Nero Digital AAC Encoder updated

[Kurtnoise]

http://www.nero.com/nero7/eng/11793.html

List of the new and updated features is quite impressive, but for HA users I think the most interesting update is completely new AAC encoder in the Nero Burning Rom / Wave Editor and SoundTrax.

This update represents a new Nero 7 milestone in the long list of free monthly updates! It is packed with new features for your favorite applications and even offers Blu-ray Disc data recording support.

Hard to say what has been changed as the whole encoder and the plug-in for Nero are completely new smile.gif

Encoder is built on our new technology, it supports ABR, CBR and quality-based VBR coding modes and it fixes issues that were known with the old encoder - it should also be noticeably faster than the old AAC encoder.

It supports HE-AAC, HE-AAC v2 and LC-AAC. SBR mode has been proven to be leading the HE-AAC encoder race, and hopefully LC-AAC in this new AAC will follow, as the ABR bug is fixed.

Also, as I mentioned - there will be an additional big surprise for audio communities, which will also add the first in the world public 2-pass AAC encoding as well as some very hot things - but about this, I will give more details later this week.

More infos on HA.org (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=43996&st=0&#entry386164).

[Ivan Dimkovic]

As said in my post on HA - 2-pass feature is something that will be coming with the surprise this week ;) It is not currently in the Nero7 package.

But, yes - Nero 7.2 contains the brand-new AAC encoder which was the top performer in the previous 48 kbps HE-AAC listening test.

[siddharthagandhi]

OMG THIS IS SO COOL
I've been waiting for this. I think that this is an update where we will be able to encode Ateme HP. Whatever it is, I'm getting it ASAP.

[guada 2]

Kurtnoise13,

Do you know other technical specifications used?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Wow... a full 2-pass audio encoding option... I've been asking for this feature for years :)

I'm tempted to try Nero products again... But I really don't want to install all their applications and download an 124,06 MB package, just so I can play with their AAC audio codec :(

[Ivan Dimkovic]

Then please wait few more days :)

[Malow]

the new version 7.2.0.3b contains this update?

[Vincent Vega]

the 7.2 version does not include aac.dll in common files/audioplugins. so how the whole [besweet + belight + aac.dll + aacenc32.dll + mfc71.dll + bse_Nero7WA.dll] thing is gonna work from no on?

[dimzon]

the 7.2 version does not include aac.dll in common files/audioplugins. so how the whole [besweet + belight + aac.dll + aacenc32.dll + mfc71.dll + bse_Nero7WA.dll] thing is gonna work from no on?
Use AAC.DLL from OLD version ;)

[Ivan Dimkovic]

aac.dll is the old aac encoder plug-in.

New encoder is using a different plug-in. There will be a solution released during the next week (Tuesday or Wednesday latest) that will cater to the needs of people using tools like Besweet.

I hope this solution will be the end of using Nero AAC plug-in's DLLs which is not so future-safe, as internal specifications change, etc...

[Vincent Vega]

personally i don't mind using aac encoding from within nero burning rom->extras->encode files but there's this terrible bug there that they've somehow been failing to fix so far. my 48 khz 5.1 ac3s get downsampled to 44 khz when encoded to 5.1 he-aac. about stereo content i don't remember right now. but that one prob is more than enough anyways.
while in belight everything works perfectly.

p.s. besides wouldn't it be a good idea for nero to offer some nice ac3 decoder plugin with easy to use settings/help file as a substitute for the weird and seemengly no longer supported mausau external decoder?

[shon3i]

What about 6ch bug, how now work 6ch encoding it is better now.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Then please wait few more days :)Hi Ivan,

Can you canfirm whether the 2-pass mode is in version 7.2.0.3b please?


Cheers

[dimzon]

aac.dll is the old aac encoder plug-in.
AFAIK this is not encoder itself BUT some wrapper (pattern adapter) around aacenc32.dll wich turn undocumented/unknown aacenc32.dll API to well-known plugin API avaluable with Nero SDK

[shon3i]

@SMD, I just downloaded 7.2.0.3b and there is not 2-pass mode only simple encoder.

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/3981/nmp40cy.jpg
I think that new nero encoder will be more professional like new more options and other things, but now Nero seem make one click encoder. Maybe this encoder is temp until 2-pass came out but will see what Ivan told.

Thanks Ivan for new encoder, i tested 6ch mode and works Great, in test use ten second sample @ 96kbs and everything sounds great, Now Coding Technologies have big oppotent for multichannel but i think Nero have same quality like CT in 6ch encoding, there is not more quality, maybe 2-pass mode can change this, and of course VBR/ABR modes.

And when is new AAC.dll came out for third party apps.

It seems old oversize problem not corrected. When i use gain/boost, big oversize is present.

[Kurtnoise]

Well...quality as you said is subjective here.

In addition, 2-pass mode has nothing to do with "quality" but it's dedicated to target bitrates.

[Ivan Dimkovic]

AFAIK this is not encoder itself BUT some wrapper (pattern adapter) around aacenc32.dll wich turn undocumented/unknown aacenc32.dll API to well-known plugin API avaluable with Nero SDK

Problem is still the same - we completely abandoned aac.dll/aacenc32.dll chain (aacenc32.dll is currently still used in Recode - but that will change soon)

Regarding the GUI - indeed it is simple (we will add few more options soon - at least to select coding mode) - for 2-pass and expert options we have the new "surprise" which is supposed to be out anytime soon - it is completed but it takes some time to get final certification/tests and put it online.

Regarding the 5.1 encoding - we even improved it within last few days, and the improvement will surely be onliine with the new Nero's product to be out within days. I am quite sure it will be at least as good as Stereo encoder - if not probably better due to some new quality improvements we did.

[dimzon]

Problem is still the same - we completely abandoned aac.dll/aacenc32.dll chain (aacenc32.dll is currently still used in Recode - but that will change soon)
Does You have any future plans to public ndaudio.dll API to allow us (3-rd party developers) to use Your perfect encoder from ower software? Theoretically best bet will be combination of ndaudio.dll API to allow us to use all new features + aac.dll (pattern adapter) for backward compatibility with existing applications.

btw: We want same (public API) for Your perfect AVC encoder too - many advanced users doesn't like Recode2 look & feel but like Your AVC encoder very match...

Offtopic
Talking about Nero7 package I must say -it's extreme overbloated IMHO
Personally I need ONLY encoders+ CD/DVD Burning (I believe it CAN fit into 10-20 Mb), I doesn't need other stuff (like Recode2, WavEditor, Cover Editor, Nero Showtime, NVE etc) at all!
Maybe it's time to change Your distribution strategy? I believe HUGE amount of users will agree with me (actually at least 90% of known users are talking the same)! Can You forward this part of my message to your Product Manager ? Thanx!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well...quality as you said is subjective here.

In addition, 2-pass mode has nothing to do with "quality" but it's dedicated to target bitrates.Hmmm!

I was of the impression that the advantage of conducting a full first pass would be to more accurately determine where to allocate (increase or decrease) the number of bits for the second (VBR) pass.

The more efficiently the bits are positioned within the stream, the better the finished encode. Whether it be an audio or video stream.

[Ivan Dimkovic]

Does You have any future plans to public ndaudio.dll API to allow us (3-rd party developers) to use Your perfect encoder from ower software? Theoretically best bet will be combination of ndaudio.dll API to allow us to use all new features + aac.dll (pattern adapter) for backward compatibility with existing applications.

Hmm, I will try to explain how this could work:

- NDAudio.dll is part of our Nero Digital Audio API, which is available under commercial terms, so whoever is developing a commercial product can inquiry about Nero Digital Audio Licensing

- Keeping aac.dll/aacenc32.dll for backward compatibility is a bad idea - because new encoder and the plug-in offer some things impossible with the old one, and they would require additional extra efforts for maintenance

- For personal use, people that wish to automate their audio encoding tasks, we plan to release a separate product anytime soon (that I announced for the end of last week) - this product will allow:

a) Professional settings (CBR, VBR, 2-pass CBR, ABR, all sampling rates, etc....)

b) Full automation in the most flexible way

c) I can assure you that it will be more than attractive from the pricing perspective ;)


btw: We want same (public API) for Your perfect AVC encoder too - many advanced users doesn't like Recode2 look & feel but like Your AVC encoder very match...

This also falls into commercial licensing domain I would say.

[dimzon]

NDAudio.dll is part of our Nero Digital Audio API, which is available under commercial terms, so whoever is developing a commercial product can inquiry about Nero Digital Audio Licensing
Hmmm... I'm sorry, but I really doesn't understand why? If I paid for Nero package why I must pay additional money to be able to use obtained encoder via 3rd party software? This scheme (additional API licensing) disallow free/open source 3rd party tools ;( Keep in mind - I'm not talking about illegal or free ndaudio.dll distribution - I just want to be able to use legal encoder from legal obtained and properly installed and registered Nero package. Same for AVC encoder

Keeping aac.dll/aacenc32.dll for backward compatibility is a bad idea - because new encoder and the plug-in offer some things impossible with the old one, and they would require additional extra efforts for maintenance
Hmm... Actually as I said before aac.dll is requed for backward compatibility so we does not need new features in it. So since You have finalized NDAudio.dll API it's easy to write AAC.DLL adapter once - You doesn't need any significant resources for support/maintenance. I have really huge/rich development expirience so I am 100% shure in statements above.

For personal use, people that wish to automate their audio encoding tasks, we plan to release a separate product anytime soon (that I announced for the end of last week) - this product will allow
Please, include command-line version wich will be able to encode WAV files or/and RAW PCM files (headerless WAV) directly from STDIN!

[shon3i]

Now nero looks a good encoder only for cd audio rips. This ppl must be crazy when convert ac3 track to wav 5.1 and then open in very bugy Nero Wave Editor for encoding to aac.

Like dimzon says, providing small cli app with STDIN will be best solution for encoding.

btw. We can only wait ateme HP and see, maybe Recode start to be Best app for backup, but nobody can prove that.

[dimzon]

Now nero looks a good encoder only for cd audio rips.
In this case I prefer iTunes - best LC-AAC encoder and It's free...

[dimzon]

This ppl must be crazy when convert ac3 track to wav 5.1 and then open in very bugy Nero Wave Editor for encoding to aac.
2 Nero Team
There is really huge amount of variations when You trying to transcode audio. I can want to perform some filtering/DSP/Transform. So just provide us ability to use Your encoder without Your GUI (small cli app with STDIN OR public API) and we will write everything what we need for decoding/filtering/DSP/Transform ourselves (Same for AVC)

2 Ivan Dimkovic
I realize such decisions is not in Your competention (You are developer, not a manager) so You can forward our petition to Your Product Manager. Thanx!

[Kurtnoise]

The more efficiently the bits are positioned within the stream, the better the finished encode. Whether it be an audio or video stream.
yeah right...but you can do that entirely in one Pass. :) Nowadays, compressors tend to reach this. All in all, I'm not sure that a 2-Pass mode for Audio field is really useful but this is an other discussion.

[shon3i]

I'm not sure that a 2-Pass mode for Audio field is really useful but this is an other discussionWhy not VBR 2-pass can save bits a lot. For example silent parts of audio. In VBR 32kbs is minimum bitrate, encoder silent parts of audio encode with lower bitrates but i think i if encoder knows (1-pass stats) what is sample/frame encoder can use 0kbs in that range to save space. That was be cool if will be possible of course

[Ivan Dimkovic]

I realize such decisions is not in Your competention (You are developer, not a manager) so You can forward our petition to Your Product Manager. Thanx!

In fact, for audio (MPEG-4 Audio) and mobile products (Nero Mobile) - that would be me :)

So, I am really listening what you guys are proposing and I am kindly asking you to wait just a little more (hopefully today I'll have the surprise put online) - and then we will see if your wishes are fullfilled - I am quite sure they are ;)

By the way, in future - for Nero Digital Audio, you can always send a PM to me with your proposals and I can promise that I will check them out

[SeeMoreDigital]

Why not VBR 2-pass can save bits a lot. For example silent parts of audio. In VBR 32kbs is minimum bitrate, encoder silent parts of audio encode with lower bitrates but i think i if encoder knows (1-pass stats) what is sample/frame encoder can use 0kbs in that range to save space. That was be cool if will be possible of courseIndeed...

What you are suggesting should improve the dynamic range of the encode... Which should be a positive move for lossy encoding.

[Carpo]

In fact, for audio (MPEG-4 Audio) and mobile products (Nero Mobile) - that would be me :)

So, I am really listening what you guys are proposing and I am kindly asking you to wait just a little more (hopefully today I'll have the surprise put online) - and then we will see if your wishes are fullfilled - I am quite sure they are ;)

By the way, in future - for Nero Digital Audio, you can always send a PM to me with your proposals and I can promise that I will check them out


unless ya do a microsoft and delay it ;P

[Marsu42]

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?&showtopic=44275
http://www.nero.com/nerodigital/eng/Nero_Digital_Audio.html

:-)

[kdm]

It's works... but
encoding required P4-class processor and NT-based system.

[Ivan Dimkovic]

It's works... but
encoding required P4-class processor and NT-based system.

It should work on any x86 processor now.

It does require NT based system because it is fully unicode.

[SpAwN_gUy]

Hello,... i think i've heard somewhere here, that there will be NextGen of command-line NeroAAC encoder....

i'm sorry, but... when? ;)

[skromnibog]

New version will be out very soon. I wouldn't call it NextGen, just version with some important bug fixes.

[stax76]

Will there be improved multithreading?

[nurbs]

From what I read over at hydrogenaudio the main difference will be improved quality when encoding 5.1. IIRC they are developing a new aac encoder for Nero 9 and will give us the old one for free.

[SpAwN_gUy]

i've read... something like that... while we were waiting fo Nero8 ;) .... i guess

[skromnibog]

From what I read over at hydrogenaudio the main difference will be improved quality when encoding 5.1. IIRC they are developing a new aac encoder for Nero 9 and will give us the old one for free.

This is not true. Free encoder that is going to be released is the same one that will be delivered in Nero 9.

[skromnibog]

Will there be improved multithreading?

No. Sorry.

[SpAwN_gUy]

Hi guys...
i just found nero's ftp with tools.. and you know what?
2008-09-17 - Version 1.3.3.0

- neroAacEnc:
- Improved multichannel encoding
- Solved compatibility issues with some hardware devices
- Improved CBR bitrate control
- Ignore wave file length of 0 on -ignorelength
- Solved issue with very long files and -2pass
- Removed special SSE compile,
all optimizations have been merged with the normal compile
- Linux version speed optimized
- Encoder exits gracefully and writes valid MP4 file on ctrl+c

- neroAacDec:
- Fixed incorrect channel output for 7.1 encodings

- neroAacTag:
- Linux version available
NeroDigitalAudio (ftp://ftp6.nero.com/tools/NeroDigitalAudio.zip)

[ACrowley]

Hi guys...
i just found nero's ftp with tools.. and you know what?

NeroDigitalAudio (ftp://ftp6.nero.com/tools/NeroDigitalAudio.zip)

blind ?

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=141380

[SpAwN_gUy]

blind ?

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=141380hm... and why do we need thousans of similar topics? ...

so, nevermind.. i'm just too old :)