Saw II: Menu navigation lost on Return to Main

[JFerguson]

I'm having problems with Saw II R1 after a run through DVD-RB Pro 1.08.1. This is through testing in PowerDVD v4.

When I load up the files, navigation works on the opening main menu. When I click off to Setup, for example, then back to main menu, navigation is lost (the red Xs (highlights) are gone).

I don't have this problem with the original. I did a test transcode through DVD Shrink, and it doesn't exhibit this problem either.

FYI - thanks...

p.s. - I'm using CCE.

[JFerguson]

Ok, this appears to be a problem with Menu 07. For the hell of it, I extracted this menu from the original image using VobBlanker. I then loaded the DVD-RB image in VobBlanker and replaced this menu with this extracted one.

I didn't know if this would do anything, but it appears to have fixed it? The menu navigation appears to work now.

Let me know if there are any files or debug information I can supply to help with this...

[Zeul]

You haven't explicitly stated this - but i assume that you menu re-encoding enabled. If when you're going back to the main menu the highlights are missing it suggests that no highlight information is present in the cell that is being 'jumped' to. I am sure jdobbs will make some suggestions. I assume there has been no pre-processing first.

[jdobbs]

I'll check it out tomorrow with Saw II.

One thing I would suggest, though, is to try the exact same set of steps on the original disc. When I was testing the menu functions I found a lot of small anomalies on discs -- things like clicking to another menu, and when I clicked back something had changed or responded differently. I then (of course after spending too much time trying to find it in the code) eventually went back and tested the original -- only to find it does the exact same thing.

Also -- please, please (everyone -- this isn't aimed at JFerguson) always state when and if you have performed any type of preprocessing. This is important so I can eliminate other influences. I am always willing to accept and correct bugs... but from my experience, the vast majority of reported bugs in DVD-RB that involved preprocessing have been self-inflicted injuries...

Also experiences with DVD Shrink simply don't apply to DVD Rebuilder. Shrink doesn't really do any true reading, interpreting, or encoding of the DVD... saying it "worked with Shrink" is like saying "my car won't start but my boat works fine -- so there's obviously a problem with the road."

[JFerguson]

Ok, to clarify things:

Source was Saw II R1 ripped via DVD Decrypter v3.5.4.0 (Mode, ISO, Read), with all Remove options enabled under "ISO Read Mode" settings (e.g., Remove IFO Structure Protection, etc.). ISO image file was mounted via Alcohol 120% v1.9.2b1705.
No preprocessing was performed.
Menu encoding was enabled, with option vtsm_min_size=1280 in project file.
DVD-RB resultant image tested in PowerDVD v4.0 (.EXE version = 4.0.0.2417)
Original DVD does not produce this "lost navigation" anomaly


The DVD Shrink reference was meant as a control, but it sounds like noting the original DVD's behavior was sufficient.

Thanks...

p.s. -- Here's the entire project file:

[Options]
TargetSectors=2306833
vts_min_size=1
vtsm_min_size=1280
Mode=1
OneClick=0
ReduceOpt=1
NoWarn=1
AdditionalOutput=1
LogFile=1
QuEncHQ=1
EncoderMinimized=0
RemoveDTS=0
HC_Quality=1
HC_Matrix=1
CCE=3
SkinVersion=9
Skin=Rebuilder Default
QuEncodeType=0
ProCoder_Quality=4
DVD_Label=SAW_2
DVD_Name=SAW_2.ISO
MovieOnly=0
HalfD1=000000000000000000
Convert_16_9=000000000000000000
DisableInterlace=000000000000000000
SkipPrepare=1
VLowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
AudioDub=1
iDCT=0
GOP=0
DCPrec=0
MainMatrix=Encoder Default
LowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ExtraMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ConvertToYUY2=1
Encode_Menus=1
[Paths]
QuEnc=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\Encoders\QuEnc\QuEnc.exe
ReJig=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\Encoders\ReJig\ReJig.exe
HC=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\Encoders\HC Encoder\HCbatch.EXE
ProCoder=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\Encoders\EclPro\EclPro.exe
DECOMB=D:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll
MPEG2DEC=D:\Program Files\DVD Rebuilder PRO\DGDecode.dll
Working=G:\!DVDWork\!DVDRB6\
Output=H:\!DVDWork\!DVDRB6\
CCENew=D:\Program Files\Custom Technology\CCE SP Trial Version\cctspt.exe
Source=X:\VIDEO_TS\
[Audio]
Selected=100000001111111111111111
[Subpictures]
Selected=10000000000000000000000000000000

[Zeul]

Just as a sidenote i would suggest never use unusual folder names - you never know how some apps may respond. So a folder named !DVDWork is asking for trouble.

[jdobbs]

Just a quick question... is there something significant about choosing vtsm_min_size=1280? It seems like an odd choice for sizing.

[jdobbs]

I just tested it (Saw II, NTSC, R1) with menu encoding on and vtsm_min_size=1280. The only difference I see is that I'm using PowerDVD v6.0.

Ripped with DVD Decrypter (same version), ISO mode.
Mounted with Daemon Tools (I don't have Alcohol).
Ran it through with all default settings except VTSM_MIN_SIZE.


Everything is working correctly.

I'll play with different settings and run it a couple more times.

I just copied your [Options] settings into my INI file and will now run it again.

[jdobbs]

@JFerguson

Something is wrong here. I don't think the INI file you posted could have been used with v1.08.1... if it had, the "SkinVersion" variable would have been automatically updated (I noticed it updated when I loaded your OPTIONS). Yours reads version 9 -- v1.08.1 would have updated it to 12 (as would any of the last several versions of DVD-RB). Version 9 would have been related to DVD-RB v1.03????

[jdobbs]

Ok, regardless of the the SkinVersion (who knows?) -- I've been able to repeat the problem using your OPTIONS settings... I'll start looking deeper to find out what's at the root of it.

Just for my information... why do you have the TargetSectors set so high? The output was much too large to fit on a DVD-5 -- it's 4.45GB.

[LakersFan]

Just so you know, I had this exact same problem with Saw II using v1.07 (menu encoding enabled). I updated tried again and now it works. I figured it was just a bug fix from 1.07 to 1.08.

[jdobbs]

Interesting.

I ran it and it worked fine -- but when I used the settings provided I could repeat it. I haven't determined what setting was the cause as yet.

[jdobbs]

Ok. I've fixed this one. It will be included in the next release. This one required an odd set of circumstances. The primary cause of the error was an incorrect setting of the HLI_GI (Highlight Status). It was set to "2" instead of "1" in the first NAVPACK. It was the result of a coincidental matching of the VOBID/CELLID combination in two sequential cells. The reason it happened in your cases but not in my initial attempts to repeat it was because you'd set the VTS_MIN_SIZE variable to 1... and VTS_17 (which was only 7MB) was processed immediately before the VTSM_01 causing the coincidence.

[JFerguson]

Hey guys, I'm back. I had to change a stabilizer bar on my minivan and if you ever work on cars -- well, you know how sometimes those things go... ;)

Anyway, that job's done. Um, to answer a few questions:

Zeul, you're right about folder names -- I think I've found a feature or two with programs in the past with this practice. I bang folders just to give them priority sorting in various GUIs (Windows Explorer, Beyond Compare, Norton Commander clones, etc.). No problems so far with DVD-RB.

jdobbs, I set vtsm_min_size=1280 because I figured if I'm going to do the big animated menus (at ~22MB or greater in this case), I might as well do the small ones too. The smallest I could see in Saw II were Menus 43,44 at 3MB. 1280 is about 2.5MB?

jdobbs, that ini file of mine. Yeah, that explains why I get that Skins message every time I load a project. See, I usually work on three or four projects at a time, and I don't like doing all of the prework (selecting folders, etc) and stuff. So, I created some template files a while back (v1.03??), copy and rename them (e.g., SAW_2.RBD) and just load those when I work these projects. I always saved them when DVD-RB was done Preparing and I did my blanking. If you could tell me what to do in this workflow to keep these up to date, I can certainly do that.

jdobbs, I postprocess my DVD-RB projects, hitting the menus with DVD Shrink or VobBlanker when DVD-RB finishes. In the past, this made a lot of sense, because DVD-RB didn't do menus. With your new version, you do the menus, but I haven't figured out what controls the level they're compressed at, just that it's lower than what DVD Shrink would do. In this project, DVD-RB compressed the menus approximately to 69.7% of original. DVD Shrink estimated it could compress them down to 39.7% of original. Anyway, the Saw II Menus were a little thick at 310MB and I figured at minimum, I would probably convert the Chapter Menus to stills in postprocessing and through some funky formula I use, I came up with TargetSectors values of 2306833, estimated 4.46GB.

I got an undersize of 4.42GB, you got 4.45GB?

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you figured this one out -- hope it wasn't too much trouble...

[JFerguson]

Just an update: I got that INI file straightened out. I installed a fresh copy of the software, went in and did all of my settings and exited the program. Copied all the new settings from rebuilder.ini to my template file and it looks good now, no Skins message on startup.

I guess when we install a new version of the software (overwriting a previous version) we should do this (assuming there's a copy of rebuilder.ini being overwritten/updated):

1) Fire up the software.
2) Spot check the settings (loaded from rebuilder.ini)
3) Exit the software.
4) Copy settings from rebuilder.ini to saved template files.

Does that sound about right?