DivX ;-) 3.11 Alpha + Nandub 1.0rc2

[MaximRecoil]

Is there a good guide anywhere for this old method of encoding? Particularly a guide that goes through each of the SBC options and gives recommendations on how they should be set? Or even better still, is there anyone who used to do a lot of encoding this way and still remembers some good settings? I read somewhere that Doom9 himself taught everyone how to use Nandub originally, is that true?

Anyway, these are the 6 screens that I assume matter:

http://maxim.skyphix.com/sbc/sbc1.png

http://maxim.skyphix.com/sbc/sbc2.png

http://maxim.skyphix.com/sbc/sbc3.png

http://maxim.skyphix.com/sbc/sbc4.png

http://maxim.skyphix.com/sbc/sbc5.png

http://maxim.skyphix.com/sbc/sbc6.png

I did find an old guide online that told what each of those settings were, but no recommendations of how to set them. He did have a preconfigured settings file but unfortunately, the link to it was dead, long dead probably.

So if anyone has any recommendations for each of those screens it would be good. I did a trial run with it last night on a DVD that I have owned for quite sometime and the results were pretty good with all default settings other than the bitrate that got put in automatically on the first SBC settings screen after I used the built in calculator.

There are a few things I have been wondering about regarding DivX 3.11 as well. Was there a DivX 3.10? or a DivX 3.12? The only version of DivX 3 I have ever heard of is 3.11, and no DivX 0.x, 1.x or 2.x either. Where did the number 3.11 come from? Was it random?

Now on that first screen you have the option of using DivX 3.11 or Microsoft MPEG4v2. If I remember right, DivX 3.11 was a hacked version of MPEG4v2. What is actually different? What advantage is there to using DivX 3.11 over MPEG4v2 in Nandub, if any?

[celtic_druid]

DivX3 was MS MPEG4 V3.

One question; Why encode with DivX3?

[MaximRecoil]

DivX3 was MS MPEG4 V3.

One question; Why encode with DivX3?
Because I missed out on it when everyone was doing it I guess, so for me it is something new. Plus there is just something inherently cool about DivX ;-) 3.11 Alpha and Nandub IMO. I like the way Nandub was specifically made (modified) for DivX 3.11, and all of the controls and settings (that I am still lost with at the moment). I like how it was once considered to be the best way to do things (unlike the policies of this forum, I do believe that "the best" can be established objectively, at least given some parameters). Now no one can/will say what's best, at least not here. There is XviD, the H.264 stuff, DivX, WMV...a bunch of constantly changing murky water with nothing ever being established. If I know DivX 3.11 + Nandub, it is something I can fall back on, that is tried and true, when I tire of messing around with every new thing that comes down the pike. DivX 3.11 + Nandub is the closest thing to an actual standard that has ever existed for encoding DVD's to an AVI container.

Go back and look at some of your old DivX 3.11 encodes. They don't look all that different than what you can do today with the latest and the greatest, and in some cases, they look better. I still think DivX 3.11 and early versions of XviD did a great job of preserving the "film" look, i.e. the color and the grain, moreso than a lot of the codecs floating around today IMO.

Anyway, hopefully someone can remember some good settings and tips and whatnot for this old method.

[Koepi]

On my homepage i kept a historical link for nandub. If you follow it you'll be directed to: http://mitglied.lycos.de/koepi/

Where you can find "nandub options explained". It'll help you with that good 'ole tool (which should RIP soon).

Cheers
Koepi

[MaximRecoil]

On my homepage i kept a historical link for nandub. If you follow it you'll be directed to: http://mitglied.lycos.de/koepi/

Where you can find "nandub options explained". It'll help you with that good 'ole tool (which should RIP soon).

Cheers
Koepi
That is awesome, exactly what I was looking for, thanks. You gave explanations of each option along with which settings you prefer, which is perfect.

Would you happen to know (or anyone else) how I can just install the DivX 3.11 codec without getting the DivX audio and the Radium MP3 codec installed at the same time? I have the installer from this site's download section, and it extracts these files first to a folder in Program Files:

http://maxim.skyphix.com/divx.png

If I run the DivX.inf file or the Register_DivX.exe file, it installs everything. Can I just copy the files I want into System32 and register them (regsvr32)? If so, which files there are the ones that are for DivX video encoding/decoding, and which ones are the audio codecs? I know that the L3codeca.acm file is the hacked Fraunhofer "Radium" MP3 codec, but I don't know which is the "DivX audio" codec.

Edit:
DivX3 was MS MPEG4 V3
You should correct this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DivX) Wikipedia article which states:
DivX ;-) 3.11 Alpha and earlier versions generally refer to a hacked version of the Microsoft MPEG-4 Version 2 video codec, extracted around 1998 by French hacker Jerome Rota (also known as Gej).
I don't know anything about editing Wikipedia articles, nor do I know enough about it to fix it myself.

[Lemonzest]

when ever i fancied doing a Divx 3 encode nandub style i just used FFDShows's Divx3 2pass, much better quality and hits the file size most of the time :)

edit: would be best to use a more upto date divx3 http://www.geocities.com/xkodi/

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=32453&highlight=xkodi

[xyloy]

I do believe that "the best" can be established objectively, at least given some parameters). Now no one can/will say what's best, at least not here. There is XviD, the H.264 stuff, DivX, WMV...a bunch of constantly changing murky water with nothing ever being established. If I know DivX 3.11 + Nandub, it is something I can fall back on, that is tried and true, when I tire of messing around with every new thing that comes down the pike. DivX 3.11 + Nandub is the closest thing to an actual standard that has ever existed for encoding DVD's to an AVI container.
Where did you get such ideas ? DivX 3 is crap, and should be considered as the "murky water with nothing ever being established"!
DivX3 is by far the codec wich doesn't respect MPEG-4 ASP standard. Because it's alpha.

You really should consider using XviD v1.0.3 or v1.1.0 finale. A lot easier to use, gives the best quality of all MPEG-4 ASP codecs IMHO(and according to Doom9's codecs comparisons, don't forget that).

Believe me, there is no need at all to use DivX3. It's is a lot of headache, and it's quality is the worst... Besides, it's not always very well played by standalone DivX players(whereas XviD v1.1.0 finale has certified profiles, such as Home Theatre PAL).

[MaximRecoil]

Where did you get such ideas ? DivX 3 is crap, and should be considered as the "murky water with nothing ever being established"!I like the look of DivX 3.11a encoded files, I always have. If your goal is to convince me that I don't like the look of DivX 3.11a encoded files, well I can assure you, that's going to be a tough row to hoe, lol.
DivX3 is by far the codec wich doesn't respect MPEG-4 ASP standard. Because it's alpha.How is that relevant to how the file looks?
You really should consider using XviD v1.0.3 or v1.1.0 finale.I have used them both, plenty. I actually prefer the look of Koepi's old 04102002 build, but that is neither here nor there.
A lot easier to use, gives the best quality of all MPEG-4 ASP codecs IMHO(and according to Doom9's codecs comparisons, don't forget that).I am not concerned about ease of use, and I'm all set with making "codec comparisons" all on my own. You are acting as though you actually have a stake in what codec I use, i.e. as though the codec I use will somehow affect you personally. Why is that?
Believe me, there is no need at all to use DivX3.Who said anything about "need"?
and it's quality is the worstLike I said, if you are trying to convince me that I don't like what I like; well...good luck.
Besides, it's not always very well played by standalone DivX players(whereas XviD v1.1.0 finale has certified profiles, such as Home Theatre PAL).DivX 3.11 plays fine in my Philips DVP642.

[xyloy]

If you are so blind, I can't help you.:D

Just don't say you haven't been warned about Div3's poor performances. ;)

Can I at least give you my favorite settings for XviD v1.1 ? :)
Here they are anyway, for a Bits/(Pixels*Frames) near 0.300 :
Profile: Home Theatre PAL - Two pass encoding
No Adaptive Quantization
No Interlaced Encoding
B-VOPs activated (Max B-VOPs: 1, Quantizer Ratio: 1.50, Quantizer offset: 1.00, No Packed Bitstream)
Zone Options: Chroma Optimizer activated
Quality Preset: user defined
Motion Search Precision: 6 - Ultra High
VHQ Mode: 4 - Wide Search
VHQ Mode for B-frames too
Use Chroma Motion
Max. I-frame Interval: (=FPS*10)
Trellis Quantization
(Max-Min I/P/B Quantizers: 1-31 / 1-31 / 1-31)

When I do not want to read it on a standalone DivX Player, I use also Global Motion Compensation and Max B-VOPs: 2.

My point is that every movie deserves superior quality. That's all. ;)

[MaximRecoil]

If you are so blind, I can't help you.Your eyes are no more talented than anyone else's, I can assure you.

The biggest visual offender for me is macroblocks. I always do 2 CD (1400 MB) encodes, so that isn't really a problem with any decent codec. That leaves things like texture, details and colors. This part tends to be quite subjective. Some people loved the overly smooth look of DivX 5 for example, while I hated it. The first XviD encode I saw, back around 2002, I liked it immediately. It retained film grain a lot better than the then current DivX 5 and the colors looked better, brighter to me (DivX 5 tended to be smooth and somewhat dark). From that point on I used only XviD but it seems that as time went on, the newer versions got away from the look I prefer. On the other hand, good DivX 3.11 encodes, look as good to me as those early XviD encodes. Now I've seen examples of the best of what is out there today, and I've used the best of what is out there today, and maybe on paper things have come a long way, but I'm not seeing it.
Just don't say you haven't been warned about Div3's poor performances.I did a 1400 MB encode with it in Nandub at default settings the other night. I was pleased with the results. I know that Nandub + DivX 3.11 allows for a lot of tweaking, so I came here looking for some suggestions. Off-topic comments like yours which offer no suggestions, but rather criticism of the codec, were completely expected. I'm no stranger to forums, lol.
Can I at least give you my favorite settings for XviD v1.1 ?Not a problem. I haven't sworn off the use of any codec, and I'm always interested in other peoples' preferred settings. I will take note of yours.

[xyloy]

In fact, I don't use XviD anymore but rather x264. I used XviD some time ago, but since I managed to encode as fast as XviD and get DVD quality...
Usually, I don't care about time, but 3 days of encoding for 45 minutes, when you have to do 64*45 minutes, is just unbearable.
Just like said Sagitaire, the slowest mode(best quality) of MPEG-4 ASP gives worse quality than the fastest mode of H.264/AVC.

But that's even more off-topic since you want to play it on a standalone DivX player(sorry! ^^U). Just notice that x264 is a great encoder, and standalone Main Profile AVC players are already available(altought they must be quite expensive. And as for ASP, I think it will take more time to have decent standalone AVC players. Personally I hope High Profile support will become reality, someday... Well, I know, but everyone can dream ^_^).

[Doom9]

This is the official, Nando approved Nandub guide: http://www.doom9.org/nandub.htm Accept no substitute no matter how old it is..
I read somewhere that Doom9 himself taught everyone how to use Nandub originally, is that true?well.. it was nando really.. he helped me with the guide.. I was as clueless as everybody else initially when I started the beta test. But most other guides just rechewed the guide mentioned above (and the authors conveniently forget to mention where they got their info from).

[MaximRecoil]

This is the official, Nando approved Nandub guide: http://www.doom9.org/nandub.htm Accept no substitute no matter how old it is..
well.. it was nando really.. he helped me with the guide.. I was as clueless as everybody else initially when I started the beta test. But most other guides just rechewed the guide mentioned above (and the authors conveniently forget to mention where they got their info from).
Now there is the meat of the matter right there. I've got some reading to do, thanks for the link.

[Chainmax]

A long time ago, during my NanDub SBC days I made a DVD ripping guide collecting info from Nicky Page's guides, Koepi's NanDub guide and (maybe, can't recall) info from here. It includes recommended settings, I can PM them to you if you want. About Mpeg4v2 Vs DivX, DivX is a hacked version of Mpeg4v3. The general concensus back in the day was that Mpeg4v2 kept more detail, so I would suggest you to use Mpeg4v2.

Can Nandub accept AVS input? That would be the biggest limiting factor for me.


P.S: another advantage of Mpeg4v2 is that it's included natively in every windows install (if I'm not mistaken), so you don't need to install any video codecs. I'm not sure how compatible it is with DivX standalones though.

[MaximRecoil]

It includes recommended settings, I can PM them to youm if you want.Sure, that would be great.
Can Nandub accept AVS input? That would be the biggest limiting factor for me.Yes it can. The encode I did the other night was done from an AVS script (MPEG2Source loading a .d2v file through DGDecode.dll). All the old guides I have read are done with a .d2v turned into a dummy AVI file with VFAPI. I'm not sure why, other than maybe MPEG2Source in AviSynth, and/or MPEG2DEC3.dll (now DGDecode.dll) didn't exist then? Some people were frame serving from FlaskMPEG to an AVS script and doing it that way too, which I know nothing about; I didn't even know you could frame serve through Flask. I can only guess, that since everyone was either using a dummy AVI or frame serving through Flask, that MPEG2DEC3.dll (DGDecode.dll) wasn't around yet (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).
P.S: another advantage of Mpeg4v2 is that it's included natively in every windows install (if I'm not mistaken), so you don't need to install any video codecs. I'm not sure how compatible it is with DivX standalones though.Yeah, that's what I've been reading in the guides. I have no idea if an MPEG4v2 encoded AVI would play in my standalone or not. The Doom9 guide that Doom9 linked to above and the one from Koepi says that native Windows compatibility and legality were really the only advantages to MPEG4v2 over DivX 3.11a.

[CruNcher]

http://rapidshare.de/files/12890300/smart.bitrate.control.intro-vcdvault.avi.html
something oldshool, enjoy :)
wherever you are now Nando you will never be forgotten :D

[MaximRecoil]

http://rapidshare.de/files/12890300/smart.bitrate.control.intro-vcdvault.avi.html
something oldshool, enjoy :)
wherever you are now Nando you will never be forgotten :D
That is awesome. Thanks for posting it. And that was done with DivX 3.11a + Nandub @ an average of 1066 kbps bitrate, which isn't even particularly high, more in the average range (lots of motion too). I don't know how anyone could watch that clip and call DivX 3.11a "crap" or "and it's quality is the worst".

Who encoded that anyway? And, whatever happened to Nando?

[Sagittaire]

DivX 3.11, DivX3 SBC, DivX 3.2, DivX Nandub ... are the same standard : MicroSoft MPEG4 version 3.

DivX 3 SBC with Nandub is simply a very old ripp method. At this time the best MPEG4v3 encoder is Libavcodec and by far (multipass, RDO ...)

[Chainmax]

MaximRecoil: I'll send it to you in a couple of days, I have to translate it to english first.

[MaximRecoil]

MaximRecoil: I'll send it to you in a couple of days, I have to translate it to english first.
Thanks, but only if it is not too much of a bother.

[Chainmax]

It's no problem at all. It's actually funny looking at it and thinking how much knowledge I gained since then (I didn't discoved Avisynth and Doom9 until much later). Besides, it's a great opportunity to brush up on my translation skills :).

[Chainmax]

Translation complete. You can download it from [link deleted].

[MaximRecoil]

That's a nice easy to follow guide. So between this, Koepi's guide and Doom9's, I have plenty to go on. Thanks for translating and posting it.

[Lemonzest]

/me screams at rapidshare. could you host it else where please?

[buzzqw]

if ok i will host it

www.64k.it/andres/Recommended_NanDub__SBC_settings.doc

BHH

[Lemonzest]

thanks

[Chainmax]

That's a nice easy to follow guide. So between this, Koepi's guide and Doom9's, I have plenty to go on. Thanks for translating and posting it.

No way, thank you for reading it :). I give due credits for it to Koepi and Doom9, since my guide is pretty much a merge of theirs.



Since buzzqw is hosting it now (thanks :)), I'll delete the rapidshare upload.


P.S: the original version had 1 CD and 2+ CDs advices, I changed those to <0.25b/pf and >=0.25b/pf advices.