Xvid Ipod Settings on MeGUI [Archive]

Adub

25th February 2006, 22:57

Hi All,
I am encoding a movie for a friend of mine, and instead of using Videora Ipod Converter, which is slower than MeGUI, I want to use MeGUI.
Unfortunaltely I do not own a Video Ipod, so I can not test what settings need to be used under xvid. If someone could tell me what settings i should use or not use, that would be great.
Or if they could upload a MeGui profile that would be awesome.
I am using MeGui ver. .2095 latest from CronoChross, I think.
I read some where the the encoder level has to be simple @ L3, but I could only find that setting with Virtualdub under the VFW interface.

Any help would be appreciated.
P.S. I used Avisynth to resize it to 320*240 if that helps.

Thanks in advance.

This is what I experienced before. Now with the help of several great people, I have collaborated to give an xvid profile that should produce excellent results.
Get it here. (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LKKHSLDV)

Adub

8th March 2006, 04:05

Just to bump this thing up. I don't mean to be annoying but I am curious that no one here has the correct settings. Is there no profile like Sharktooth's, but for Xvid not X264?
Just ignore this if no one knows. I will let this die if no one responds this time.

ChronoCross

8th March 2006, 04:42

Read the following statement made in the ipod video thread(use search)

MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 mbps, 480 x 480, 30 frames per sec., Simple Profile with AAC-LC up to 160 kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats

Adub

8th March 2006, 15:26

Thanks a lot ChronoCross. I did infact use search but I didn't find anything remotely like this in the results.
Okay, I will experiment away then.

Thanks again.

Doom9

8th March 2006, 17:46

well, the next stable megui release will support encraw which in turn eventually will support levels (or rather, they cna be implemented into the frontent akin the avc levels for x264). But if you can figure out some more dos and don'ts that don't match a specific level/profile and let me know about that, that would be great.

Adub

8th March 2006, 21:00

Will do. I will be working on it mostly this weekend, so I should have some results soon.

I will post them as soon as I have them. Thanks.

Adub

9th March 2006, 05:33

By the way, in 2108 of megui, I was just using xvid encraw yesterday, and it was working fine. I got the build off of Berrinam's Megui guide. Is that the lastest Stable Build or what? Because that came out yesterday and you are talking to me today. Time warp? ;)

Doom9

9th March 2006, 08:19

megui has supported encraw for a while, but the vanilla cvs build, not the one by squid_80 with all the modifications. the cvs build cannot be used to implement level/profile control (perhaps profiles would work, levels most certainly don't because they need control over the VBV parameters).

Adub

10th March 2006, 05:28

Oh, I see now. So how long until the next stable release? Any idea? Just wondering, as I love this program. :)

Doom9

10th March 2006, 13:01

Any idea?None.. what I'm trying to achieve is highly complex (finding ideal muxing paths based on knowing what output a certain encoder can provide.. it requires extensive resursivm and that's an area I never really felt comfortable with. ).

Adub

11th March 2006, 02:56

Okay, now are there any settings you want me to test in particular with xvid in megui. I will use Xvid encraw to encode. I may do one encode around 2.5 mbps just to test. most will be around 700 kpbs. I have already done one test with no b frames, at both 320, 240 resolution and 480, 480. I ran the same encode with 2 b frames. Unfortunately I do not have a Video Ipod, so I can not test them just yet, but I have a friend who does, and I will see him on monday.

Like I said, and specific settings. Quant limits? Although I don't think that the vfw version of xvid with simple @L3 has quant limits. Just resolution and bitrate.

I do not think the aspect ratio matters, but I could be wrong. I will either encode with 4:3 or 1:1. But I still don't think it will matter.

Also no trellis or anything like that. Simple @ L3 grays everything out except adaptive quantization.

Again if anyone wants me to create an encode using a certain setting for ipods, post it here, as I will check back later.
Doom9, ChronoCross, Sharktooth, Bond, Berrinam? Just tell me what to use.

Adub

11th March 2006, 03:03

I got knocked off so I thougt it didn't post.

Read above please.

NWDaniels91

13th March 2006, 04:32

In case this wasn't clear already, the 480x480 resolution limit is misleading. The limitation is actually on the total number of pixels, so 480x480 = 230,608 pixels. I made an encode using xvid_encraw that is 752x304 = 228,608 pixels, and it plays perfectly on my iPod. I tried the exact same encode (bitrate of about 1500 kbps) with 2 b-frames, and while it does sort of play it, it's definitely not watchable (it plays fine in Media Player Classic), so it appears that b-frames won't work. If I have time, I may try adding adaptive quantization, Q-Pel, packed bitstream, cartoon mode, etc. (of course, not all at the same time) to see what is iPod-compatible.

Adub

13th March 2006, 05:38

Great man! Post what you find. I made a few encodes this weekend and I will deliver them in a few days. you will probably be faster though. Anyway post what you find.

Thanks man!
Laters,
Merlin

NWDaniels91

14th March 2006, 05:29

Quick question for Merlin7777: Why not use AVC for videos on the iPod? I have quite a few videos on mine, and I've always used x264 (via MeGUI). Yes, the resolution and bitrate have to be lower on AVC , but in the end, the video quality is very similar, and it takes up less hard drive space.

Adub

14th March 2006, 17:36

In truth? It is faster. Although at that video size it doesn't make a huge difference. Also I am curious about what the Ipod can support and what it can't. If I must I will use sharktooth's ipod profile for X264, but I like speed and quality. Although with the developments recently in X264, I may no longer need xvid for speed.

I think mainly I am just curious. Also Doom9 asked to be notified of my/your findings. So post your results when you get them.
Thanks NWDaniels91!

We had snow day to day so I won't have my results for a little longer. You may have them already. Thanks.

Laters,
Merlin7777

NWDaniels91

15th March 2006, 09:08

Here's the basic setup for the encodes:
- 4 minute 19 second music video
- 25 fps
- 150 kbps VBR LC-AAC 44100 Hz audio file
- used xvid_encraw from link in Berrinam's MeGUI guide
- used 752x304 resolution
- used MeGUI 0.2.3.2108

My previous encode with 2 B-frames didn't work (as reported above), but I was curious to see if it was only multiple B-frames that the iPod had problems with. So I tried it with just one B-frame. The result: same problem as before.

I then turned basically all the options that MeGUI had for XviD off, and then made separate encodes with each option on, one at a time. So here's what I came up with:

- B-frames: Plays, but is unwatchable
- Adaptive Quantization: Works fine
- Chroma Motion: Works fine
- Chroma Optimizer: Works fine
- Packed Bitstream: Works fine
- Trellis: Works fine
- Q-Pel: Doesn't work
- Cartoon Mode: Works fine

Just to make sure I didn't do anything wrong, I tried Q-Pel with 700 kbps CBR and with 2-pass 1400 kbps average, but iTunes wouldn't even attempt to load either of them.

I am not sure if there are any other settings that need to be tested. If so, let me know and I'll try to get to it as soon as I can. One test I haven't tried yet is using all of these settings that worked on the same encode. In theory, it should work, but you never know...

Adub

16th March 2006, 00:24

Great! Thanks for testing man. I think I will give up on my testing as you already have used the settings I was using and my tester has not shown up for several days now. Again thanks for the info.

P.S. I take it that there are no issues with the quantizers than?
Rock on!

chipzoller

11th April 2006, 16:25

Merlin,

You still working on this?

You don't have access to profiles if you don't use VfW end of Xvid.
I do have a video iPod and can test anything you like. I'm also trying to find optimal settings for ASP via Xvid (either mencoder or encraw) through megui. x264 content works fine, but like you said is slow, albeit it does use less diskspace.

Sharktooth has an iPod profile for x264 which works fine, and I've seen the specs on Apple's site...just would like to avoid VfW->MP4 remuxing if I can and create natively through megui.

Adub

11th April 2006, 16:55

Sure I could be working on it. As I said I don't have an Ipod to test it on but I would like to figure out its limitations and so on.

You have a video Ipod? Good for you. I am waiting until the next generation. Anyway, testing settings.

Try the settings that NWDaniels91 said worked. But try them all at the same time.

Also you can try it with Mencoder or Xvid encraw. I am using squid 80's build or Celtic Druid's build. I will get you a link.

Here is one to Squid 80's:
http://okejl.dk/dunstan/xvid_encraw_megui_test.zip

And here is one to Celtic Druid's:
http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/XviD/xvid_encraw.7z
you will probably need to insert the Xvidcore.dll into the same folder for it to run properly. Squid's will run standalone.

Like I said, try testing the settings that worked all together. We will work it from there.

Thanks for posting man!

chipzoller

11th April 2006, 16:58

Or if you want to test your settings I can help out there on the ipod.

...will check soon

Adub

11th April 2006, 17:01

Great man. Just Great!

chipzoller

11th April 2006, 17:11

encoded via VfW interface in Vdub Xvid at advanced simple-L3 700 bitrate and resized to 320x240. AAC-LC audio at 96 and muxed with yamb.

Source video for testing:

Info : DivX 5.0
Bit rate : 718 Kbps
Width : 352
Height : 240
Aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 29.97 fps
(Pixel*Frame) : 0.284

Source size: 7.31
resulting MP4: 6.68

Looks very good...encoding quite fast.

I'll have to look at those settings the other guy posted later tonight. I'd like to either find or a make a Xvid megui profile for this eventually (since I can't find one)

As one of the previous testers said...b-frames won't work, but at least you don't have deal with the PBS problem if you use VfW Xvid through Vdub or the likes when remuxing.

Adub

11th April 2006, 19:49

Keep me posted. I would love to help you build a Xvid Ipod Profile. I think we can test quantizers next, along with a few other settings. Good Luck!

chipzoller

11th April 2006, 20:00

Just FYI and for this thread...

iPod (5th gen) video specs.:

*H.264 video: up to 768 Kbps, 320 x 240, 30 frames per sec., Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats

*MPEG-4 video: up to 2.5 mbps, 480 x 480, 30 frames per sec., Simple Profile with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats

chipzoller

11th April 2006, 20:13

And is it just my mistake or does megui not have (in the config. box for mencoder or encraw) profile settings like in the VfW frontend?

For the VfW test I did, I set advanced simple, but simple (provided they're both at L3) works also.

Evidently Xvid_encraw should really be used when encoding from megui. I'll come up with some settings soon.

Adub

12th April 2006, 00:45

And no, it is not you mistake. There are no profiles in MeGUI. That is why we are working to create some.

chipzoller

12th April 2006, 00:54

But why no Xvid internal profiles in the encoder config? Surely this can be done without falling back on VfW???

foxyshadis

12th April 2006, 01:35

Profiles and Levels (the mpeg and divx ones, not the megui ones) are in the unfinished update Doom9 was working on, waiting for someone to pick it up and finish it.

chipzoller

12th April 2006, 02:03

foxyshadis: Can you please clarify? I'm not sure what you mean by "not the megui ones".

foxyshadis

12th April 2006, 10:11

Like sharktooth's profiles, sets of named options to provide easy encoding and a starting point for configuring, which are what merlin thought you were referring to. As opposed to mpeg/divx profiles, which specify various restrictions.

chipzoller

12th April 2006, 22:48

After talking to Squid about this, it seems the consensus is to only add -vbvsize and -vbvmax to enforce this profile/level. But because megui doesn't have the ability, like the x264 side of the encoder config, to add manual command, we're kind of stuck. I think Squid actually mentioned that he can create the appropriate profile/level using the megui encoder config dialog only, but I've yet to hear the options he chose.

Merlin: here (http://www.arches.uga.edu/~czoller/encraw_ipod.xml) is the profile I created for encraw (megui) by copying options for the appropriate profile/level from the VfW interface. I am lead to believe that the addition of -vbvsize and -vbvmax are only required to enfore the level. Take a look and see what you find.

foxyshadis: As opposed to mpeg/divx profiles, which specify various restrictions.

Well technically profiles for xvid should be handled the same way. Because naturally a profile and level specify what can and cannot be used, so they are both inclusive options and exclusive options. The only difference here is that nothing is really disabled, it's just not enabled, if that makes sense :)

numaios

13th April 2006, 05:58

Excuse me, but where is the iPod video thread?

I've done search and I haven't found anything...

chipzoller

13th April 2006, 13:30

I don't think there is an official one. It depends on iPod video with x264 or with Xvid.

Adub

15th April 2006, 02:14

Do we really need to 2 pass it? I mean It is a tiny screen. You would have to have the eyes of a hawk to see artifacts on that thing, right?

Also, Why not use Adaptive Quantization?

chipzoller

15th April 2006, 03:01

I would personally use it because converting to just ASP MPEG-4 is so fast anyway, and I'm not really in a rush. But yes, you can see artifacts and macroblocks even on that screen because it's very detailed.

As for AQ--Is that not what I had set in the profile? If not it should have been...this doesn't define the tools used in the advanced simple profile (L 1.3).

I still haven't heard back from Squid regarding -vbvmax and -vbvsize somehow added into a profile. It'll probably be when Doom9 finishes his support for xvid_encraw, whenever that is.

Adub

15th April 2006, 20:18

yeah, AQ was not added into the profile, all there is is Trellis.

So you can still see artifacts on that screen, huh? That sucks. Okay, stick with the 2 pass. Also we could try chroma optimizer. It will squeeze out a little more color quality. It should be compatible.

Also does anyone know if there are quantizer limits on the Ipod? Anyone?