DVD2SVCD: Can't encode without "lines" (D2SRoBa)

[jimboe]

I can't seem to get this encoding done without having "horizontal" lines appearing when there are large deltas, like on "panning" shots, etc. (i.e. a scene that follows two characters walking).

I tried with CCE SP2.50 and now with 2.67.00.23. This latter time my machine locked near the end, but it had already created the 1st two of three mpg files and viewing them shows the same "horizontal" artifacts.

I've attached a snapshot which shows the lines. Following are my D2SRoBa and DVD2SVCD logs.
DVD2SVCD 1.2.3 build 1
D2SRoBa 3.80
CCE SP 2.67.00.23 via EclCCE 1.80
Source NTSC 16x9 DVD

Can anyone advise?
TIA

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.80, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.1.1.0
- 2006-02-11 21:06:51
--------------------------------------------------------
- INI file : H:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\D2SRoBa.ini
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto (max 32)
- Threshold Q : 36
- Sample file size : 1.0% (delete previous: Yes)
- Adjust estimated : 1.4% (accuracy tweak: Yes)
- Sizing pass : Encode (1 pass) if opv pass < -1.5% from target, or Q > 30
Transcode (Requant) if opv pass > 0.0% above target, and Q <= 30
- Cond. filtering : No
- Audio after video : Yes (9% of video, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max - avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Run mode : Normal
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window, or 'Ripping done' message box...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the movie encode window - shutting down
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2006-02-11 21:26:53
- Copying D2SRoBa.ini to project dir H:\WORK\
- Avisynth setup: BicubicResize
- D2S ver. 1.2.3.1, CCE ver. 2.67.0.23
- Setting process priority 2
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:14:50 (242460 frames, 29.97 fps)
- D2S audio select : 192 + 0 kbps
- D2S video calc. : 1407 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 2430
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=664 (664) audio_br=128+0 video_sz=671477477 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1471 (1471) audio_br=128+0 video_sz=1487565315 fill=100% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2215 (2215) audio_br=192+0 video_sz=2239943693 fill=100% cbr=0
- 4 CD: video_br=2530 (2990) audio_br=224+0 video_sz=2558490990 fill=85.8% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Sample max br : 2626 (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Sample enc. Q=36 : 1728 kbps, err=?%, size=1748383444, sample sz=17771576
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Using num CDs : 3
- Target mpv br : 2215 (max 2562) kbps, size=2239943693 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Sample enc. Q=23 : 2050 kbps, err=-7.4%, size=2073240287, sample sz=21073608
- Sample enc. Q=16 : 2276 kbps, err=2.8%, size=2301786962, sample sz=23396688
- Sample enc. Q=18 : 2210 kbps, err=-0.2%, size=2235626208, sample sz=22724192
--------------------------------------------------------
- Determined Q : 18 = Round(18 + (-0.2/1.5)) with 1.4% adjustment.
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2006-02-11 21:31:07
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 18)
- OPV pass result: 97.1% on target, 2151 kbps (2175677724 / 2239943693) Speed: 1.74
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2006-02-11 22:48:28
- Start VBR sizing pass (2215 kbps)
- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target, 2213 kbps (2238612152 / 2239943693) Speed: 1.73
- Adjusted CD size: 799 (fill = 99.9%)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2006-02-12 00:06:28
- Executing: H:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "H:\Work\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "H:\Work\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "H:\Work\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2006-02-12 00:13:52
- Recover DVD2SVCD: Muxing


==================================
DVD2SVCD LOG
WNASPI32.DLL 4.71.2.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/11/2006 9:07:31 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.3 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_0.IFO
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_1.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_2.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_3.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_4.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_5.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_6.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_7.vob
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/11/2006 9:07:34 PM
- Free on drive H: 16185.27 mb
- Internal rip
--------------------------------------------------------
Preparing vobfiles to be ripped:
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_1.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_2.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_3.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_4.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_5.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_6.vob
- I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_7.vob

Ripping: I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_1.vob
Ripping: I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_2.vob
Ripping: I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_3.vob
Ripping: I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_4.vob
Ripping: I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_5.vob
Ripping: I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_6.vob
Ripping: I:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_7.vob
Ripping finished. Speed: 18907

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/11/2006 9:13:57 PM
- DGIndex
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DGIndex INI file:
- h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\dgindex\DGIndex.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DGIndex.
Executing DGIndex. Commandline:
"h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\dgindex\dgindex.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -OM=0 -EXIT -OF=[H:\Work\DGIndex_Project_file] -IF=[H:\WORK\VTS_04_1.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_2.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_3.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_4.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_5.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_6.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_7.vob]
Analyzing DGMPGDec Project file
Force Film NOT activated!
Framerate: 29970
DGIndex processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/11/2006 9:18:34 PM
- Free on drive H: 9130.86 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: H:\Work\Extracted_audio_1.ac3

Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/11/2006 9:23:47 PM
- Free on drive H: 8945.69 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Encoding Audio. Filename: H:\Work\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"H:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\BeSweetLater.bat" -core( -input "H:\Work\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "H:\Work\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "H:\Work\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s )
Audio conversion of H:\Work\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/11/2006 9:23:53 PM
- Free on drive H: 8945.69 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DefaultTitlepicture.bmp
Converting: h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Converting: h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DefaultLastCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/11/2006 9:24:04 PM
- Free on drive H: 8944.56 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1663691176
AudioSectors: 196982240
VideoPAPO: 22720104
ScanOffsetBytes: 290952
SeqAligningBytes: 18491616
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 900.00
PureMPEGStream: 1425206256.00
Seconds: 8098.09
CalcMPEGStream: 1425206256.00
Frames: 242460
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 2
Cut point 795.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 242460
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 2530
Avg. Bitrate: 1407
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (borders added, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("h:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\dgindex\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("H:\Work\DGINDE~1.D2V")
Import("h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\RoBaConditional.avs")
BicubicResize(480,360,0.0,0.6)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)
Import("H:\Work\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)
ConvertToYUY2()
----AVS End----

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/12/2006 12:13:56 AM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.3 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
-
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/12/2006 12:13:56 AM
- Free on drive H: 6484.00 mb
- Restarting from: Muxing and Cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/12/2006 12:14:00 AM
- Free on drive H: 6484.00 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "H:\Work\TitlePicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/12/2006 12:14:03 AM
- Free on drive H: 6483.96 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "H:\Work\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/12/2006 12:14:07 AM
- Free on drive H: 6483.92 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "H:\Work\LastCDPicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/12/2006 12:14:10 AM
- Free on drive H: 6483.88 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 1
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 1 seconds
Cut point: 794 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "H:\Work\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Length of H:\Work\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2741 Seconds
Offset in Seconds: 2742
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 1 seconds
Cut point: 794 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "H:\Work\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"

[setarip_old]

Hi!

Horizontal lines during movement are usually indicative of interlacing...

[Nick]

Yep. Interlaced.
Either choose "Keep Interlaced" in the dropdown box in the Conversion tab (note this is different from "No Deiterlacing" which is the default) or choose a deinterlacer from the other options.

I would try "keep interlaced" to start with and only resort to deinterlacing if you still have a problem with the output.

[manolito]

Note that there is a small bug in the latest version of DVD2SVCD if you select "Keep interlaced" while using QuEnc (or FreeEnc or HC) as your encoder. All these encoders need YV12 input, so D2S automatically appends the line "ConvertToYV12()" at the end of your AVS script.

When the option "Keep interlaced" is checked, this line should change to "ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)", but it doesn't. I do not know how much harm this will do, but to be safe it cannot hurt to add the line "ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)" manually at the end of your script.

Cheers
manolito

[jimboe]

Thanks all for the input.

I will try Keep Interlaced and tell you how it goes.

I am a bit confused though. I had thought that all (most?) commercially produced NTSC DVD movies were progressive, and not interlaced.

Where am I mis-understanding?

[Nick]

You're not misunderstanding anything.
From the DGIndex part of your logfile:
Executing DGIndex.
Executing DGIndex. Commandline:
"h:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\dgindex\dgindex.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -OM=0 -EXIT -OF=[H:\Work\DGIndex_Project_file] -IF=[H:\WORK\VTS_04_1.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_2.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_3.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_4.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_5.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_6.vob,H:\WORK\VTS_04_7.vob]
Analyzing DGMPGDec Project file
Force Film NOT activated!
Framerate: 29970
DGIndex processing done.

Cinematic film is shot at 24fps. Normally this is slowed down to 23.976 progressive and 3:2 pulldown flags set. NTSC TV sets show video at 29.97fps (frames per second) and each frame consists of 2 fields. What pulldown does is take the video in groups of 4 frames. From this set of 8 fields, the player generates 5 frames to send to the TV.

Example:
Let's call the frames A,B,C and D. Each has 2 fields A1,A2 B1,B2 etc

No pulldown:
These are displayed as
A1,A2 - B1,B2 - C1,C2 - D1,D2

But with the pulldown flag set they are displayed as
A1,A2 - B1,B2 - B1,C2 - C1,C2 - D1,D2
As you see, an extra frame is generated from duplicate fields. Since 23.976 is four fifths od 29.97, the disc contains 23.976 progressive but the output from the player to the TV is 29.97 interlaced.

So when the studio put a movie onto DVD for NTSC they can either store the video as 23.976 progressive and let the player generate the extra frames by setting the pulldown flags, or they can create the extra frames at source and store the video as 29.97 interlaced.

The first way is more sensible, since as you are actually storing less frames on the disc, you can get higher bitrate.

If this disc is from a movie, maybe an inverse telecine would work. Perhaps rip a chapter, choose IVTC in the DGIndex tab and test it. This picks up the duplicate fields and returns it to 23.976fps. As I am in PAL territory, I have no experience of doing this, so if I'm talking rubbish and it doesn't work don't blame me :)

[jimboe]

Thanks for the concise explanation Nick.

Setting IVTC worked as you thought it would.

When I want to use IVTC and D2SRoBa, I will assume that I open D2S and make the appropriate settings first, then close D2S, and start D2SRoBa to kick off the entire procedure.

EDIT: Allow me to ask a couple of other Q's as well..

If the NTSC Field Operation (Force film) is set to "Automatic" (which it always has been), shouldn't D2S be already choosing IVTC when it concludes that the source is 29.97 Interlaced?

Further, in the Conversion tab, the Deinterlace dropdown, if I select "Smart Deinterlace", or "Blendfields", or "Keep Interlaced", does this affect the NTSC Field Operation (Force film) section of the DGIndex tab?

In other words, would selecting one of the Deinterlacing modes I mentioned above, cause IVTC to be selected in the NTSC Field Operation (Force film) section? Because isn't IVTC and Deinterlacing the same procedure?

D2S general Q. The "Matrix" tab is empty, or completely ghosted. Is that supposed to be like that? (use current encoder default matrix is checked)

Am I missing something wrt to that?

Lastly, in the encoder section, advanced settings, am I supposed to be using a "CCE template" of some kind? I can recall seeing some users referring to loading templates they'd shared with each other when encoding.

Thanks again.

[Nick]

IVTC and deinterlacing are not the same thing.
What we are discussing here is telecine'd film footage - ie footage shot at 24fps on cinematic film and converted to 29.97fps interlaced video using the process outlined above.

However, not all interlaced 29.97fps video is like this - indeed most of it isn't. Anything NOT shot on cinematic film (eg filmed using TV/video cameras for NTSC) is actually shot at the higher framerate. In these circumstances, IVTC is not appropriate, of course as the B1,C2 frame in the above desription does not exist.

Deinterlacing has no effect on framerate, it just converts from interlaced to progressive. However, whichever deinterlacing option you choose, it will degrade the quality of the video. One reason you might need to deinterlace is if you are changing the vertical resolution as cannot easily resize interlaced video. But unless you have a special requirement making interlaced video inappropriate, don't bother.

With regards to templates, there's a sticky on that at the top of the forum.

[jimboe]

OK got it.

Although using either IVTC or Smart deinterlacing worked to remove the lines, based on your comments it's clear that I should process this dvd using IVTC, since I would loose quality if I select a deinterlacing method.

As I said above however, I still don't understand why D2S doesn't select IVTC automatically when it concludes that the source is 29.97 Interlaced. That is the conclusion I arrive at from the bubble help in that section on D2S.

Also upon looking at a couple of other NTSC DVD movies I have, I can see that they're stored on the discs as 23.976 progressive. So now I can see that the movie which is the subject of this topic was telecined first and stored on disc at 29.97. For what reason that was done I done quite understand as there appears to be no benefit, but that is apparently so.

[Nick]

As I said, not all 29.97fps interlaced footage is made from 24fps film. All NTSC material is viewed at 29.97fps and stuff like TV shows are shot at this framerate. IVTCing this would simply destroy frames!

As for why your particular DVD has been telecined and stored at 29.97 I don't know. There is no benefit I can see to doing this.