GraphEdit - dedicated subforum A MUST!

[Nick Less]

Why isn't there a dedicated subforum for GraphEdit? It's a fantastic tool but it's very difficult to find tutorials for it and we're basically left finding bits and pieces here & there.

[foxyshadis]

Probably because with its mind-numbingly bad interface, people stay away from it unless forced to use it?

Sounds more like you would want a standalone faq or two than an entire forum.

[Nick Less]

I don't mind it's interface, but i'm just so damn GraphEdit-challenged:( I can basically do 2-3 things i find in tutorials or here, but nothing on my own. Yet, i'm pretty sure it's one of those insert any kind of profanity amazing programs, in the line of AVISynth and VDub.

[XmSurfer]

I like the interface, it's pretty good. It's the lack of automation that I find inconvenient.

[Ebobtron]

Sometimes I just cannot hold myself back.

@Nick Less,
It is kind of cool is it not, but I don't think its in wide use as anything other that a tool to help sort out filter graft manager issues when working with direct show ( for those in overland, mo that's a video / media interface using direct x technologies)
AVISynth and VDub are amazing programs. Even graphEdit is a program. The program that deserves the profanity ( @%^&**** " blank blank ) , is the thing we loosely call the direct show filter graph manager, how there is some software that will cause you to fill your mouth.

@foxyshadis
No, no foxy, not you too. If it had a great interface what would you do with it?

@XmSurfer
Ok the hook is in my mouth I'll bite. What would you like to see automated.

[jstelly]

GraphEdit lacks the kind of configurability you'd need to be able to do anything meaningful with it. As Ebobtron says, it's more useful as a tool to help fix filter priority issues and determining the filters being used to render some content than anything else.

[foxyshadis]

Haha, I never said I would. Well, native vfr editing, encoding, and muxing is a pretty nice plus, just because there are no standalone tools for it; in fact that's all I ever use it for. Everything else you can do with directshow can be accessed through other software just fine. (And avisynth has no concept of directshow, so the most versatile vfr encoding engine requires remuxing with standalones anyway.) Otherwise graphedit is nothing more than a quick troubleshooting and proof of concept tool, and it shows. Really, if you want to automate that process, you should be using DirectShow itself, not graphedit.

[Ebobtron]

@foxy
do you fly foxy, vfr (visual flight rules), if so I'll have what you are having. I like to to do the "NTSC and NTSB" thing, myself.

@jstelly
We win the gold star because that is what the damn thing is and was written for. Microsoft sends it out with the direct x software development kit (unless you get one of the new ones without direct show included, where did they put direct show)

And I hope XmSurfer will respond with his ideas. Or did he not notice that you can pick a filter and then render the pin. The user can Render a media file from the file menu or a url for that matter. I would like to know what he means.

[XmSurfer]

@Ebobtron
Well, I don't know what would be the benefit of giving a more detailed explanation of what I meant by automation. Judging from the tone of your posts, I think I would be better served by not engaging in a discussion with you.

[Ebobtron]

@Ebobtron
Well, I don't know what would be the benefit of giving a more detailed explanation of what I meant by automation. Judging from the tone of your posts, I think I would be better served by not engaging in a discussion with you.

Sorry if my tone is too light or too harsh, or whatever you don't like. If you find me asking a question, I would generally like an answer.

@XmSurfer
Ok the hook is in my mouth I'll bite. What would you like to see automated.
As someone who everyday struggles with which methods I might employ to convey my ideas through an interface of buttons, pop-ups and menus, I truly hoped, no I desperately hoped that you had something constructive to add. Everyone has a different take on things. I learn more from the absurd than the well defined.

It is up to you.

@Nick Less
So throw up a few questions to start, I bet you can get some answers.

[Mug Funky]

it lacks automation in that you can't simply click "go" on a random input file and have it output what you want. you have to rebuild the graph for every new file.

this may seem like not so much of a drawback, but consider sony's awful "sonicstage" software. the only way i can get a .wav file out of my hiMD recordings is to load the (encrypted) .omf file into graph edit, render the graph, insert a tee filter before directsound output and send that to a .wav file. this is quite time consuming to do for every file (and it has to play out in realtime, as the OMF output needs a clock for some reason).

perhaps i should learn dshow programming and hack together a fake dshow clock and a program that automates the process?

[Doom9]

Why isn't there a dedicated subforum for GraphEdit?Because there's hardly any post about it and I'm not creating forums in the hope they will be used, but forums for topics that fill up other forums.

[Inventive Software]

@Doom9: :goodpost:

Sub-forums are there to re-organise what's been posted. Before there was an MPEG-4 AVC forum, everything about codecs EXCEPT DivX, XviD, and Real was posted in the "New codecs" forum. That got very crowded, and most of the problems being discussed there were related to AVC content. When the MPEG-4 AVC sub-forum was created there was quite a lot of stuff related to GUIs for x264, therefore a new subforum for MPEG-4 AVC GUIs was created. However, a new subforum for something that doesn't get discussed very often is a waste of forum space. @Doom9: I assume that there is a limit on the number of forums and sub-forums that you can have?

[celtic_druid]

@Mug Funky, doesn't the new version (v3.4) of sonic stage allow you to decode?

[Doom9]

I assume that there is a limit on the number of forums and sub-forums that you can have?I wouldn't have a clue. I'm not using subforums because I don't like them.. sure it's nice to structure things but those subforms are hard to find unless you know exactly where to look. Screen real-estate is a much more limiting factor and along with traffic the main driver to create or remove forums.

[Ebobtron]

@Mug Funky

You said:
“it lacks automation in that you can't simply click "go" on a random input file and have it output what you want. you have to rebuild the graph for every new file.”

Sorry but that is not automation that is functionality, it automatically does not work.
Using this example as a logic step in wanting something done, I should have asked Pinnacle to add automation to their Studio product line. The automation would have then fixed all the bugs that they could not.

Ok, so I open graphedit, click the file menu and select “Render Media File” and it shows me the filters selected by direct shows filter graph manager, all automatically. It was automatic even if it does not work.

You said
“this may seem like not so much of a drawback, but consider sony's awful "sonicstage" software. the only way i can get a .wav file out of my hiMD recordings is to load the (encrypted) .omf file into graph edit, render the graph, insert a tee filter before directsound output and send that to a .wav file. this is quite time consuming to do for every file (and it has to play out in realtime, as the OMF output needs a clock for some reason).”

“Drawback“, hell I would say this really sucks, but what does if have to do with automation in graphedit.

Sony wrote a direct show audio filter that direct show cannot use without external help.
Can I assume that MPC will not play the .omf file? If I am correct that MPC will not play the file, we can assume that is exactly what Sony wants.

You said:
“perhaps i should learn dshow programming and hack together a fake dshow clock and a program that automates the process?”

Why not?

Then maybe you could explain what is happening on my current system.

MediaPlayerClassic will not play a “.wav” file; the format is checked in the options dialog. I get the standard little window informing me that MPC cannot render all the pins.

GraphEdit renders the wav files just fine.

The simple implementation of direct show in FilmCutter (http://members.aol.com/avsfilmcutter)renders the wav incorrectly giving the file a vertical height, the first time. If I try to open the file a second time it works fine, then works thereafter.

My tone is one of frustration; I understand the global scope of the forum, and the different expertise levels. 18 months ago, I could not even spell videoo.

I guess I wish people would say what they would like to see or explain their trouble. Don’t chime in, tell me what "you" think or want.

[Nic]

@Ebobtron: Platform SDK. They hid all the directshow stuff in the new Platform SDK.

-Nic

[Ebobtron]

@Ebobtron: Platform SDK. They hid all the directshow stuff in the new Platform SDK.

-Nic
Hope your talking about the PSDK 2005, because I just installed the PSDK 2003 on FilmCutter's new system. Though I am a year smarter, I can not find it anywhere within the framework of Microsoft’s instructions for using the 2003 Toolkit. But that all appears to be moot now, as it seems 2003 has been replaced by the 2005 version.

Hope the new Express 2005 stuff is lacking the direct show misdirection.

Started the dialup transfer of 460 Meg for the Toolkit, now with IDE. 2003 was under 30 Meg. PSDK 2005 is larger too.

It shall be awhile. I would order the discs but they appear to be unavailable as yet.

Thanks Nic, when I get it I hope I can remember to look.:)

[Booji Boy]

The most up-to-date version is "Windows® Server 2003 R2 Platform SDK - March 2006" and applications developed with it also run on older Windows versions. So it's safe to download the latest PSDK for say XPSP2 even if it says "Server 2003 R2 ..." if you pland to actually use it for programming.

But whether it contains a newer version of GraphEdit than the one you can get from Doom9.org Software Archive... I dunno.

Anyway here are the links to the network and the two complete downloads (March 2006) for anyone who's interested:

Windows® Server 2003 R2 Platform SDK Web Install (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/info.aspx?na=40&p=2&SrcDisplayLang=en&SrcCategoryId=&SrcFamilyId=A55B6B43-E24F-4EA3-A93E-40C0EC4F68E5&u=http%3a%2f%2fwww.microsoft.com%2fdownloads%2fdetails.aspx%3fFamilyId%3d0BAF2B35-C656-4969-ACE8-E4C0C0716ADB%26displaylang%3den)
Windows® Server 2003 R2 Platform SDK Full Download (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=484269E2-3B89-47E3-8EB7-1F2BE6D7123A&displaylang=en)
Windows® Server 2003 R2 Platform SDK ISO Download (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=E15438AC-60BE-41BD-AA14-7F1E0F19CA0D&displaylang=en)

P.S.: on the topic - A sticky for GraphEdit with some general info in one of the sub-foums would be a compromise, wouldn't it?

[foxyshadis]

The Graphedit is 9.04.78 build 060303. I seriously doubt it's different in any way from the 2004 versions.

VSE2005 doesn't include any SDK, you have to download your own. VS2005 includes some old PSDK from 2004 or early 2005, so as soon as you install you have to update anyway. gj with that one, guys.

If you use directshow in the SDK, it turns out there's one more thing you need: The .dsw project to compile the libs (http://tmhare.mvps.org/downloads.htm) (although you might still need to rename them), since they were removed from the SDK for no discernable reason. Unless you want to create your own project for them.

[Ebobtron]

Well shut my mouth and call me stupid.

There is a direct show SDK in the "Microsoft Platform SDK February 2003".

If you have the nerve to describe what is in there as an SDK because it is not. This is the RC1 release of an update for Microsoft's DirectX 8.1 Sofware Development Kit (SDK). It contains changes to DirectShow software required to create applications using unique new features in Windows XP Service Pack 1 (SP1). The update is packaged as a separate delta SDK so as not to affect customers using the Final Release (December 2001) of the DirectX 8.1 SDK when not targeting SP1-specific features.

I had intended to install express 2005 on my new system. I hope that Microsoft's coordenation on the release of this new freebie is less confuseing.

I will instead install the
Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003
Microsoft Platform SDK February 2003
The Direct X 9 direct show headers and libs some parts dated 2002.

I will worry about the updates later.

[tekNerd]

I know this has nothing to do with the discussion, but since is related to graphedit I post my question here.

I installed GB-PVR and I have Pinnacle MediaCenter 300i. When I scan for channels it says that my signal and strength are good, but doesn't save any channels.

When I start "map digital channels to EPG channels" GB-PVR is making a bda.grf (http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/6421/screenshot160520061228258tm.png).
Can u, please, tell me if this is correct?
Thanks for the help!

Peace out!

[Ebobtron]

Although I may have some knowledge of how the filtermanager works. I have no knowledge of those filters.

Have you seen the following:
http://forums.gbpvr.com/
http://www.bladerhq.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php

Good luck,

[tekNerd]

I already asked in gbpvr forums, but no answer.
I will ask more.
Anywho, Is normal for the "MPEG-2 Sections and Tables" filter to be so...lonely?

[Ebobtron]

I sadly meant what I said about knowing nothing about the filters your graph file is showing in use, except for vmr9.

I already asked in gbpvr forums, but no answer.
I will ask more.
Anywho, Is normal for the "MPEG-2 Sections and Tables" filter to be so...lonely?

I can not say that it is, or is not. I can say that the information gathered from GraphEdit is often useless, that is normal.

Remember that graph edit is a debugging tool for the guys who write the filters and the applications that use direct show filters. The filters and applications can be very customized and a filter can be made to work with only a select kind or type of filter.

I think, or that is what it all looks like to me.

[trolltuning]

Probably because with its mind-numbingly bad interface, people stay away from it unless forced to use it?

Sounds more like you would want a standalone faq or two than an entire forum.
What I would like to see is some one build something like an autoit script that would go through the various filters on any system, try them in a logical order and find the right combination of pins. That way a user could feed the script a video, go do something else for an hour and a half and return to find either a working filter chain or a message that there was no such combination available and the video can't be rendered. Unfortunately something like that is beyond me.

[Ebobtron]

@Ebobtron: Platform SDK. They hid all the directshow stuff in the new Platform SDK.

-Nic
Not that I ever doubted Nic, but when he said hidden he was not kidding. Wow, if you work over the PSDK documentation I guess you will find it.

Thanks Nic,

[mike_lee]

GraphEdit is good at allowing you to see what GraphEdit could have been, but it's MS property and so you can't improve it or add anything useful to it. But as it stands now the prog doesn't do crap, you are just seeing the possibilities.

[Ebobtron]

GraphEdit is good at allowing you to see what GraphEdit could have been, but it's MS property and so you can't improve it or add anything useful to it. But as it stands now the prog doesn't do shit, you are just seeing the possibilities.
Aside from being what it is, which is a debugging tool for Direct Show software developers, it has found a place as a system debugging tool (you know, when the last program you installed causes your video player to begin to jump and jerk), and more. Are you maybe confused, GraphEdit is not a direct show sample?

If you think GraphEdit could do more?
Shouldn't MediaPlayerClassic do more too. Do you want more from DirectShow? Well that would make sense, but I believe that direct show's troubles stem from all the things it can do.

What are you looking for? And what is M$ land? MicroSoft?
:) :thanks:

[Guest]

But as it stands now the prog doesn't do ****, you are just seeing the possibilities. Please do not use profanity in your posts, per forum rule 4. Thank you.

http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm

[mike_lee]

Please do not use profanity in your posts, per forum rule 4. Thank you.

I apologize boss, it won't happen again.