sound and video are not synchronous [Archive] - Page 2

StanHere

9th April 2006, 00:18

Like some here before me, am suffering with significant A/V sync problems using AGK v2.7 to convert in-sync DVD video input to both Xvid & DivX output, with quality settings in the 80% + range.

[The same DVD input & processed with alternative shareware
produces in-sync results, but in smaller frame size & quality versus AGK & it's wonderful 'batch mode' feature.]

I don't mind running Virtual Dub Mod to adjust the audio +/- as a post AGK step, but don't want to "spend-my-life" hunting for just-the-right 'time' correction by trial & error.

What 'diagnostic' freeware or shareware program, tool or suite exists to easily load & quickly report how many + or - MS's the AGK *.AVI is out-of-sync? Bonus would be to also report 'constant' vs 'growing' sync timing.

Thanks for Help!

Running XPPro, Intel P4 3.4, 4 Gigs Ram & 4 Gigs Cache

kis2005

10th April 2006, 00:00

I was able to fix all of my synch problems. The issue was that I unknowingly got bad rips that didn't effect the DVDs playing but caused the audio to be out of synch when processed with Auto GK. I've been able to use PGCedit's PSL2Plug-in to rip with DVD Decrypter and clean up the files with FixVTS (I never had to use VOB blanker with the plug-in, but it is an option.) I found that I was able to use it on ARcoOS or Rip Guard protection even though it is inteded for ARcoOS. You can find the Guide here:http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=56078 and the Plug-in here:http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=58318The only other thing that I changed in backing up my DVDs is that I have chosen to have DVD Decrypter to create and ISO and burn it to disc after DVD Shrink is finished. Now this last step I don't think was the main issue, but reading up on it (and I could be wrong) the added "Crap" that these protection schemes add, maybe also effecting the way Nero (which I usually use) burns the discs. This may cause a problem at the next step when I Rip the movies in IFO mode for Auto GK...this is only my opinion. So what ever the issue(s) and causes were, I have clean rips and no synch errors with Auto GK. I hope this helps.

Tae

10th April 2006, 00:55

It may help me...I guess I will go back to reripping the Disk.

What I don't understand is why Nero Recode can handle the sync problem but neither GK or Auto GK can. I want Divx AVI's because they are more widely recognized correctly than Nero Digital.

kis2005

10th April 2006, 18:31

I want Divx AVI's because they are more widely recognized correctly than Nero Digital.

You are correct about that. I started with XviD and both seem to be used more than Nero Digital.

StanHere

10th April 2006, 22:10

Thanks kis2005 but I need to correct the out-of-sync audio at the "post AGK" finished AVI stage. ARcoOS protection is not the issue with my souce DVD vob material.

'Direct Stream processing' with VirtualDubMod apears to be the most efficient way of modifying audio timing but is a lengthy 'trial & error' method if one does not know how much + /- the timing is actually off.

Consequently...........

What 'diagnostic' freeware or shareware program, tool or suite exists to easily load & quickly report how many + or - Milliseconds the AGK *.AVI is out-of-sync?

Bonus would be to also report 'constant' vs 'growing' sync timing.

I have tried "Re-derive keyframe flags [indexes]' with VitualDub v1.62 but the processing stage crashes 1/2 way through; reporting "Crash reason: Integer Divide-by-Zero +Crash context:
An integer division by zero occurred in module 'xvidcore'....

Thanks for Help!

Running XPPro, Intel P4 3.4, 4 Gigs Ram & 4 Gigs Cache

darkpepe

10th April 2006, 22:34

What I don't understand is why Nero Recode can handle the sync problem but neither GK or Auto GK can.

Would be great if anyone could look at this.

The way I see it it's a bug, and telling us over and over again that we're ripping the DVDs the way we shouldn't, is not going to solve it.

Thx

Tae

11th April 2006, 00:33

Would be great if anyone could look at this.

The way I see it it's a bug, and telling us over and over again that we're ripping the DVDs the way we shouldn't, is not going to solve it.

Thx

It could just be something the programmers that work on Nero discovered with new copy protection and solved it while the guys that do GK just don't know about it. So not really a bug, just something in newer DVD's to trip up ripping software. Kinda expected since Nero is not freeware while GK is.

kis2005

11th April 2006, 14:36

Thanks kis2005 but I need to correct the out-of-sync audio at the "post AGK" finished AVI stage. ARcoOS protection is not the issue with my souce DVD vob material.

'Direct Stream processing' with VirtualDubMod apears to be the most efficient way of modifying audio timing but is a lengthy 'trial & error' method if one does not know how much + /- the timing is actually off.

StanHere - I'm not saying that your synch issue is do only to ARcoOS but it could be due to Rip Guard or some other varient. I have had a lot of new releases that played fine in my players, but when processed through Auto GK, came up with audio our of synch. After I re-ripped them and processed them with PGCedit's PSL2 Plug-in, that uses FixVTS as the primary tool to clean the ripped files, whether or not a PSL2 file was created (only if ARcoOS protected, not if it's Rip Guard), I then re-ran in Auto GK and had no synch problem. So my synch issues were do to bad rips that only affected Auto GK and not DVD Shrink.

So if all you want to do is to reprocess 1 title that fine, but if you keep getting similar synch issues, the above method has corrected all of mine.

So good luck and if I find anything else similar the VDubMod, I'll past it on.

kis2005

11th April 2006, 14:41

It could just be something the programmers that work on Nero discovered with new copy protection and solved it while the guys that do GK just don't know about it. So not really a bug, just something in newer DVD's to trip up ripping software. Kinda expected since Nero is not freeware while GK is.

Tae - I think your on to something. They may be targeting MP4 or XviD / DivX backups. The movies can be backed up to DVD but have issues when converted to mobile or steaming media?

Tae

12th April 2006, 03:07

Tae - I think your on to something. They may be targeting MP4 or XviD / DivX backups. The movies can be backed up to DVD but have issues when converted to mobile or steaming media?

I researched and found that Narnia in particular has some new Ripguard protection in it that a lot of people had problems with until newer versions of AnyDVD came out. Dvd Dycrypter seem to rip it fine, but did not create perfect rips. Apparently Nero and DVD Shrink would throw an error when trying to burn the backup disk. I honestly have not tried to back up the DVD by burning another since I am not intending to use the DVD for playing. I wanted an AVI for XBMC that I can stream on off my PC, it seems XBMC has some trouble with Nero Digital so I was trying to create an AVI instead. I started with Robot4rip and GK, then moved onto Auto GK because of the sync trouble. Neither worked.

For now I went ahead and just created Nero Digital versions split across 3 CD's because about 700 mb is XBMC filesize limit on Nero Digital files before I start having troubles. Any bigger and they just won't play right. I just modded my Xbox, so I am going through my DVD collection adding stuff I enjoy repeated viewing a lot. So I did not want to keep messing with Narnia. I will probably go back to it later. I am new to creating AVI's, just never had a real purpose for it before I got XBMC.

I do find it odd that Nero has a problem burning Narnia but had no problem encoding an MP4 of it.

kis2005

13th April 2006, 03:30

I used PGCedit's PSL2 Plugin which ran it through FixVTS to clean up fake files and had no problem with either DVD backup or Auto GK w/ XviD after that.

DP558-User

13th April 2006, 19:04

Hello people

First of all, thanks to len0x for a great tool!

I have an admittedly minor but still annoying problem that I wonder if anyone else has come across.

I frequently encode a number of VOB-files to DivX with AutoGK. These VOB-files come from my KiSS DP558 harddisk recorder.

Regardless of what I do I get the same error: The audio and the video are out of sync. Fortunately I know how to fix it: VirtualDubMod's Interleaving-stuff, so there is no great problem, but I am still curious.

Recently I turned on the ".debug" option in "Hidden Options" in AutoGK and this gives a clue to what is going on: All the audio files include the phrase "delay 152ms" in their name. So I simply tried using that as the correction in VDubMod (-152 as 'Audio skew correction'). This was spot on, so that makes me wonder why AutoGK introduces the delay in the first place??

Any thought?

Settings:
Target Quality: 70%
Encoding to DivX
Resolution: Auto Width
Audio type: 128Kbps CBR MP3 (KiSS player won't play VBR)

setarip_old

13th April 2006, 22:40

Hi!that makes me wonder why AutoGK introduces the delay in the first place??I'd sooner suspect that your recorder is creating the files with an audio delay.

As an experiment, try ripping a commercial DVD to your hard drive and see if the same delay is introduced...

DP558-User

13th April 2006, 23:16

I'd sooner suspect that your recorder is creating the files with an audio delay.

That would seem logical. But the original VOB-files from the recorder play without a hitch and with perfect sync in various media players on the same PC where I run AutoGK.

setarip_old

13th April 2006, 23:39

That would always be the case anyway - if the created DVD "package" included reference to such a delay.

I'd still suggest you try the experiment I mentioned ...

Dragon Shenron

15th April 2006, 22:21

There still may be something with DGIndex. It corrects the field order of Rip Guard protected titles, which when opened, seem kinda interlaced. The "bad" d2v looks well, without the "interlace effect".
Maybe it doesn't detect properly the audio delay for this titles 'cause of some left behind crap in the vobs?:confused:

DP558-User

16th April 2006, 01:07

That would always be the case anyway - if the created DVD "package" included reference to such a delay.

I'd still suggest you try the experiment I mentioned ...
OK. I tried it with a DVD. Works perfectly. So I guess the recorder is at least partly to blame. I'd still like to understand what's going on though...

newuserxyz

18th April 2006, 10:14

Hi! ... I started this thread 6 weeks ago ... I allways had the problem that audio and video are not synchronous when creating divx's with AGK.
The solution for that problem is quite simple: I had no AC3 codec installed (I installed a codec package that promised it would include all codecs you need ;-)... ). After installing the AC3 codec everything works fine. All films are synchronous, even those I created before the installation of the AC3 .....
What I don't understand is the fact the AGK can use the AC3 option when no codec is installed and even vlc could play the divx (with audio delay). WMP didn't play a sound so I found out that I didn't have the codec installed.

greetz newuserxyz

CWR03

18th April 2006, 10:58

Simply put, AutoGK doesn't need anything installed to use AC3 because it's just copied from the source and muxed directly into the new container with the video.

newuserxyz

18th April 2006, 13:43

hhmm - that's true ... but how is vlc able to play the movie without the codec?

CWR03

18th April 2006, 20:01

VLC contains its own codecs and decodes the file within itself.

gsgleason

19th April 2006, 00:11

setarip_old

19th April 2006, 01:16

Can PGCedit's PSL2 Plugin rip a disc in IFO mode?Nope...

kis2005

19th April 2006, 02:58

question - Can PGCedit's PSL2 Plugin rip a disc in IFO mode? It always seems to use file mode and only file mode when I use the wizard.

I'm still trying to get narnia to work with autogk. I'll stay away from dvdfabdecrypter, it seems. It's done nothing but foul things up for me.

I was able to backup Narnia by first processing with PGCeidit using the PSL2 Wizard and then burning a new disc, which I then used as the source to Rip in IFO mode and processed with Auto GK. Kind of a pain, but it worked and I was also left with a clean DVD.

jeanl

3rd May 2006, 20:35

Guys,
For those of you interested in some technical details on the audio/video delay that you get when dealing with protected DVDs, I can probably explain a little bit.
The protected DVDs all have in common a specific structure that seems to throw off AutoGK: the movie PGC starts with a few tiny "blank" cells (video is black and no audio). This is followed by the "normal" movie cells.
This is an example of such a structure, from the producers R2. The "tiny cells" are circled in red. The actual movie (the studio logo) starts at VCID 2/1. Playback between 1/5 and 2/1 is not supposed to be seamless as you can see from the cell flags.

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/3814/bad14ss.png (http://imageshack.us)

The problem arises from the fact that these tiny cells are not meant to be played seamlessly with the main movie. In other words, in your DVD player, the cells are played (they last only a couple frames), and when you get to the start of the movie cells - VCID 2/1 above - , the audio and video are resynched perfectly (because the first movie cell isn't flagged for seamless playback so the video and the audio are resynched at this point).
I'm guessing that Nero also notices that and resynchs the audio/video at the start of the real movie cells which is why you don't see the a/v bad sync with nero.
Unfortunately, it appears that his is not the case for AutoGK/DGIndex: all the cells in the movie PGC are played as if they were seamless, and this results is some amount of audio/video delay. In the example above, the delay was over 1mn (technically, because the start PTS of the first tiny cell was 25257 and the PTS of the first audio frame - in the first real movie cell - was 5555454).

One solution which has been mentioned in previous posts is to simply remove these dummy cells, and make it so the movie PGC starts with the first real movie cell. This is exactly what the psl plugin does (well, to be exact, it removes the cells from the PGC, then FixVTS or vobblanker removes the corresponding material from the VOB).

But this problem isn't specific to protected DVDs. I'm guessing that any DVD with such a structure (a few cells at the start of the movie PGC, not meant to be played seamlessly with the actual movie cells) would introduce the same kind of problems in AutoGK. The tiny cells in question are not "protected", they're regular black-frame cells, with nothing wrong with them.

In short, there's nothing *really* wrong with such DVDs (other than the protection but that's another story). I'm not sure what needs to be fixed to avoid that problem though, as I'm not familiar with the inner workings of AutoGK...

jeanl

darkpepe

3rd May 2006, 23:15

It had to be DGIndex, no doubt. Now the question is, how to fix it.

Thanks for throwing some light onto the issue!

jeanl

3rd May 2006, 23:20

I can see two ways of fixing it:
1) Kludge: manually adjust the start_pts value of the first navpack to match the start_pts value of the first real movie cell. This is a kludge, not easy to do automatically because you have to figure out exactly where the actual movie starts, and that's not always very easy.
2) Make DGIndex be a bit smarter about how it syncs the audio and the video, but this might be harder to do that I imagine. Essentially, DGIndex should use the audio and video PTS to make sure both are in sync. Maybe that's what it's currently doing, but it looks like it isn't...

Jeanl

Guest

4th May 2006, 02:19

I will first tell you what is happening in DGMPGDec (DGIndex/DGDecode) and then muse about solutions.

DGMPGDec is designed to decode video from an MPEG1/2 stream and deliver it via Avisynth. AVI does not include presentation timestamps, so there is no way to dynamically change the audio-video offset when playing an AVI. When playing MPEG, however, the timestamps allow the sync to be tracked. (Discontinuous timestamps and sync offset changes are common in broadcast environments.)

Currently, DGIndex determines the offset to be used for the entire AVI once at the beginning of the video.

The problem is not limited to DVD, and your situation is just one example of discontinuous timestamps, so fixing it at the PGC level would not be enough.

At a minimum, a timestamp dump can be added to DGIndex. You would be able to see abnormal conditions that might require processing ranges in different projects.

A good thing to do would be to convert the stream to a constant offset stream by inserting/deleting audio/video as needed. Maybe this needs to be a high priority now. Currently, ProjectX is often used to clean up discontinuous streams.

jeanl

4th May 2006, 05:06

neuron2, thanks for the explanation.
Currently, DGIndex determines the offset to be used for the entire AVI once at the beginning of the video.
This explains why we see the video/audio mis-sync: you're computnig the offset from the beginning of the video, and in this case, this results in a 1mn delay.
This also shows that your idea of a "constant offset stream" would not be convenient here: you'd have to insert 1mn of black video between the last cell of the first VOBID and the first cell of the second VOBID, hardly the desired outcome...
I don't know what Project X is, but it's good to know that it can be used to solve such discontinuity problems!
Jeanl

Guest

4th May 2006, 14:33

This also shows that your idea of a "constant offset stream" would not be convenient here: you'd have to insert 1mn of black video between the last cell of the first VOBID and the first cell of the second VOBID, hardly the desired outcome... Not necessarily. You can just delete the unwanted crud at the beginning.

weaver4

6th May 2006, 13:50

No one mentioned the way that I do it so I thought I would chime in. My approach is not free but the authors do keep their software well updated. So if you are only interested in free software stop here.
---------------------------------------------
I use anydvd to rip the DVD to my hard drive. Then I use either CloneDVD2 (also from slysoft), Nero Recode, or DVD shrink to rip the main movie, with the audio/subtitles I want. I set these programs to no compression. Then I take the result and use it to feed AutoGK. No sync problems with any movie.

Vanderlow

8th May 2006, 18:26

I AG an adult film and it's audio was out of sync. I swore I did this film a year ago (and another one) with no audio problems. I believe it has no protection. I now converted the film using the same rip in Divx 6.2 Create and the audio was spot on.

zaldwaik

19th June 2006, 15:31

I record HDTV (ATSC) to my computer, edit commercials with VideoRedo. The result is excellent. I try to encode with AutoGK, and I alwas run into a sync problem. The AC3 sound gradually goes out of synch, it trails the video. I tried to fix it with VirtualDubMod using the method described earlier in this thread, however, the problem stays with a different direction, the sound goes out of synch gradually, but the audio is now ahead of the video.

Any ideas?

CWR03

19th June 2006, 21:29

Yes, it is the norm to have such synch issues with captured material converted with AutoGK. There are a number of solutions that you should be able to find with Search.

klingonscum

25th June 2006, 03:51

I've got an audio/video sync issue too, but it's a slightly different scenario than what I've read on this thread so far in that I'm keeping the original AC3 soundtrack... Here's the details:

Movie: The Incredibles, ripped to HD with DVD Decrypter. When I run AutoGK on the rip, it's scenario #2 from the beginning of this thread: sound starts out about in sync, and ends seriously out of sync by a few seconds by the end of the movie. But I'm using the original AC3 soundtrack, not converting to MP3 or VBR or any of that.

I tried the "Run VirtualDub, under 'Video', 'Framerate' hit 'Change so that video and audio durations match'" recommended solution, and let it process. No effect - in fact, I'm not certain, but it might even be worse by the end of the movie.

Oddly, when in VirtualDub, when I hit the play button, I get this error message: "No audio decompressor could be found to decompress the source audio format (source format tag:2000)" which sort of makes me wonder if VirtualDub can't handle AC3...

--KS

jggimi

25th June 2006, 13:36

0x2000 = ac3, that's ok.

Vdub can't deal with the stream for playback/transcoding. Since you use it with Direct Stream Copy, that shouldn't matter.

klingonscum

26th June 2006, 06:30

Well, I tried a third time to get "The Incredibles" to convert doing a complete re-rip with DVDDecrypter first, but I still have the progressive audio sync problem. This time, however, I discovered something interesting (and the first couple of times it was like this as well, but I didn't notice).

Specific details: First, I did a complete new rip with DVD Decrypter in File mode - no errors, and this rip plays just fine for me directly. I AutoGK'd it this time off of VTS_01_0.IFO, selected the English AC3 6ch soundtrack, No second audio track, No subtitles, and in the Advanced Settings I set it to Minimum Width = 720, Original (AC3) output audio type, and left "Display only forced subtitles" and "Use external subtitles" UNchecked.

After running the conversion, I opened the AVI file. Soundtrack seemed to be relatively in sync at the beginning where they're doing the "hero interviews" - but then, just after that part, something really weird happens - at the 00:02:03 minute mark, where it does the stylized "Incredibles" text graphic intro, the audio and video starts "triple stuttering" - it plays the same second of AV three times in a row, then then next second then the next. And the graphic of the text "The Incredibles" changes in each of the three seconds. The first time it reads "The Incredibles", the second time "Los Increibles", the third "Les Incroyable". This triple stuttering goes on until 00:02:30 - basically, 9 seconds of "real" movie takes up 27 seconds there at the beginning because each second is repeated three times.

Then, it's back to normal - no more stuttering, audio in sync (or very close) but by the end of the movie, out of sync by 3-4 seconds.

So. Do I have a bad initial rip from DVDDecrypter? No errors are occuring and it plays fine in Zoomplayer that way. Or are my initial settings in AutoGK bad somehow? Or do I just need some post-processing with VirtualDub (and remember, I tried Virtual Dub with both audio and video set to "Direct Stream Copy" and selected "Video | Frame Rate", "Change so video and audio durations match", and it almost seemed WORSE after that).

This is a weird one.

--KS

CWR03

26th June 2006, 08:09

In order to prevent the multiple angles (or in this case, language titles) from ripping together into one .VOB, you need to decrypt in .IFO mode. This will solve all your problems at once.

klingonscum

26th June 2006, 20:40

In order to prevent the multiple angles (or in this case, language titles) from ripping together into one .VOB, you need to decrypt in .IFO mode. This will solve all your problems at once.

Thank you - I'll give that a shot tonight and post how it goes.

--KS

klingonscum

27th June 2006, 15:35

In order to prevent the multiple angles (or in this case, language titles) from ripping together into one .VOB, you need to decrypt in .IFO mode. This will solve all your problems at once.

That did the trick! Thanks a lot, really appreciate it.

CWR03

28th June 2006, 02:04

Glad to have helped - as long as the DVD can be successfully ripped by DVD Decrypter it will work, though some ARccOS-protected disks will yield an end file with usually a 1500ms delay in audio. This is quickly and easily fixed with VirtualDubMod.

klingonscum

30th June 2006, 14:20

Ok, next dumb question - I'm trying to convert LotR - Fellowship, but it's the extended version where the movie is spanned across two DVDs. How do I get that into a single seamless AVI? I'm assuming I probably have to rip and convert each into its own AVI and then there's a joiner tool out there?

jggimi

30th June 2006, 19:02

The easiest way to combine a 2-disc set into a single seamless .avi is with VobEdit. Search for "fotr:ee" or "lotr:ee" to find many threads discussing both VobEdit and alternatives.

the_observer

4th July 2006, 19:42

Hi all,

i've read this thread but unfortunatelly i have not seen something like the problem which happened to me.

Well, here it is.
I have a 12 dvd series documentary.
Not copy protected (i think)
As always i used autogk with default settings cause i never had problems with that (i make minor adjustments about lenght for example e.t.c.)
So i managed to rip all dvd's but i have one problem with only one of them.
Well in this one i have an out of synch problem at a specific point of the movie.
In that point it seems as there are two episodes merged.
What i mean is that the movie starts ok.At about 3/4 of the dvd i see end titles ,probably the chapter ends and they have another chapter after it.
Well right after the chapter finishes (end titles) the movie on the dvd continues and it starts another chapter.From there and on i have out of synch problem.

I am a newbbie and i am afraid that maybe i havent described you my problem correctly.Letshope that you understood it as i decribed it and you have a proposition to tell me.

What i thought to do was that maybe i could autogk the vob files of the dvd one by one but then i have no subtitles :(

Any solutions?

Thx mucht for your time reading this.