DV -> anothercodec for DVD5 backup

[Djago]

Hi!

I'm having a headache looking for the best way to reencode my miniDVs to another format so I can put a complete miniDV in a DVD5 for later use/backup/share.

The idea is to change from DV codec to something that can be later used as a source for editing. I know that DV would be the best source, but the cost of a miniDV tape is a lot more than a DVD5 and new codecs (like mpeg4) are a lot better with compression. So I think there should be one that could give me 3:1 ratio for storing 1h DV in a DVD5 without destoying the data (like mpeg2 would do).
So, I'm asking if someone has done it... and how...

What's the best codec for this? And what are the best settings? And what is the best frontend to have a good & quick workflow?
Codec should be fast, should have a future, and must be usefull for editing later on Premiere and such programs. Also, there should be an easy to use & workflow friendly frontend for that codec (I mean, using VirtualDUB-MPEG for doing 60 avi in 2-pass xvid is not difficult, but tedious and time consuming).

My VERY preliminar findings is that:
* DivX 6.1.1 can't go beyond 4000 kbits/sec (or I don't know how to do this);
* x264 seems to have good quality but is still to complex for an easy setup workflow (is there an easy way?);
* Nero is even harder for a quick workflow;
* xvid seems ok in quality at 10000kbits/sec; right now is my first choice (what frontend is recommended for a 2-pass work?)
* didn't try other codecs/variances like Flash video, another h264, real, WindowsMedia (I think that you can't use it as source for editing programs very easily), ...
* I've tried some frontends, but most of them don't have a good interface for configuring the codec.

Seems to me that most codecs are optimized for low bitrates... Is that right?

Thanks!

[communist]

This has been discussed a lot of times before. Any reencode to the formats mentioned will be lossy (except x264 in lossless mode - it does have that right?). Try using those codecs with fixed quantizer (like 2). Anyway the recommendation is always keep the tape :)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=101514
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=92590
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=83030
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=78853
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=72891
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=83030
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=71441
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=38639

[Djago]

I think that all those threads are related to my question, but thery're not my question and they doesn't have the answer.
First of all, no one mention about the workflow, something very important for big quantities.
Second of all, I've discarded mpeg2 because at 3:1 ratio quality is worst than any mpeg4.
Third, no one recommends ANY codec as they basically recommend keep them in miniDV, or transfer "as is" to 3 DVDs, or convert to mpeg2...

[communist]

The point is:
Lossy reencoding will result in lower quality, takes its time (especially with a lot of tapes). If you later decide that you want to edit something and put it on tape/DVD etc. you'll have to reencode again (another time factor and more loss of quality).

The workflow is no different to any other encoding procedure (and not much different for big quantities). There is a detailed guide about "how to perform a 2pass encode with XviD in VirtualDub" http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/xvid-vdub-11.htm.

Noone recommended a codec so far because:
a) most people here were/are convinced its a lot less hassle (and time/quality saving) to just keep the tapes
b) they could only recommend it if they were using it actually for that purpose

As I said try XviD / x264 and see if it works for you (tryout with short samples) in const. quant mode.

Once you have found the right codec and parameters you can automate it using a cli encoder (or encoding app like avs2avi) and batch.

[Kika]

An other idea is to use MPEG2 a special way.

TMPGEnc as Encoder, no B-Frames, GOP-size 14, CQ-Mode 80-85, Min 3500 kbps, Max. 9500 kbps. The advantage of this way: it's playable on any DVD-Player - and without the B-Frames it is easy to handle if you decide to cut or reencode it later.

[Djago]

The point is:
Lossy reencoding will result in lower quality, takes its time (especially with a lot of tapes). If you later decide that you want to edit something and put it on tape/DVD etc. you'll have to reencode again (another time factor and more loss of quality).


Ok, time is not my problem. :p I have 2 Atholn64 that are sleepy at night ;)
Quality is important, but I think that if I stay at high quality, 2 encodes will lower the final quality enough for my purpouses.


The workflow is no different to any other encoding procedure (and not much different for big quantities). There is a detailed guide about "how to perform a 2pass encode with XviD in VirtualDub" http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/xvid-vdub-11.htm.


Very good guide (I've already seen it before) :goodpost:


Noone recommended a codec so far because:
a) most people here were/are convinced its a lot less hassle (and time/quality saving) to just keep the tapes
b) they could only recommend it if they were using it actually for that purpose


a) In my country the price per Gb is 1.6Gb/$ (miniDV) vs 2.7Gb/$ (DVD5). If have lot's of tapes, then lossing time/quality IS an option...
b) That's why I'm asking... to know if somebody here has done it before ;)


As I said try XviD / x264 and see if it works for you (tryout with short samples) in const. quant mode.

Once you have found the right codec and parameters you can automate it using a cli encoder (or encoding app like avs2avi) and batch.


I've tried with some files with XviD and quality is very good at 10000, but the way of doing it with vdub it's a pain in the ass :) . I'll try that "cli encoder" you said... I'll look for a good guide!

As for x264 it's still harder to setup! (as I said in the original post). I wonder if those codecs are so different at HIGH bitrates... anyone knows?


An other idea is to use MPEG2 a special way.

TMPGEnc as Encoder, no B-Frames, GOP-size 14, CQ-Mode 80-85, Min 3500 kbps, Max. 9500 kbps. The advantage of this way: it's playable on any DVD-Player - and without the B-Frames it is easy to handle if you decide to cut or reencode it later.


I'm trying not to use mpeg2 because I think that at same bitrate mpeg4 codecs are better and I prefer to sacrifice time reencoding for a propably later editing... Thanks anyway!

[Kika]

You asked for 1h DV on a DVD5, at Bitrates that high, MPEG2 without B-Frames is the better choice, because it's easier to handle and it gives you a very good picture Quality.

[Djago]

Is MPEG2 better than MPEG4 at high bitrates in terms of quality? (I don't mind the way to handle files right now, I prefer quality)

[Kika]

Not better, but at bitrates that high quality should be the same. If you want more than 1 h on a DVD5, choose MPEG4.
MPEG2 is faster to encode and without B-Frames, cutting is easy (if you decide to do so later).

[scharfis_brain]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104484

[Djago]

Ok, thanks for all!

I'll look on mpeg2 to see how can I do a good workflow... I'm thinking on using cce. I know that If I ask I'll receive recomendations to use all encoders, but is there some encoder that's NOT recommended?

By the way, Is there any way of disabling B-Frames in CCE 2.70?