NTSC videos appear as FILM? (a.k.a what is wrong with my computer?)

[Chainmax]

A few weeks ago, I downloaded a vob sample from an Avisynth Usage thread. Seeing as how it seemed progressive and have a FILM framerate in VDubMod, I said that an unprocessed sample was better. Everyone on the thread replied that the sample was indeed unprocessed and that I probably had Force FILM enabled on DGIndex, but that is not the case as I always use IVTC.

Recently, while trying to make a DVD, both WMP6.4's statistics window and VDubMod report both the pulldown and the original video as 23.976fps, only zoomplayer's Player Information says Listed FPS = 29.97, but it also says Actual FPS=23.976. What's going on?

[MaximRecoil]

A few weeks ago, I downloaded a vob sample from an Avisynth Usage thread. Seeing as how it seemed progressive and have a FILM framerate in VDubMod, I said that an unprocessed sample was better.Did you load the VOB directly into VDubMod? If so, VDubMod always does that. I guess when it parses the VOB, it IVTC's at the same time, because no matter what NTSC VOB you load directly into VDubMod, it will always be a progressive/film framerate (23.976 FPS). If you want the whole deal, including the interlaced frames, load it directly into VDub-MPEG2. It will show an NTSC video framerate (29.97 FPS) and you will clearly see the interlaced frames as you scroll through it with the slider bar.
Everyone on the thread replied that the sample was indeed unprocessed and that I probably had Force FILM enabled on DGIndex, but that is not the case as I always use IVTC.I'm not sure what you mean by that because DGIndex's "force film" function is IVTC (inverse telecine / 3:2 pulldown removal / the process of removing the 2 interlaced frames from the 3 progressive frames)

There is nothing wrong with your computer, it is just the way that different applications process things. Just the fact that it is a valid NTSC VOB means that it has to be 29.97 FPS in reality; because if it were not, then its MPEG2 stream would not be DVD-compliant.

[Chainmax]

I think I loaded that vob directly into VDubMod. About Force FILM, yeah, it does achieve an inverse telecine, but the general concensus here is that Force FILM and using a dedicated IVTC plugin (Decomb, TIVTC, etc) is not really the same thing.


Also, there is the current problem I'm having with both the IVTCed source m2v and its pulldowned version appearing in both WMP6.4's statistics window and VDubMod as 23.976fps, with only ZoomPlayer's Player Information saying Listed FPS = 29.97/Actual FPS=23.976. I'm going to try doing pulldown on the IVTCed source m2v, using DGIndex to create a d2v and loading it in VDubMod through MPEG2Source. This second problem has nothing to do with the vob sample I mention in the first problem.

[MaximRecoil]

I think I loaded that vob directly into VDubMod. About Force FILM, yeah, it does achieve an inverse telecine, but the general concensus here is that Force FILM and using a dedicated IVTC plugin (Decomb, TIVTC, etc) is not really the same thing.


Also, there is the current problem I'm having with both the IVTCed source m2v and its pulldowned version appearing in both WMP6.4's statistics window and VDubMod as 23.976fps, with only ZoomPlayer's Player Information saying Listed FPS = 29.97/Actual FPS=23.976. I'm going to try doing pulldown on the IVTCed source m2v, using DGIndex to create a d2v and loading it in VDubMod through MPEG2Source. This second problem has nothing to do with the vob sample I mention in the first problem.You've lost me. I'm not sure what your question is. I think you'll find that the behavior you are seeing with this NTSC VOB is the same behavior that you'd see with any NTSC VOB. If you want to see the VOB in its full 29.97 FPS state, open it in DGIndex without enabling Force Film, or open it directly in VirtualDub-MPEG2 (not VirtualDubMod).

I realize that doesn't answer your second problem, but I don't understand what you are trying to say that your second problem is. You mention an IVTC'd m2v file; how can that be? An m2v file is an MPEG2 video stream, and if it has been IVTC'd, how can it still be MPEG2 compliant?

[Doom9]

Recently, while trying to make a DVD, both WMP6.4's statistics window and VDubMod report both the pulldown and the original video as 23.976fps,Well, if your m2v is 23.976 with pulldown flags, then your filters probably report just that. But if your authoring program doesn't bitch.. what's the problem? And if it bitches, you know you forgot to add the pulldown flags. I'm sure if you have a native 29.97 interlaced VOB source, the fps report in a media player will be accurate.

[Chainmax]

MaximRecoil: I understood your explanation about the first problem. Since I don't have that sample vob anymore I can't verify your statements, but they seem logical. About the second problem, I am authoring a new DVD and I have filtered the source so I had to reencode, hence the 23.976fps m2v.

Doom9: I'm pretty sure that the few times I did this with other sources, the DGPulldowned file was reported as 29.97 in WMP 6.4 and VDubMod. I'll see if DVDLab complains or not then, should've done that in the first place :o.

[Chainmax]

By the way, what's a tool would you recommend me to merge two DVD specs compliant MPGs (TMPG and binary concatenation need not apply)?

[MaximRecoil]

By the way, what's a tool would you recommend me to merge two DVD specs compliant MPGs (TMPG and binary concatenation need not apply)?
I've used both VideoRedo and TMPGEnc MPEG Editor (http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tme.html) (totally different program than plain TMPGEnc, though from the same company of course) for stuff like that. TMPGEnc MPEG Editor is very nice and I preferred it to VideoRedo. With either you can do frame accurate edits or joins, without having to re-encode the whole thing (though if you cut or join anywhere but an I-frame it will have to re-encode a few frames before and after the edit). TMPGEnc MPEG Editor has the better MPEG encoder of the two, and more/better features and U/I IMO.

[Chainmax]

Well, if I'm just going to join two MPGs then the encoder doesn't make too much importance. I'll see if I can try either of them, thanks for the suggestion.

[MaximRecoil]

Well, if I'm just going to join two MPGs then the encoder doesn't make too much importance. I'll see if I can try either of them, thanks for the suggestion.
That's true, but if you decide to do anything else with them, like edit somewhere other than an I-frame or whatever, the better encoder would come in handy. Either way, I like the features and layout of of TMPGEnc MPEG Editor better than VideoRedo, but either one should get the job done fine. There are probably others out there too such as Womble (I think I tried it once but it couldn't do non I-frame cuts so I didn't bother with it any further than that).

DVD2one can do seamless joins of multiple DVD titles, though I don't think it will touch a plain MPEG2. If your goal is to eventually have a single DVD title from your two MPEG2 files, you could always make two separate titles in your authoring software and then seamlessly join them into 1 title in DVD2one too. DVD2one is a tiny, simple program that is self contained, and works excellently, but I don't think it is free, though it might have a free trial.

IFOEdit can do the same type of seamless join of multiple DVD titles, but it is a cumbersome procedure...free though.

[Chainmax]

As per a suggestion on another thread, I demuxed theTMPG merge. It also has 159418 frames but it too also displays the correct length, so I won't give much thought to that.
About the DGPulldown issue (I am using DGPulldown v1.0.6b3, which appears as b2 when executed), I found that it didn't work if I used the defaults. If I instead chose Custom mode and set the start and end fps manually it worked.

[Guest]

About the DGPulldown issue (I am using DGPulldown v1.0.6b3, which appears as b2 when executed), I found that it didn't work if I used the defaults. If I instead chose Custom mode and set the start and end fps manually it worked. Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy in beta numbering.

Are you saying that one of the preset conversions isn't working while if you
set it with Custom it does work? If so, please tell me which preset conversion wasn't working and how you know that. Thank you.

[Chainmax]

You're welcome, I'm happy to be of assistance :).
And yes, if using DGPulldown without changing anything (so, 23.976-->29.97 is selected, along with "Set timecodes" and "Set drop frames"), the file was shown to be pulldowned to 23.976fps and the result exhibited the problem I described. After chosing "custom" and manually entering 23.976 and 29.97 as start and end framerates respectively, the file was shown as being pulldowned at 29.97 and the file was reported in WMP6.4 correctly (listed=29.97, actual 23.976).

[Guest]

Yeah, that appears to be a bug introduced with the CLI in 1.06b3. Can you please verify that it is OK with 1.05? Thanks.

[Chainmax]

v1.05 works great. VDubMod reports the file as 23.976 (as it should, right?) and WMP shows it as listed=29.97/actual=23.976.

[Guest]

OK, thanks. I'll fix it tonight.

[Guest]

The fixed version is available here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=106368

[Chainmax]

Great, thanks for fixing it :).