16:9 MPEG-2 to 16:9 MPEG-1 possible?

[TakuSkan]

I'm having problems using TMPGEnc to transcode 16:9 MPEG-2 DVD files to MPEG-1 files for playback on an old notebook, and still keep the proper 16:9 apsect ratio when playing in Windows Media player 6.4.

From what I recall reading up on creation and playback of the DVD aspect ratios, the decoder is responsible for properly interpreting the DAR of 16:9, and displaying it stretched horizontally properly.

Frame captures from the original DVD VOB show the same squeezed horizontally, stretched vertically frames I'm seeing when I play back MPEG-1 video files I've transcoded with TMPGEnc.

I thought maybe the problem was with Windows 2000's WMP 6.4 on my old Toshiba Libretto not properly resizing the DAR to 16:9. But even PowerDVD on my desktop is playing these MPEG-1 encoded files back squeezed horizontally, stretched vertically, and not in the proper 16:9 widescreen apsec ratio as it does the original DVD VOBs.

Could this be a limitation of the MPEG-1 format? I'm wondering if MPEG-2 might be a requirement for having DVD players interpret a 16:9 playback properly.

If not, could someone point me to where I might learn about transoding DVD files to playback in a proper apsect ratio in MPEG-1 files for playback on an older underpowered notebook.

Thx,

TS

[Amnon82]

Normaly there is no problem. You can do a 16:9 encoded mpeg1 file. Normaly MPG1 is 4:3. You can use FitCD to convert 16:9 to 4:3 adding black bars to it.
Otherwise you can cut a short sample out of your encode and up it to megauploads.com so I can try it on my pc. Also the PC display displays 4:3 on a 1280x1024 resolution with black bars, thats cos it is not realy 4:3. To get real 4:3 you've to use 1280x960 for example.

[Boulder]

MPEG1 doesn't support 16:9 so that might be the reason for the problem - i.e. the players don't expect you to feed them with such material and show that as 4:3 only. If you use Media Player Classic to play the files, you can choose the display A/R manually.

Why not use MPEG2?

[TakuSkan]

MPEG1 doesn't support 16:9 so that might be the reason for the problem - i.e. the players don't expect you to feed them with such material and show that as 4:3 only.
Sounds like what I'd been guessing at. It seems MPEG-2 is a basic requirement to interpret the 16:9 aspect ratio display properly.

I tried forcing TMPGEnc to take the 740x480 source, and stretch it to something greater than 740 horizontally. But it ended up placing black bars on the right and left edged, and not stretching the video. There must be a way around that, and create a 16:9 aspect ratio in a MPEG-1 file for proper playback.

If you use Media Player Classic to play the files, you can choose the display A/R manually.
Hmm... WMP can force stretching the video? I Haven't seen that. I'll have a look.

EDIT: I see no such options in to old WMP v6.4... :-/

Why not use MPEG2?
The PI 233MHz CPU in this little old Libretto doesn't have the power to deal with MPEG-2 playback.

TS

[Boulder]

Not WMP but Media Player Classic.

http://sf.net/projects/guliverkli

[TakuSkan]

Not WMP but Media Player Classic.

http://sf.net/projects/guliverkli
Heh... I downloaded that the other day to test out. Am looking for A/R settings in it.... hmmmm....

Edit... Can't seem to find any settings to force a display A/R.

Edit2: Ah... right click menu > video frame > override aspect ratio > 16:9

But it's not resizing the video I transcoded in TMPGEnc. When choosing to override the aspect ratio, and force 16:9, the display widen's horizontally a bit. But not to full 16:9. I may have some black side bars in there. I'll have a closer look.

[Boulder]

Well, if you can't get it working, I suggest you do a 16:9->4:3 conversion with Avisynth which might also be better regarding your old computer.

[TakuSkan]

I just checked my test files for side bars, but there are none. I can see the Media Player Classic image a bit better now, and no... they're not there either. It's just not stretching things sideways far enough for some reason.

Well, if you can't get it working, I suggest you do a 16:9->4:3 conversion with Avisynth which might also be better regarding your old computer.
A 16:9->4:3 conversion, not a 4:3->16:9 conversion? The logic here is a bit fuzzy for me. The original is a 16:9 image in a black border letterbox 4:3 encoded video file.

Do you know any guides on this. Maybe over at www.doom9.org... I'll look. I've got a whole quiver of video tools I've been learning about in the past couple of months, but Avisynth has escaped me up to now.

[Boulder]

If the original file is flagged as 16:9, you do a 16:9->4:3 conversion. Open the VOBs in DGIndex and see what it tells you. The frame size in the VOB is the same (720x576 for PAL, 720x480 for NTSC) in both cases.

One way to do the conversion is to use DVD2SVCD which can also do DVD2DVD conversions. The better way is to learn Avisynth:) You can start at www.avisynth.org if you want to scratch the surface.

[TakuSkan]

Normaly there is no problem. You can do a 16:9 encoded mpeg1 file. Normaly MPG1 is 4:3. You can use FitCD to convert 16:9 to 4:3 adding black bars to it.
Well... It's already in that format from the original DVD VOB. Maybe I can use a filter in TMPGEnc to remove the bars, and set the apsect ratio of the output file to 16:9.

Otherwise you can cut a short sample out of your encode and up it to megauploads.com so I can try it on my pc.
If you want to play, and have a specific URL, I can send you something.

Also the PC display displays 4:3 on a 1280x1024 resolution with black bars, thats cos it is not realy 4:3. To get real 4:3 you've to use 1280x960 for example.
Yeah... That's all set okay.

[TakuSkan]

If the original file is flagged as 16:9, you do a 16:9->4:3 conversion. Open the VOBs in DGIndex and see what it tells you. The frame size in the VOB is the same (720x576 for PAL, 720x480 for NTSC) in both cases.
Interesting. I found DGIndex in AutoGK's program folder. It reports the VOB's characteristics as: 16:9, 720x480, progessive frame. But it displays the video with the same horizonal inward squeeze as my TMPGEnc files are showing. PowerDVD displays the video properly.

One way to do the conversion is to use DVD2SVCD
I tried something similar with TMPGEnc. But it seems SVCDs are MPEG-2 based... at least the ones TMPGEnc are making for me.

which can also do DVD2DVD conversions.
Which must be what you're driving at. But I'm not sure that's what I want, is it? Going to DVD means going to the MPEG-2 format that I don't want.

The better way is to learn Avisynth:) You can start at www.avisynth.org if you want to scratch the surface.
If that'll get me to where I can transcode what I have to a 16:9 video file with no letterbox, that would probably get me to my objective. I'll have a look.

[Boulder]

Interesting. I found DGIndex in AutoGK's program folder. It reports the VOB's characteristics as: 16:9, 720x480, progessive frame. But it displays the video with the same horizonal inward squeeze as my TMPGEnc files are showing. PowerDVD displays the video properly.

That's because the widescreen image is in the 720x480 frame. It is resized upon playback if the player understands that the item is flagged as 16:9.

Which must be what you're driving at. But I'm not sure that's what I want, is it? Going to DVD means going to the MPEG-2 format that I don't want.

Oh hell, I shouldn't try to work and write at the same time. I immediately forgot that you want a MPEG1 video :p

Like Amnon said, you can use FitCD. Open the VOBs in DGIndex, save the project file and then open it in FitCD. Choose appropriate parameters, that is, anamorphic for the source (should be automatically checked) and non-anamorphic for the destination. Choose the destination resolution (probably 720x480). You have the Avisynth script in the window, copy-paste it in Notepad and save as something.avs. You can then open the avs file in an encoder to encode the video doing a 16:9->4:3 conversion.

[TakuSkan]

Well I'm zeroing in on getting TMPGEnc to create a proper file. I used a filter to clip the top and bottom of the 720x480 letterbox and specified 16:9 NTSC as source and output type. The resulting file plays with the proper A/R in PowerDVD and Media Player Classic.

But for some reason MPC requires more system resources than the old WMP v6.4 on my Libretto. As a result it doesn't play the file smoothly. That was the same problem I had when I was testing it the other day on older video files that play fine in WMP.

And WMP v6.4 doesn't do the same magic to stretch these new files to the proper 16:9 A/R. So it's back to the drawing board.

Like Amnon said, you can use FitCD. Open the VOBs in DGIndex, save the project file and then open it in FitCD. Choose appropriate parameters, that is, anamorphic for the source (should be automatically checked) and non-anamorphic for the destination. Choose the destination resolution (probably 720x480). You have the Avisynth script in the window, copy-paste it in Notepad and save as something.avs. You can then open the avs file in an encoder to encode the video doing a 16:9->4:3 conversion.
Sounds like some of the procedures I've read around here... If I can get a handle on it I'll see what kind of file it produces.

You can then open the avs file in an encoder to encode the video doing a 16:9->4:3 conversion.
I'll have to find and encoder that accepts the file. TMPGEnc doesn't appear to.

[Boulder]

If TMPGEnc won't open the avs file, you need to install the readavs.dll library.

http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/files/readavs.zip

But for some reason MPC requires more system resources than the old WMP v6.4 on my Libretto. As a result it doesn't play the file smoothly. That was the same problem I had when I was testing it the other day on older video files that play fine in WMP.

You could try disabling MPC's internal MPEG1 decoder, I think it has one. One thing to try is installing a recent ffdshow and enabling MPEG1 decoding there, then trying to play the file in MPC.

[SeeMoreDigital]

It is possible to apply 16:9 DAR signalling to an 720x576 or an 720x480 MPEG-1 video stream.... If this is what you want to achieve?

[TakuSkan]

If TMPGEnc won't open the avs file, you need to install the readavs.dll library.
I've copied the dll to TMPGEnc's program folder, modified the path in the .reg file to the dll with the double \\ slashes, and opened TMPGEnc. But I see it not on any menus. Where does the .avs file load from within TMPGEnc?

Edit: Ah... is this it:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=92637

7. Open up TMPGEnc Plus, follow the wizard and use DV.avs as source
8. Open TMPGEnc DVD Author and follow the wizard.

[Boulder]

I've copied the dll to TMPGEnc's program folder, modified the path in the .reg file to the dll with the double \\ slashes, and opened TMPGEnc. But I see it not on any menus. Where does the .avs file load from within TMPGEnc?
You need to doubleclick on the .reg file to let it edit the registry.

[TakuSkan]

You need to doubleclick on the .reg file to let it edit the registry.
Yes... I neglected to say I did that. I'll try the wizard now

Okay... I ran the .avs file I created via the TMPGEnc wizard successfully. But the output file is just blank black video. Maybe because I loaded my demuxed test m2v file through DGIndex 1st.

[TakuSkan]

It is possible to apply 16:9 DAR signalling to an 720x576 or an 720x480 MPEG-1 video stream.... If this is what you want to achieve?
I'm not sure what you're saying there, but it sounds good. How is that achieved?

Sorry I missed your post earlier

[Boulder]

Okay... I ran the .avs file I created via the TMPGEnc wizard successfully. But the output file is just blank black video. Maybe because I loaded my demuxed test m2v file through DGIndex 1st.
Can you open the file in VirtualDub? If so, what does it show? For TMPGEnc you should use ConverttoRGB24() instead of ConverttoYUY2 if that's what is in your script. If there is no Converttoxxx line, add it as the last item and try again.

[TakuSkan]

The problem was trying to use the demuxed .mv3 test file. I repeated the process using the original test .mpg file, and TMPGEnc output a proper file from the .avs script.

But I've gone the wrong way somehow. The output video is black barred on all sides, with what looks like a 680x480 image in the center viewing it in VDub & PowerDVD.

Oops... I neglected to make a new .avs script:rolleyes:

[Boulder]

Post the script so we can see if there's anything wrong with it. You should have bars on top and bottom, that's caused by the 16:9->letterboxed 4:3 conversion.

[TakuSkan]

Okay... I've gone through the process from start a couple more times. I must have something seriously wrong, as I'm getting blank, black output video from TMPGEnc with the .avs scripts.

Here's the process:

* Load 9 second test .mpg clip into DGIndex
* Save the DGIndex project.
* Open project in FitCD.
* Leave FitCD source settings as is with anomorphic set.
* Set output to 720x480 'DVD 720' (I'll try reducing A/R later for Libretto)
* Copy & paste AviSynth info to .avs script file
* Start TMPGEnc wizard.
* Select DVD NTSC VBR (for now)
* Load avs script
- I have to correct 'Non-interlace' to 'Interelace' 'Top field first' here.
* Run TMPGEnc

I repeated this as I wrote, and the output is still blank/black video content with no audio.

Here's the script:

-----------------------------------------------------
# -= AviSynth v2.5.5.0 script by FitCD v1.2.8 =-
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
Mpeg2Source("D:\Videos\Rips\Tests\Test4 org short test 1mpg\Cave test 1 short

test1.d2v")
BicubicResize(688,304,0,0.6,0,0,816,480)
AddBorders(16,88,16,88)
#Trim(0,271).FadeOut(150)
-----------------------------------------------------

[TakuSkan]

And the DGIndex project info for what it's worth:

-------------------------------------------------
DGIndexProjectFile11
1
D:\Videos\Rips\Tests\Cave test 1 short.mpg

Stream_Type=1
MPEG_Type=2
iDCT_Algorithm=6
YUVRGB_Scale=1
Luminance_Filter=0,0
Clipping=0,0,0,0
Aspect_Ratio=16:9
Picture_Size=720x480
Field_Operation=0
Frame_Rate=29970
Location=0,0,0,B7F

900 1 0 2048 0 0 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 229376 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 532480 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 823296 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 1110016 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 1384448 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 1650688 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 1910784 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 2162688 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 2428928 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 2727936 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 3041280 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 3368960 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 3737600 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 4118528 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 4483072 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 4820992 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 5148672 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 5494784 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0
900 1 0 5959680 0 0 92 a2 ff

FINISHED 99.12% FILM
-------------------------------------------------

[Boulder]

But does the avs script open correctly in VDub?

[TakuSkan]

Can you open the file in VirtualDub?
It complained about the location of DGDecode.dll which I corrected in the script and re-ran TMPGEnc successfully this time. But the output video isn't functioning correctly.

If so, what does it show?
I'm not sure what to look for after it loads.

For TMPGEnc you should use ConverttoRGB24() instead of ConverttoYUY2 if that's what is in your script. If there is no Converttoxxx line, add it as the last item and try again.
I see no reference to RGB24 or YUY2 in the avs script. I'll add ConverttoRGB24() at the end and re-run it.

[Boulder]

I'm not sure what to look for after it loads.

It should show you the video as it is.

I see no reference to RGB24 or YUY2 in the avs script. I'll add Converttoxxx at the end and re-run it. No values need be set for xxx??
You need ConverttoRGB24(interlaced=true) as you probably have truly interlaced material. You should use the search for finding information how to treat interlaced stuff, you need some specific processing regarding resizing.

[TakuSkan]

It should show you the video as it is.
Okay... yes... the video displays and plays properly in VDub, sans audio (never figured out if that's possible in VDub).

You need ConverttoRGB24(interlaced=true) as you probably have truly interlaced material.
Is that set in the avs script?

You should use the search for finding information how to treat interlaced stuff, you need some specific processing regarding resizing.
I'll give this a rest for now, and get to that next time the moon rises over yonder east hills... :thanks: for getting me this far Boulder.

[TakuSkan]

I neglected to mention that there's no audio playback on the latest output video files when played in PowerDVD on one system. When played in PowerDVD on another system, I get no video, and only audio! Ah the tangled complexities of digital multimedia.

The 16:9 aspect ratio is perfect now though.

[Boulder]

Okay... yes... the video displays and plays properly in VDub, sans audio (never figured out if that's possible in VDub).

The project file you load only contains the video. The audio is demuxed when creating the project, it's in the directory where you created it. If the video shows ok in VDub, your script is working as it should.

Is that set in the avs script?

Yep, add it as the last item.

[TakuSkan]

The project file you load only contains the video. The audio is demuxed when creating the project, it's in the directory where you created it. If the video shows ok in VDub, your script is working as it should.
Okay, that's why no playback audio with the .avs file loaded into VDUB. But when playing the TMPGEnc output .mpg video file in either VDub or PowerDVD, there's no audio playback there either. This even though GSpot shows it there as MPEG-1 LII 48000Hz 384kbps audio.

Yep, add it as the last item.
TMPGEnc accepted it when added. But the output video is still jumpy in PowerDVD on one of the 2 systems (reboot?)... and no audio.

I think I was wrong above when I said PowerDVD on the other system played audio and no video... unless that was on an overwritten test file.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well it looks as though you've cracked it....

Anyway, here's a sample (http://www.one.seemoredigital.net/Test_Files/MPEG-1+6ChAC3_From_SMD.7z) I created earlier... just for you!


Cheers

[TakuSkan]

Well it looks as though you've cracked it....
Well... video is getting there.. the audio is another question at this point.

Anyway, here's a sample (http://www.one.seemoredigital.net/Test_Files/MPEG-1+6ChAC3_From_SMD.7z) I created earlier... just for you!
Heh... slick... And a much more entertaining segment than the test segment I've been toying with. :p

Something's still odd either with my PowerDVD, or both yours and my transcoded files SMD. I got no audio playback for your file in PowerDVD, so I tried WMP where it played fine. However my creations still don't sound in either. :confused:

[TakuSkan]

Anyway, here's a sample (http://www.one.seemoredigital.net/Test_Files/MPEG-1+6ChAC3_From_SMD.7z) I created earlier... just for you!
Could I ask how you went about transcoding this SMD? Using basically the same process as Boulder has been guiding me through?

[TakuSkan]

Just thought I'd document the final tweaks to this process.

The output file missing audio seemed to be a problem with TMPGEnc not getting enough information from the .avs script to be able to include the muxed .ac3 audio from the source .mpg in the process of transcoding to the new file. I had to use BeSweet to transcode the demuxed .ac3 audio DGIndex created to a .mp2 audio file. And then include that file as the audio source in the final steps of running TMPGEnc's wizard to process the .avs script.

It seems there should be a way around that by tweaking that .avs script. But I've not yet had the time to study a bit more about AviSynth.

The final step in creating a file that the PI 233MHz CPU on my old Toshiba Libretto is able to deal with was to specify VCD output both in FitCD and in TMPGEnc's project wizard. That created an .avs script that produced a 352x240 letterboxed 16:9 video that, though it's a little small, plays in WMP v6.4 perfectly.

I tried tweaking Media Player Classic by disabling MPEG-1 audio and video for both source and transfer filters, and installing ffdshow. It helped a bit, but MPC still had problems playing video smoothly.

I wasn't sure if installing ffdshow helped to enable 16:9 playback in WMP, as previously WMP wasn't properly sizing some of my 16:9 encoded test files where MPC was. But after uninstalling ffdshow, I find WMP is still dealing with 16:9 display correctly.

I wish I could get TMPGEnc to transcode these files now to an infinitely variable aspect ratio so that I could increase the size of the final video a bit. But it seems both TMPGEnc and FitCD balk when typing in a custom apect ratio, complaining that what I'm entering is not valid.

:thanks: again to Boulder for helping me get a handle on this process.

TS

[SeeMoreDigital]

You could try using a tool called "MPEG Multiplexer" (http://81.98.148.105/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/MPEG_Multiplexer_(v1.0).7z) to mux RAW MPEG-1.M1V video streams and .MP2 audio streams into .MPG

In-fact MPEG Multiplexer can also be forced to mux .AC3 audio streams too!


Cheers

[TakuSkan]

Hmmm... That would mean starting all over to figure out how to get the letterboxed 16:9 source video transcoded to a file with say a 400x273 A/R instead of the default in the VCD A/R of 352x240 that TMPGEnc and FitCD are complaining about.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hmmm... That would mean starting all over to figure out how to get the letterboxed 16:9 source video transcoded to a file with say a 400x273 A/R instead of the default in the VCD A/R of 352x240 that TMPGEnc and FitCD are complaining about.Not at all...

You could de-mux and keep your existing MPEG-1 video stream using DGIndex and use MPEG Multiplexer to add either MP2 or AC3 audio streams or both.

That said... the resolution of your MPEG-1 video stream seems a strange size!

[TakuSkan]

You could de-mux and keep your existing MPEG-1 video stream using DGIndex and use MPEG Multiplexer to add either MP2 or AC3 audio streams or both.
I'm missing something there. I have a MPEG-2 ~4.5GB merged DVD VOB movie. I've worked out how to transcode a test .mpg sample from that file to a 352x240 MPEG-1 file that retained the 16:9 letterbox widescreen video with with Boulder's help. How am I going to use the method you suggest to accomplish that?

I can demux the MPEG-2 source video, and end up with an audio only file and a video only file. Are you saying that I can take the demuxed video, and manage to transcode it to a MPEG-1 file retaining the 16:9 video in the 4:3 letterbox all with MPEG Multiplexer and mux the original audio back into the resulting file? That instead of using the .avs script in TMPGEnc to produce the proper video file?

Or are you talking about transcoding twice? Once with the method Boulder laid out. And then again with the process you're talking about? I really don't want to have to do something like that each time I transcode a DVD for playback on my Libretto.

How did you go about making that SW clip SMD?

That said... the resolution of your MPEG-1 video stream seems a strange size!
It was meant to in order to show as radical a change as possible to different custom horizontal & vertical values while retaining the same A/R... I just started at 400H at random, and divided that by 352/240, or 1.467... and came up with 272.72727272... or 273V. Actually, that would look nice on the Libretto if it can deal with playing an image that 'big'.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi TakuSkan,

When you started this thread I was under the (false) impression that you wanted to generate (full standard resolution) 720x480/576 MPEG-1 encodes from 720x480/576 MPEG-2 sources.

However, it's now clear that your intension is to generate 352x240 MPEG-1 encodes!

Surly tools such as Nero Vision Express and TMPGenc can be configured to do as you require?


Cheers