Does anybody still need 3GPP AAC+ Reference Encoder

[dimzon]

Hi!
3GPP AAC+ Reference Encoder provide quality near to early WinAmp CT AAC+ encoder but it is slow. Does anybody need it at all (there are free WinAmp CT AAC+ encoder avaluable)

[shon3i]

For cellphone becouse using mp4 container. Don't worry i tried to use mp4box but my cellphone reject nero/ct mp4 files

[dimzon]

For cellphone becouse using mp4 container. Don't worry i tried to use mp4box but my cellphone reject nero/ct mp4 files
Reference encoder produce 3gpp format (not pure MP4)
try to play with MP4BOX to obtain same format
tip:
use mp4box -info filename to obtain detailed information

[shon3i]

OK. First I using some 3gp referemnce in BeLight is that same or not in BeLight i get mp4 output and in winamp info box says thah correct information about this mp4 like HE-AAC not LC-AAC like Nero or CT. Second what point of this question at all. Third why you should add CT encoding in megui.

[dimzon]

OK. First I using some 3gp referemnce in BeLight is that same or not in BeLight i get mp4 output
actually this is 3gpp file but with mp4 extension.

and in winamp info box says thah correct information about this mp4 like HE-AAC not LC-AAC like Nero or CT.
This is known WinAmp issule. Try alternative input plugins or use Foobar 0.9 RC

Third why you should add CT encoding in megui.
This is planned feature, it will be added right after Doom9 complete MeGUI refactoring.

[shon3i]

This is planned feature, it will be added right after Doom9 complete MeGUI refactoring.
Ok thanks for this information.

I ask you what intention with 3gp encoder

[dimzon]

I ask you what intention with 3gp encoder
Some times ago I perform some 3GPP Reference Encoder modifications to allow read data from stdin etc... (this version is used in BeSweet/BeLight)
Unfortunally I lost this source code (my HDD was broken :devil: :devil: :devil: )
So I trying to understand - if anybody still really need this encoder I can reproduce my work from scratch in order to add 3GPP Reference Encoder into BeHappy/MeGUI

[shon3i]

That was be nice but there is not necessary to doing this. Becouse i always encode to 6ch with CT when encoding movie and litle Nero 6/7 beacouse have broken 6ch encodings. I only use that 3gp for cellphone but sometimes bagging me and i still use standard mp3. It will be cool if you make some improwments with 6ch audio.

[dimzon]

and litle Nero 6/7 beacouse have broken 6ch encodings
AFAIK MeGUI (when using AviSynth audio) contains special workaround for it (wrong channel order). Can you check it and report a bug is something is wrong?

Talking about 6ch in 3GPP AAC+ Reference Encoder I must say - I spent a really many time to achive it (and I will very close to it). I does'nt think I can find to much time to repeat it again - I think it's better to spent this time to BeHappy/MeGUI improvements instead...

[dimzon]

By the way:
there are new version (Dec 2005)
2005-12 30 SP-050786 0027 Correction to C-code: encoder bitrate switching simulation toolset 6.4.0 6.5.0
2005-12 30 SP-050786 0028 Correction to C-code: encoder tuning table entry for 44.1 kHz was wrong 6.4.0 6.5.0
2005-12 30 SP-050786 0029 Correction to C-code: fix to make decoder more robust against corrupt input data 6.4.0 6.5.0
2005-12 30 SP-050786 0030 Correction to C-code: removal of unused coefficients in resampler 6.4.0 6.5.0


Binary is avaluable here: http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=7107

and it use PS only for bitrate below 36kbps
if ( (inputInfo.nChannels == 2) && (!bEncodeMono) && (bitrate >= 16000) && (bitrate < 36000) ) {
useParametricStereo = 1;
}

[shon3i]

AFAIK MeGUI (when using AviSynth audio) contains special workaround for it (wrong channel order). Can you check it and report a bug is something is wrong?
Channel order is ok both MeGUI/BeHappy and BeLight but quality in Nero 6/7 i terible, And CT is perfect. Listen to yourself http://rapidshare.de/files/14365315/aac.rar.html.This archive contains original 6ch ac3 and three mp4 aac maded by Nero6/7 and CT with lastest BeHappy.

I think it's better to spent this time to BeHappy/MeGUI improvements instead...
OK

[dimzon]

Channel order is ok both MeGUI/BeHappy and BeLight but quality in Nero 6/7 i terible, And CT is perfect. Listen to yourself
Unfortunally I have a really bad ears and don't have 5.1 speakers

does you try latest beta http://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/aac_48/nd_audio_02_feb_2006.7z

[shon3i]

Aslo i dont have 5.1 speakers but my friend have. I tried last beta and this same i aslo try with ps/nops dll. In nero 7 when "he" started to speak i hear artifacts like a huge compression equals when compress something in mp3 at <56kbs. With nero 6 looks like a center chanel dominixed into L,R chanels. On 5.1 systems nero 7 in same, But nero 6 has no surround effect. CT is best and no problems with this.

[dimzon]

CT is best and no problems with this.
WOW! Really interesting (i was never think about CT 5.1 seriously)
thanx a lot!

[shon3i]

thanx a lot!No Problem.

[IgorC]

Wait. Let's wait for results of the public test of HE-AAC (12 of the march). It's not clear which AAC codec provides more optimal quality. http://www.mp3-tech.org/content/?48kbps%20AAC%20public%20test

[shon3i]

Yes IgorC that is true but this tests is for stereo files. Can some produce test for 6ch @ 96kbs-128kbs. Enybody will see that nero6/7 can't be a good choice.

[Oline 61]

Can you use the Winamp encoder without installing winamp? I really want to use this encoder, but I will NOT install Winamp. Can anyone provide me with the nessecary stuff?

[dimzon]

Can you use the Winamp encoder without installing winamp? I really want to use this encoder, but I will NOT install Winamp. Can anyone provide me with the nessecary stuff?
install winamp
get a copy of enc_aacplus.dll
uninstall winamp
volia!

[Oline 61]

I guess I'll try it. I can always manually clean out whatever it does to my precious registry :).

BTW, I always wondered what the difference was. Does 3GPP not have PS? I know CT has it. And 3GPP is stereo only.

[shon3i]

@Oline 61 here is enc_aacplus.dll http://www.mytempdir.com/491994

[SeeMoreDigital]

@Oline 61 here is enc_aacplus.dll http://www.mytempdir.com/491994
Is it possible to use the above encoder in Foobar2000?


Cheers

[shon3i]

I think is no. Only nero 6 encoder

[Rockaria]

Is it possible to use the above encoder in Foobar2000?The foobar2k versions supports any cli encoders which accept the pipe input. Ask dimzon who has a working cli encoder(exe) using the above mentioned CT(winamp) dll.

[dimzon]

Is it possible to use the above encoder in Foobar2000?


Cheers
get enc_aacplus_20060226 from here: http://www.gotdotnet.com/workspaces/workspace.aspx?id=1bb59ddf-901b-43a5-bd54-b0999e8e223e

extract enc_aacplus.exe and place enc_aacplus.dll near
place mp4box.exe near too

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4743/1115sd.png

[Oline 61]

Cool, works great. I just noticed also that .aac files encoded with CT AACPlusv2 show up as AAC and not SBR AAC in FFDShow. That is odd because 3GPP encodec .mp4 files do show as SBR AAC. It does sound like the SBR is being correctly implemented though.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I'm unable to make dimzon's GUI appear at all.... Maybe I've not downloaded the correct files :o

[shon3i]

I'm unable to make dimzon's GUI appear at all.... Maybe I've not downloaded the correct files :o
Maybe you forgot to put enc_aacplus.dll form you winamp 5.2 directory. Or you can download it from earlier posts.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Maybe you forgot to put enc_aacplus.dll form you winamp 5.2 directory. Or you can download it from earlier posts.I have the following files in the same folder: -

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8786/test0zm.png

Have I missed something/downloaded the wrong things from on dimzon's site?

Just to confirm... does this GUI work withut WinAMP?


Cheers

[shon3i]

Yes everything is fine.

Just to confirm... does this GUI work withut WinAMP?
Yes.

Now you must configure foobar2k. Like how dimzon says in preview post.

[dimzon]

I'm unable to make dimzon's GUI appear at all....
This is not dimzon's GUI, this is foobar2000 converter gui ;)

talking about foobar2000 v0.9 RC (2006-02-21) you must go to menu File->Preferences.
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3736/p10va.png


Then select Tools->Converter and press Add New button ;)
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/7808/p21ua.png

[Oline 61]

Should I be concerned that FFDShow's info window reports AAC and not SBR AAC? I have tested several times with different sources and formats and FFDShow appears to correctly decode the SBR, but it doesn't report it as SBR. It reports SBR correctly for Nero HE-AAC and for 3GPP AAC.

[dimzon]

Should I be concerned that FFDShow's info window reports AAC and not SBR AAC? I have tested several times with different sources and formats and FFDShow appears to correctly decode the SBR, but it doesn't report it as SBR. It reports SBR correctly for Nero HE-AAC and for 3GPP AAC.
Have same problem with ffdShow (doesn't signal SBR but decode properly)
That's why I using fb2k 0.9 now to obtain information from AAC/MP4 - it provide very accurate information...

[Oline 61]

Now CoreAAC is another matter. It doesn't say AAC, and there is an obvious lack of high frequency sound that can be heard when decoding with FFDShow. I don't think it decodes it properly. I haven't gotten it to decode 3GPP or Nero encoded SBR AAC to decode properly with it either though.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks Dimzon... I was using Foobar 0.8.3 :scared:

I have just downloaded and installed Foobar2000 0.9 RC(1) Dated 2006-02-24 and I'll follow your procedure ;)


No doubt I'll be hassling you again... very soon!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Oh bummer....

I don't seem to be able to input AC3 streams into this new version of Foobar!

My brains gone.... and I've taken the purpose of this topic, way off-topic.... I'm going to bed :confused:

[shon3i]

use Foobar 0.8.3 is not hard to find differents to change this options.

[Rockaria]

Now CoreAAC is another matter. It doesn't say AAC, and there is an obvious lack of high frequency sound that can be heard when decoding with FFDShow. I don't think it decodes it properly. I haven't gotten it to decode 3GPP or Nero encoded SBR AAC to decode properly with it either though.
The FFDShow has two decoders for the AAC : libfaad2 & realaac. The former displays SBR and decodes PS as stereo not mono, unlike the latter.

[Oline 61]

That post was about how FFDShow does it correctly and CoreAAC doesn't. I use libfaad2, and haven't ever tried realaac. I'm not quite sure what you are saying?

[Rockaria]

That post was about how FFDShow does it correctly and CoreAAC doesn't. I use libfaad2, and haven't ever tried realaac. I'm not quite sure what you are saying?
Oline 61, ..., you already forgot what you said?:confused: :confused: :confused:
Should I be concerned that FFDShow's info window reports AAC and not SBR AAC? I have tested several times with different sources and formats and FFDShow appears to correctly decode the SBR, but it doesn't report it as SBR. It reports SBR correctly for Nero HE-AAC and for 3GPP AAC.
The libfaad2 also displays SBR+PS correctly. I have the latest version of FFDShow, if it matters.

[Oline 61]

If you read Dimzon's post, this was already cleared up and the topic you quote in your most recent post is over.
Have same problem with ffdShow (doesn't signal SBR but decode properly)
I asked if it was a problem, Dimzon said it was not. In my next post I clearly state that FFDShow is decoding properly. At that point, discussion about FFDShow decoding is over, and I have moved on to the fact that CoreAAC does NOT decode the SBR properly. I will reword that post to clarify, because it is littered with typos and confused subjects :).

Now CoreAAC is another matter. It doesn't say SBR AAC, and it doesn't properly decode the stream, because I can hear obvious differences between the CoreAAC decoding and the FFDShow decoding. I haven't gotten CoreAAC to decode 3GPP or Nero encoded SBR AAC properly either, so I believe that CoreAAC doesn't recognize SBR properly.
Do you understand now?

[Rockaria]

If you read Dimzon's post, this was already cleared up and the topic you quote in your most recent post is over.
Have same problem with ffdShow (doesn't signal SBR but decode properly)

Great to know that he cleared your doubt! The libfaad2 even displays SBR+PS correctly.
Do you understand now?
Unfortunately I don't understand you...(but do I have to?)

[Rockaria]

Are you also informed that the 2ch pcm <= 48k encoding is forced to PS mode with his encoder? (not handling the --chmode option explicitly)

[Oline 61]

The libfaad2 even displays SBR+PS correctly.
I think this is where our problem is. Using FFDShow with libfaad2, the info window does not display SBR or PS, yet only AAC. It, however, does decode AAC and PS properly. I think you are mixing up the word display and the word decode.

libfaad2:
-doesn't display SBR or PS
-does decode SBR and PS

coreaac:
-doesn't display SBR or PS
-doesn't decode SBR pr PS

What happened was:

1. I got confused because FFDShow with libfaad2 decoded but did not display SBR or PS and wanted to make sure that everything was ok.
2. Dimzon tells me everything is ok.
3. I post about the fact that CoreAAC doesn't decode SBR or PS properly and FFDShow does.

[Oline 61]

Are you also informed that the 2ch pcm <= 48k encoding is forced to PS mode with his encoder? (not handling the --chmode option explicitly)
Yes, but I fail to see how this has relevance to the current subject. The file I am testing is SBR PS 48khz 2ch @ 32 kbit/s anyway.

[Rockaria]

Using FFDShow with libfaad2, the info window does not display SBR or PS
You may need to install the latest version of the FFDShow.
The 'info & debug' of ffdshow tab shows SBR & PS clearly to me.
Yes, but I fail to see how this has relevance to the current subject..
The foobar2k v0.83 will not show the PS correctly. if it matters to you.
Also I am not sure if the limitation(48k max for PS) is by the CT library. Do you have any information about that?

My belief is that it should be the end-user who is to control the use of the options, not the intelligent hidden codes.
If you don't agree, just ignore it.

[edit] correction : foobar2k v0.83 std input reads(*.aac only) & decodes(2ch only) the aac PS correctly.

[Oline 61]

Right now I have the latest official build: 2005-11-29
The latest build I can find is 2005-12-21 from x264.nl
I will give that a shot and see what happens.

I agree that the end user should control in most cases. PS may be beneficial, but I can see why someone would want to disable PS (foobar, like you said). Fortunatly I don't need this to play in foobar, but thanks for informing me of this problem.

[Rockaria]

FFDShow 2006-02-26 release (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/FFDShow.htm).
OK, I confirm the foobar2k 0.83 also shows(*.aac only) the PS stream info correctly and decodes(2ch only) accordingly.
[edit] clarification about foobar2k v0.83

[Oline 61]

Thanks, thats a great link. One question though. They have appear to have different builds for regular, SSE, and SSE2 with the SSE2 being older. I was under the impression that FFDShow auto-detected and implemented SIMD instructions. Should I grab the older SSE2 build or the newer plain build? (Athlon 64 3200+ Venice)

[Rockaria]

I still have XP-m 2600+, so no useful information for you.
I guess it supports at least SSE2 instruction set.

BTW, foobar2k v0.83 was(& is) not decoding 6ch aac correctly, which is why I am not using it for a media player..