Need guru advice on problem clip!

[emiisdev]

Hi,

I'm trying to encode a Jpop music DVD that I just bought. I've having a terrible time with one of the videos and I could use some advice on what's going on (frame-wise).

I'm using Gordian Knot to encode the clips to high quality xvid avis. The target dimensions are 640x352 with 0.0 aspect ratio error. Normally, Gordian Knot has been a joy to use. This clip in particular is damn frustrating to encode. I've haven't been able to find a good setting for it!

The video (according to DGIndex) is 29.970 NTSC Interlaced.
I crop/resize and then hit the 'Save & Encode' button. I've tried the following settings under 'Field Operations':

- none
- Kernal Deinterlace
- Field Deinterlace
- Field Deinterlace (No Blend)
- Smart Bob (fast)
- TomsMoComp
- Inverse Telecine

I've read (somewhere in these forums) posts that favor Kernal Deinterlace so that was my first choice. There was noticable shimmering effects so that didn't work so well.

Field Deinterlace and Field Deinterlace/No Blend also showed signs of shimmering and also a pause in the video every few frames which wasn't good.

Those three are usually what I use if it's interlaced material. *Usually* they work ok, but on this video the results aren't quite up to par. So I tried each of the others. TomsMoComp *seemed* to work the best. (I don't even know what TomsMoComp is.. :( ) There are still some slight shimmering, but even more annoying is this redundant frame that appears every few seconds..

In the off chance DGIndex lied to me, I also tried to IVTC it. That didn't work as well. I see sporatic choppy frames. I've also tried to Force Film as well with each one of the Field Operations above. Nothing seems to work so it seems my only option is to de-interlace. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.

I've tried encoding this clip in several other programs too. Dr.Divx, Nero Recode all get it wrong with shimmering and distorted blending. If I play back the vob directly in MPC it looks pretty good. There's some slight blending but little shimmering. I wish there was a way to tell what settings it uses! If I play the vob back in a commercial player like PowerDVD it looks AWESOME. I can hardly see any blending, and places that shimmer normally DO NOT. Don't know what they are doing internally, but it looks the best.

I'm kind of at a loss now. Would really like to get the video encoded (it's a cute PV btw featuring Namie Amuro). If anyone feels up to the challenge can you take a look at the sample I've chopped from the vob below? I would really love to hear what setting you recommend in Gordian Knot or if I should encode it another way. Can you also verify that this can't be IVTC'd? (some of her other music videos could - since this is a relatively recent one I really thought it would be able to..)

Here's a small 5Mb vob sample to look at:
http://s57.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0NS0KF1QVBGPW1PYS3BZL889S3

Thank you so much for reading this long post!!

Emi ^_^

[jellysandwich]

A simple ivtc worked for me.

http://s92800548.onlinehome.us/js/pompom.avi

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynth25\decomb522.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynth25\it.dll")

# SOURCE
mpeg2source("D:\FLCL\1\a.d2v")

IT()

It was too short a clip to really tell though... If you want to try the IT() out for the rest of the video, get it here:

http://s92800548.onlinehome.us/js/IT.dll

js

[setarip_old]

@emiisdev

Hi!

Considering the difficulty you appear to be having, as an experiment, you might want to try using MPEG Mediator (or MPEG Mediator Special Edition) to do the conversion...

[emiisdev]

WOW!

Your sample came out much better then any of mine and now I have a slew of questions for you if you don't mind me asking!!

I tried the it.dll you provided but haven't been able to get exactly the same results.

Do I still need to keep this link in the AviSynth file or does the IT() call take care of it?

# IVTC
Telecide(order=1,guide=1).Decimate()

When I viewed your sample in MPC it reported the framerate to be 19.18fps. Is that correct? I thought the goal of IVT was to revert back to it's original 23fps? This may explain some missing frames I'm seeing. Maybe this can't be IVTC'd?

Lastly, in the tests I've tried with the new it.dll, there's a brief jerk between frames when panning and zooming in certain scenes. You really can't notice it in the vob i posted (sorry, i was trying to keep the file size low)

I cut a new sample and have uploaded it. It's from the beginning of the video. The missing frames can be seen when zooming into the tv: (31MB)

http://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2WMI5LNW62P540RAEIDVX0JW39

One last question - my decomb.dl might be older. It doesn't have the '522' in the file name. I'm not sure what version it is - there aren't any properties when viewing through windows explorer. (It's from the latest version of Gordian Knot on this site) What exactly does decomb.dll do? Does it have to do with de-interlacing?

Thanks so much!! I can't wait to get this working!

Emi ^_^

[jellysandwich]

My bad. I left a decimate() call in there which took out some of the frames, but you don't have to worry about it.

I redid the test with the newer, bigger vob file and got this:

http://s92800548.onlinehome.us/js/aaI-it.avi


# PLUGINS
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynth25\decomb522.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynth25\it.dll")

# SOURCE
mpeg2source("D:\FLCL\1\a\a.d2v")
(I didn't use telecide at all, and it's 24 fps now)

It looks good to me, but unfortunately, I don't have good eyes. You'll have to decide whether it's good enough or not.

I don't know what version comes with the GKnot pack, but I added the "522" onto the filename to distinguish it for that reason. If you want, you can read about/get the 5.2.2 version here:

http://neuron2.net/decomb/decombnew.html

js