which player/codec can play this captured HDTV?

[didi156]

I've captured some seconds of the Sat1HD broadcast (first german HDTV FTA channel, AVC 1080i, DD 5.1) and none of the players I've installed (e.g. mplayer, Nero Showtime) can play it:
download link (http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0326863/ATS/Sat1HD-trueHD-20M.m2t)
It may be that the problem is that the file contains only the raw video- and audiostream and no SI-data, but I think it should be possible to be playbacked since the box which has captured this also can.
I've few experience with media players, so I would be happy for hints.

[Revgen]

First of all most decoders don't support interlacing. 2nd of all, I believe that the avc video is in an MPEG2 container. I'm not sure if there are any AVC decoders that can support this.

Is there a way to extract the raw AVC video from the MPEG2 container and put it into an .mp4 or .mkv container?

[clsid]

ffdshow supports interlaced AVC. The MPC test build (see software players forum) can play this file.

[bond]

that file contains avc in .ts
the header signals interlacing, but no frame is interlaced
mplayer for some reason thinks that the stream is mpeg-2 which might explain why it cant play it (it doesnt act that way on pro7 files funnily)
for how to play it: either
1) extract the stream to raw.264 with mplayer, cut away the garbage before the first SPS and reimport to a container you like (i would propose mp4)
2) use gabest's mpgsplitter together with ffdshow

btw ffdshow does _not_ handle interlacing

[didi156]

that file contains avc in .ts
the header signals interlacing, but no frame is interlaced

no frame is interlaced? How can this be if it's 1080i? Or is it 1080p25 which for some strange reasons also fall into the 1080i format?

mplayer for some reason thinks that the stream is mpeg-2 which might explain why it cant play it (it doesnt act that way on pro7 files funnily)

I can't confirm that. Pro7 behaves the same here. "no video".

for how to play it: either
1) extract the stream to raw.264 with mplayer, cut away the garbage before the first SPS and reimport to a container you like (i would propose mp4)
2) use gabest's mpgsplitter together with ffdshow

btw ffdshow does _not_ handle interlacing
Thanks for the hints!


The MPC test build (see software players forum) can play this file.

I don't understand which test build exactly you mean. I downloaded 6.4.8.7 and tried it. It shows some frames and then stops. The best result I had yet, but still not very satisfying...
If it's not the build you meant, can you plz provide me a link?

[bond]

no frame is interlaced? How can this be if it's 1080i? Or is it 1080p25 which for some strange reasons also fall into the 1080i format?well interlacing doesnt necessarily mean that all frames have to be interlaced
eg with the "paff" mode you can have varrying frames progressive and interlaced. eg interlacing might make more sense with sports, whereas progressive might be better for movies

therefore as good as all hdtv content i have seen till now (all produced by tandberg) are paff streams

I can't confirm that. Pro7 behaves the same here. "no video".i have a pro7 capture here and it works fine
i assume the tool you are useing for capturing does something wrong

[didi156]

well interlacing doesnt necessarily mean that all frames have to be interlaced eg with the "paff" mode you can have varrying frames progressive and interlaced. eg interlacing might make more sense with sports, whereas progressive might be better for movies therefore as good as all hdtv content i have seen till now (all produced by tandberg) are paff streams That's interesting. Never heard about that. i have a pro7 capture here and it works fine i assume the tool you are useing for capturing does something wrong Well, it's not really a tool. What I'm doing is to send the data coming directly from the PID-Filter to a file instead of to the decoders. That's the reason why the file may miss some important header information. I don't think the result is standard compliant, but I guess it's possible to be playbacked, since the box itself can. I'm now trying to do something with graphedit... edit: btw, does there exist a tool which shows the filter graph a SW-player is using for a certain file?

edit2: I now found a working config: MPC with the ffdshow MPEG-4 Video filter. How can I prevent A/V to go out of sync? Sadly a P4 3,6 seems too slow to playback this (at least with this codec)...

[didi156]

@bond
I still find the "paff mode" you mentioned very interesting. Aren't all the discussions about 720p vs 1080i obsoleted by this?
Howere, searching the Internet I couldn't really find a good documentation about how this paff mode works and where it is defined. E.g. I have here a draft of ISO/IEC 14496-10 from 2002, there PAFF is never mentioned. I also found this document of a JVT meeting (http://ftp3.itu.ch/av-arch/jvt-site/2006_01_Bangkok/AgendaWithNotes_d5.doc), from which now I know at least that PAFF means "Picture-Adaptive Frame-Field".
It's a long time now that I wonder where the exact meaning of "1080i" and "720p" is defined. This PAFF mode once more makes me ask this question. Can you help me out?

[nm]

Aren't all the discussions about 720p vs 1080i obsoleted by this?
No. 720p is supposed to have 50 or 60 progressive frames per second while 1080i can only carry 25 or 30 progressive frames per second (50 or 60 fields/s).

[didi156]

No. 720p is supposed to have 50 or 60 progressive frames per second while 1080i can only carry 25 or 30 progressive frames per second (50 or 60 fields/s). OK, that's true. But the discussions 1080i vs 720p are mostly about interlaced vs. progressive. In my eyes the fact that 1080i can also be 1080p25 is a big advantage. For example, if you transmit a movie produced with 24 frames/sec, I don't see any advantage in transmitting it in 720p50/60 instead of in 1080i (1080p25/30).
And again, which document defines what 720p and 1080i are?

[nm]

I don't think these shorthands are defined in any formal standard (I could be wrong, so feel free to correct). They are just used informally to shorten the format descriptions. 1080i usually means 1080i50 for PAL and 1080i60 for NTSC. 1080p means either 1080p25/30 or 1080p50/60 depending on the context of the discussion. Same goes for 720p.

[didi156]

I don't think these shorthands are defined in any formal standard (I could be wrong, so feel free to correct). They are just used informally to shorten the format descriptions. 1080i usually means 1080i50 for PAL and 1080i60 for NTSC. 1080p means either 1080p25/30 or 1080p50/60 depending on the context of the discussion. Same goes for 720p.
Hmm, there are people saying that 1080p25/30 belongs to the 1080i format...

[Latexxx]

Hmm, there are people saying that 1080p25/30 belongs to the 1080i format...
That is because these words have never been formally defined. At least EBU's papers about HDTV resolutions use 720p60/50, 1080i50/60 and 1080p25/50/60 extensively.

[Kika]

@didi156

As long as DVB exists, we had interlaced streams only. But a lot if movies are progressive and only encoded in interlaced mode. That's nothing new and did'nt change in 1080i.
And yes, 720p can hold 50 progressive frames - but for movies, that's ... um ... a bit idiotic.
So in fact, no matter if the source is progressive or interlaced, 1080i holds a lot more videoinformations - in any case.