Encoder 9 reintall didn't help: it still reports the new codecs.

shon3i: lol, wow nice XD. OK, then... made a quick test via WME.
Well, there appear to have been 3 different audio codecs installed with the bundle, ranked here from best to worst:

The DeathTheSheep ranking of WMP11's codecs!
-----------------------------------------------
#1. Windows Media Audio 10 pro (sooooo gooooood...Try quality 25% ;))
#2. Windows Media Lossless 9.2 (good, competitive compression rates)
#3. Windows Media Audio 9 with SBR and PS (SBR+PS crippled :(, basically same as any decent HE-AACv2 codec)
#4. Windows Media Audio 9.2 (this one's just barely ok by my standards...)
#1 sounded darn good (used Quality 25%, ~67kbps) after you get past the crashes and realize bitrate VBR mode doesn't work :P

#2 was pretty much good. Good compression rates, works on my Pocket PC (a huge plus for me), and of course, lossless ;)

#3 is only available when you rip with WMP11 (using the Windows Media Pro option at 64kbps or lower) and is not available with Windows Media Encoder, so I'm going by the quality of the stuff I ripped with WMP yesterday... :P The SBR and PS part don't playback on external devices like my Pocket PC, so you're left with terrible sounding 22khz mono songs. Yay. :\

#4 was... well, basically the same Windows Media 9.1. Maybe just a smidgeon better on some stuff, but incredibly low lowpass so I can't really tell :D

Well, there we have it folks: don't install this package or your system gets some unstable, unremovable codecs XD. Best wait 'till the official release :)

[shon3i]

#2 is only available when you rip with WMP11 (using the Windows Media Pro option at 64kbps or lower) and is not available with Windows Media Encoder, so I'm going by the quality of the stuff I ripped with WMP yesterday... :P The SBR and PS part don't playback on external devices like Pocket PC, so you're left with terrible sounding 22khz mono songs. Yay. :\
I think is that WMA 10 because works fine on my car's stereo.

And which version of Windows Media Encoder you use, and how to find this settings where i can choose betwen wma 10 and wma 9 like on your picture.

[DeathTheSheep]

I have the standard version of WME (2003), the standard settings page, ehhhh... Why not wait for the real, new, legal, more powerful and more stable version to come out in 2 days? It's not too long to wait :) The codec causes tons of crashing here, so I'm just going to wait 2 more days for the more complete beta version ;)
Cheers!

[shon3i]

I have the standard version of WME (2003), the standard settings page, ehhhh... I fonded settings, but is this you version same as WME 9

so I'm just going to wait 2 more days for the more complete beta version
Beta of what, WME or WMA 10

I just thinking what microsoft does abuot video codecs, lastest wmv 9 is good but what microsoft now doing, any rumor for wmv 10.

[DeathTheSheep]

Official beta of WMP11. The one you have now might not be complete/official. But if you really want to know...

Open WME. Click "custom session." Click "compression" tab in session properties window. Click the edit button. The edit window will appear and there will be a dropdown list under "Codecs" in the edit window. These codecs will be new.

Don't see anything new with WMV...

[killerhex]

i installed and i still have my other wmv/wma codecs from previous versions but the wma pro v10 sounds good on 64 kbps-up

[shon3i]

i installed and i still have my other wmv/wma codecs from previous versions but the wma pro v10 sounds good on 64 kbps-up
You must select WMA Pro.

Don't see anything new with WMV...I just asking is there any rumour for some new wmv codec in final release.

Official beta of WMP11. The one you have now might not be complete/official. But if you really want to know...I knew, Thanks for instructions and info.

[zambelli]

That's so freakin' sweet--I can't believe WinRar can open a proprietary exe :D :D That's so freakin' COOL. I suppose I'll try your find-and-erase method, but first: if I just reinstall the old v9 codec pack, would the codecs go away? Or would my system DIE on me?
edit: Windows Media Encoder 9 reintall didn't help: it still reports the new codecs.
The new codecs are installed as a part of WMP11. MS codec updates have historically always been delivered with new WMP releases.

WME9 is smart enough not to replace newer codecs with old ones. Otherwise it'd be a giant pain to install WME9 on XP SP2 systems where WMP10 is preinstalled. :)

Did you consider uninstalling WMP11 beta via Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs?

Installing older codecs over new codecs is a sure way to mess up your system very quickly. Either uninstall WMP11 beta, or wait for the official release and reinstall it.

#3 was... well, basically the same Windows Media 9.1. Maybe just a smidgeon better on some stuff, but incredibly low lowpass so I can't really tell :D
What are you talking about? It's LOSSLESS. The only way to improve a lossless codec is to improve its compression efficiency. The quality will always be the same.

[DeathTheSheep]

What are you talking about? It's LOSSLESS. The only way to improve a lossless codec is to improve its compression efficiency. The quality will always be the same.

Oops, I only added "Lossless" to the sentence in my edit and forgot to change the rest to reflect that :rolleyes:. Sorry about that.
#3. Windows Media Audio 9.2 + Lossless 9.2 (just barely ok...)
Yeah, the lossless has always been good (and, of course, lossless ;))...

OK, I'm going to install the new one that comes out tomorrow. My problems will then hopefully be solved. Cheers!

edit: Ok, changed stuff around in my previous post. Now everyone's happy! :)

[siddharthagandhi]

A new one is coming out tomorrow? How do you know?

[DeathTheSheep]

Oooh, maybe I have inside information ;) :D ;)

...or maybe its everywhere in the news, including news.com

[Ivan Dimkovic]

Sebastian Mares wanted to include the latest WMA codec to the next multiformat listening test at 48kbps

But, it seems that WMP11 EULA prohibits this:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=42696&view=findpost&p=393261

He also asked Microsoft some time ago to give 'explicit permission' but he got no response.

[DeathTheSheep]

Yeah, sucks doesn't it...
Well IMO WMA 10pro (not plus) at 48kbps it isn't the hottest thing in the universe anyway...especially CBR-wise.

About that EULA... ...I actually UNINSTALLED WMP11 but the new codecs remain usable in things like dbPowerAmp music converter... I wonder what that might mean... ;)
(j\k... though it's true, I ain't advocatin' anything...:))

[Ivan Dimkovic]

With regards to 48 kbps -
Sorry I was meaning best WMA can offer - whatever is the name :)

But I personally don't expect that Sebastian is willing to dodge MS's legal terms and conditions for using the software, at least judging from his posts on HA.

Too bad that it can't be tested - let's hope MS will reply to him.

[Wilbert]

Sebastian Mares wanted to include the latest WMA codec to the next multiformat listening test at 48kbps

But, it seems that WMP11 EULA prohibits this: (...)
I can't imagine that there are no laws in US that contradict this EULA. We are not allowed to say if it is crap compared to other codecs? What a nonsense. Another reason to ditch it ....

[zambelli]

Sebastian Mares wanted to include the latest WMA codec to the next multiformat listening test at 48kbps

time ago to give 'explicit permission' but he got no response.
Please send me a PM and I'll try to get you or Sebastian in touch with the right people.

[Ivan Dimkovic]

Thanks Zambelli, I just PMed you :)

Hopefully there will be a solution - it will be very nice to test latest audio coding technologies (Vorbis, WMA10Pro+, HE-AAC) and see how the technology progressed since last public low-bitrate test in 2003.

[Avish]

How can I convert my local files to new WMA Pro? Local means files which are stored on my HDD.

[DeathTheSheep]

Use a program like Easy CD-DA Extractor. After WMP11 installation, the "Windows Media Audio 9.1" encoder listed in ezcddax will really be the new v10 pro encoder, which you can use to encode all local files very quickly. I recommend using the "Pro 24bit VBR Quality 25 44khz Stereo" preset for all local files--it "sounds good as hell," imo. :)

[Avish]

Use a program like Easy CD-DA Extractor. After WMP11 installation, the "Windows Media Audio 9.1" encoder listed in ezcddax will really be the new v10 pro encoder, which you can use to encode all local files very quickly. I recommend using the "Pro 24bit VBR Quality 25 44khz Stereo" preset for all local files--it "sounds good as hell," imo. :)Thanks DTS for the quick reply.:)

[Sebastian Mares]

Yay, finally recovered my password.

Anyways, seems that we didn't have much luck obtaining a permission to test the new WMA codec. :(

[shon3i]

Yay, finally recovered my password.

Anyways, seems that we didn't have much luck obtaining a permission to test the new WMA codec. :(
Welcome to forum, thats is bad new's, how much we have to wait for this test.