Vobsubs In MP4

[layer3maniac]

Why is it that no muxing software seems to be able to do this? Nero does it, so it must be possible. It sure would come in handy. Is anyone working on such a thing?

[Kurtnoise]

Is anyone working on such a thing?
Nobody as far I know...

[Kurtnoise]

Since today, there is someone...;)

Ivan Vecera (aka Falco) has posted on gpac website (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1477731&group_id=84101&atid=571740) a patch to have the possibility to mux vobsub file with MP4Box.

Hi all, sorry for delay. Now I have a patch for gpac,
that allows import VobSub subtitles. This is private
extension of Nero Digital format.

Limitations:
- Only VobSub (.idx/.sub) format supported
- VobSub features such as align, scale, alpha... stored
in .idx file are not supported

I've made some tests with his compile on my Windows box :
Mux works fine with only one track.
Playback doesn't work with Nero Showtime (i.e subs are found but don't appear).
Subs streams work with Haali Splitter and Gabest Splitter but appear in green. (Hint: VSFilter must be disable)
We can mux several subs but splitters are not able to switch each others.

Not bad for a first attempt.

btw, thanks to SMD for the tips. ;)

[layer3maniac]

That is AWESOME news! :thanks:

[leowai]

I've been waiting for this for long...

[Kurtnoise]

Some extra tests this morning...It seems that VSFilter doesn't like this kind of streams. So, I disable it and playback works fine with both Haali & Gabest splitters. However, they are rendered in green color...Strange. Does anybody else have made some tests ?

I'm updating YAMB to include this trick.

[layer3maniac]

How cool is that? :D

I wanted to try some tests, but I'm such a clueless n00b that I couldn't even figure out what to do with the "gpac-vobsub.patch" file to implement this. :p

Yamb is a great frontend, BTW!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Just done some quick tests with Kurt's new builds of YAMB and MP4box...

So far I've been unable to get Media Player Classic to display the VOBsubs.... MPC knows they are there because it lists them under subtitles and properties!

No such troubles with VLC player however, the subtitles are displayed fine.

This is a great start :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hey great...

It's possible to de-mux VOBsubs streams and save them within the .MP4 container and re-mux them again... Even re-name them ;)

[layer3maniac]

Slightly different results for me:

Subs do show up in Nero Showtime and MPC but they appear in bloated green.

Subs appear perfectly in VLC, but for some reason the chapters don't work, perhaps mp4 chapters feature isn't implemented in VLC?

Still, very exciting progress!

[chipzoller]

Sorry...what's the cml to mux vobsubs using this build?

[layer3maniac]

Special build of YAMB found: here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=820811&postcount=734)

Need special build of MP4Box found: here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=820860&postcount=736)

Thanks Kurtnoise13 & Falco!!!

[Kurtnoise]

Sorry...what's the cml to mux vobsubs using this build?
The same thing as srt or ttxt...

[SeeMoreDigital]

I'm finding it difficult to get my head around why I'm unable to see the subtitles in MediaPlayer Classic.

If I play this (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/Temp_Test_Files/Recode2_Source.7z) Recode2 source, I can see the VOBsub subtitles perfectly. However, if I load the Recode2 source into YAMB and hit "Mux", I'm unable to see the VOBsub subtitles in the YAMB re-mux!

Effectively, the only difference I can see between the files is this.....

Recode2 source: -
* Movie Info *
Timescale 1000 - Duration 00:00:50.800
Fragmented File no - 6 track(s)
File Brand avc1 - version 0
Created: GMT Sun Jan 29 22:13:10 2006

File has root IOD
Scene PL 0x01 - Graphics PL 0xfe - OD PL 0xfe
Visual PL: No visual capability required (0xff)
Audio PL: Main Audio Profile @ Level 2 (0x02)

YAMB re-mux: -
* Movie Info *
Timescale 600 - Duration 00:00:50.800
Fragmented File no - 4 track(s)
File Brand isom - version 1
Created: GMT Sat Apr 29 16:04:07 2006

File has root IOD
Scene PL 0xff - Graphics PL 0xff - OD PL 0xff
Visual PL: AVC/H264 Profile (0x15)
Audio PL: AAC Profile @ Level 4 (0x2a)

As you can see, some of the information is very different!


Cheers

[Kurtnoise]

Quick answer : Nero Recode and MP4Box don't use the same muxer. So, you don't have the same infos.

[Kurtnoise]

I'm finding it difficult to get my head around why I'm unable to see the subtitles in MediaPlayer Classic.
You must set VMR7/VMR9 Renderless at least...:)

I played with your sample by adding 4 vobsub files and...it works fine in VLC but always in green with dshow splitters. :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

You must set VMR7/VMR9 Renderless at least...:)Indeed... I'm using the same VMR9 Renderless setting for the Recode2 source and YAMB Re-mux

By the way, does anybody what the following MP4Box codes mean?

Scene PL 0x01 - Graphics PL 0xfe - OD PL 0xfe

I played with your sample by adding 4 vobsub files and...it works fine in VLC but always in green with dshow splitters. :( Four.... This is cool ;)

Yesterday I installed Nero 7.2.0.3b on another PC and hope to experiment with it's new "subtitle" import and conversion utility. If it converts .SRT, .SUB and .TXT over to VOBsub style subtitles, I think it would be interesting to know how it does this!


Cheers

[Kurtnoise]

By the way, does anybody what the following MP4Box codes mean?

Scene PL 0x01 - Graphics PL 0xfe - OD PL 0xfe
PL : Profiles and levels. This concerns isomedia pattern I think.

Yesterday I installed Nero 7.2.0.3b on another PC and hope to experiment with it's new "subtitle" import and conversion utility. If it converts .SRT, .SUB and .TXT over to VOBsub style subtitles, I think it would be interesting to know how it does this!
Yep...tested and this is not bad.

[Drachir]

By the way, does anybody what the following MP4Box codes mean?

Scene PL 0x01 - Graphics PL 0xfe - OD PL 0xfe


The Scene Profile Level tell the player which BIFS nodes,commands and ROUTES he have to know to be able to render the SceneDescription.

The Graphic Profile Level tell you which graphics and textual elements can be used in the scene.

The Object Descriptor Profile tell you which OD and SL tools the player have to support.


0xFE = no profile specified (there is no profile in the standard that match the used tools)
0xFF =no capability required

[SeeMoreDigital]

The Scene Profile Level tell the player which BIFS nodes,commands and ROUTES he have to know to be able to render the SceneDescription.

The Graphic Profile Level tell you which graphics and textual elements can be used in the scene.

The Object Descriptor Profile tell you which OD and SL tools the player have to support.


0xFE = no profile specified (there is no profile in the standard that match the used tools)
0xFF =no capability requiredCould any of this affect how the VOBsub text output layers are displayed?

[Drachir]

Could any of this affect how the VOBsub text output layers are displayed?

No, don't think so.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Okay boys and girls....

Over on my other PC (a £299.00 DELL with crummy on-board Intel graphics but 19" LCD monitor) I installed Haali/Matroska Splitter (Dated: 25-02-2006).

Using Media Player Classic with VMR7 Renderless and with the internal MP4 source filter disabled... When I play the YAMB re-mux, I now see perfect looking and coloured subtitles, identical to the Recode2 source :)

I suspect Gabest's MP4 source filter requires a little tweak...


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hmmm!

Just tried playing the "YAMB re-mux" with the newest version of ShowTime 2 Player... and was unable to select the subtitles at all ;)

[chipzoller]

I've yet to see any subtitles of any kind using the special build of mp4box and yamb. I get no error when muxing the stream in, but I see nothing when played back using mplayerclassic or vlc.

You guys doing anything special?

[Kurtnoise]

You guys doing anything special?
depends...what kind of streams did you add with your subtitles ?

@SMD : you remux the vobsub file (embedded in mp4) with other streams or you mux directly each streams (i.e avc/aac/idx) ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

SMD : you remux the vobsub file (embedded in mp4) with other streams or you mux directly each streams (i.e avc/aac/idx) ?With the video, I mux the MPEG-4 AVC or SP/ASP streams either RAW or in .MP4.
With the audio, I mux the AAC streams either as .AAC or in .MP4
And with the VOBsubs, as you say, they are de-muxed with YAMB and stored within .MP4

[chipzoller]

I was just testing the functionality by muxing vobstream with just the video. Doesn't seem to work on my end.

[chipzoller]

Well after doing some tests with the special build of mp4box/yamb, I've found (VSfilter is not installed on vobsub) that the resulting file (only muxed vobsubs in later to a video/audio stream mp4) only plays with subs (they're green) in nero showtime and not MPC, VLC or with haali splitter (even though it does recognize there are subs present).

Any ideas?

[cera]

Well after doing some tests with the special build of mp4box/yamb, I've found (VSfilter is not installed on vobsub) that the resulting file (only muxed vobsubs in later to a video/audio stream mp4) only plays with subs (they're green) in nero showtime and not MPC, VLC or with haali splitter (even though it does recognize there are subs present).

Any ideas?

What vobsub files do you use? Are they originals ripped from DVD or generated? I tried some streams generated from txt2vobsub and no subtitles were displayed, maybe a bug in this program. With original subpictures ripped from DVD I have any problems.
As for green subpictures I see that the problem is in palette stored in .idx file and I also found one bug in Gabest MP4 splitter (for more information please go to: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1477731&group_id=84101&atid=571740)

Falco

[Kurtnoise]

Hey Falco,

Glad to see you here...:)

Problem is : I've also the green sub renderer with Nero Showtime (v 3.0.0.3). Subs come from the DVD.

[chipzoller]

I get green subs also in Nero regardless of the palette in the idx file. I've not tried text->vobsubs...mine are from the DVD.

[SeeMoreDigital]

So far all my subtitle experiments have been with re-using the original Recode2 VOBsubs...

But like I mentioned before, the VOBsubs don't appear in Media Player Classic (using the internal MP4 source filter).

On my other PC which currently only has latest version of Nero 7 installed, Showtime 2 player with not display the subs either. It knows they are there because it lists them under properties but will not lock onto them after being selected :confused:

[chipzoller]

I just did a test on one subtitle stream where the subs did not appear green but retained the original formatting. They play back fine if I set Haali's splitter to autoload VSFilter.

I'll upload if interested...

[SeeMoreDigital]

I just did a test on one subtitle stream where the subs did not appear green but retained the original formatting. They play back fine if I set Haali's splitter to autoload VSFilter. Yep.. it was the same for me too - See post #22 (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=822087&postcount=22) ;)

[chipzoller]

Are the developers planning on fine-tuning vobsubtitle support in MP4, or is this the extent of it?

[cera]

Hey Falco,

Glad to see you here...:)

Problem is : I've also the green sub renderer with Nero Showtime (v 3.0.0.3). Subs come from the DVD.

Hi all,
I found a color conversion bug in my mp4box patch. I sent the updated patch to sourceforge and built a new version of mp4box. You can download it:

http://www.cera.cz/gpac/mp4box-20060504.zip

Regards
Falco

[Kurtnoise]

Indeed...Now, it works like a charm with the last Nero ShowTime and the MP4 Splitter from Gabest. Good job Falco. :)

There is still an issue with Haali Splitter though. (subs are rendered in black for me)

[chipzoller]

Yeah, Haali displays mine as a light blue (original yellow) but internal w/ mpc and nero showtime display correctly. Gabest's splitter seems to work fine.

For some reason VLC not only displays them larger, but a different color and aligned incorrectly on the screen.

[cera]

Indeed...Now, it works like a charm with the last Nero ShowTime and the MP4 Splitter from Gabest. Good job Falco. :)

There is still an issue with Haali Splitter though. (subs are rendered in black for me)

This is problem because Haali Splitter is not opensource and I cannot look for this issue.

What's currently missing is exporting tracks from MP4. But now I'm working on it.

Falco

[chipzoller]

Falco,

Would we eventually be able to demux the subtitle stream (assuming vobsub format) back into a vobsub format that still has the original formatting/layout?

[Kurtnoise]

This is problem because Haali Splitter is not opensource and I cannot look for this issue.

I know, I know ;)...It wasn't to blame you, it was just an observation.

[leowai]

@Falco,
Thanks a lot. It seems to fix a lots with the new build (20060504). My nero ShowTime shows the colour correctly. A previously unplayable clip (mux with previous build) is playable with ShowTime now by re-muxing with the new build!! -> Bug fixed? Good!

And I also noted that the output mp4 file with Vobsub muxed is displaying a "nero" icon rather than a normal mp4 icon. :)

[mellon]

feature request:
parse and use "delay" specified in .idx file. This delay may have different values for each subtitle track.

Anyway, great work. Thank you, Falco.

Btw. What about coding mp4box to mux AC3 as a private track?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Sorry to bust the party guys but I still unable to see VOBsub subtitles in Media Player Classic, even after using Falco's version of MP4Box (in YAMB) to re-mux this (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/Temp_Test_Files/Recode2_Source.7z) Recode2 source.

Can any else confirm :o

[Kurtnoise]

Your sample works fine here...

[mellon]

Works fine here, too. Both - original and remuxed with mp4box. [MPC 6482, latest Haali Splitter]

[SeeMoreDigital]

Your sample works fine here...Yes... that's the Recode2 source but when you run it thru' YAMB (even with Falco's MP4Box build) I'm unable to see the VOBsubs in Media Player Classic, without Haali.


Cheers

[Kurtnoise]

mmh...confirmed.

Use subs from DVDs directly then. ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

mmh...confirmed.

Use subs from DVDs directly then. ;)Joking appart... a direct re-mux should be "the ultimate test" ;)

[Kurtnoise]

Well maybe but it doesn't concern VobSub MP4Box stuff.