recommend lossless capture card? EVERYONE PLEASE VOTE [Archive]

BilboFett

4th February 2006, 08:05

This is what I need:

S-video in
composite in
audio in (stereo mic or rca)
Lossless avi capture
card keeps video/audio in sync and doesn't drop frames
720x480 at 29.97 24-bit minimum (please no crappy cards that can only capture video in 16-bit colorspace)
card supports 16x9 pixel aspect ratio
44/16/stereo

I do not need:
hardware mpeg2
DV
BNC
firewire
component

*Note: I was using the Winnov Videum and its a great card. Never dropped frames. Always kept video and audio in sync. However, it can only go up to 640x480 and only supports square pixel aspect ratio (of course). If I try to force it to capture at 720x480, it induces vertical ripple lines into the frame. If I capture at 640x480 and then LATER re-encode that avi file to 720x480 (thereby changing the pixel aspect ratio,) it gets those same lines.

I want to capture from Laserdisc, VCR, etc. in full 720x480 mode, 29.97 fps, 44 khz 16-bit stereo so I can remaster and burn to DVD.

Please don't recommend Pinnacle because that card is notorious for dropping frames and/or having the audio and video come unsynced overtime. I recorded with the Winnov for 2+ hours straight and it dropped 4 frames total.

I'd like to spend $200 or under. What are your best recommendations?

I thank you for your time, patience, and energy in reading this. Thanks!

4th February 2006, 09:08

AFAIK there are no low cost straight avi capture cards that have combined audio and video capture built in.

However, given your ultimate objective of converting material to DVD, a lot of low cost cards that just do the video, coupled with VirtualDub to do the audio synchronisisation whilst capturing will acheive your end aim very well.

A few points to mull over

1. Your sources (VCR and Laserdisc players ) aren't very high quality devices and capturing at 640 instead of 720 is already exceeding this. But I agree it can be easier to capture at the final resolution - saves resizing :-)

2. Don't worry about pixel ratio - really just don't - it all comes out right in the end. I used to capture my VHS's at 352x576 (in PAL Land) and save them to DVD - since I captured the whole width of the picture and my DVD player outputted the whole width of the picture - all was fine :-)

3. Don't worry about the odd dropped/inserted frame - at 30fps who can tell :-)

regards

Simon
BTW Resizing shouldn't be creating the same lines as you say you get if you try to capture at 720 - try another resizing program :-)

BilboFett

4th February 2006, 09:59

Simon, thanks for the help. I thought ATI all-in-wonder cards were under $200and could somewhat do what I am looking for?

I am archiving extremely rare, hard-to-find, laserdiscs that will never be on DVD. I don't want to lose any quality and drop any frames. I'm a purist. I don't like compromise. If I want to get lower quality, I should leave the laserdiscs alone or just watch the movies on VHS. I am also hoping to make the DVDs as gifts for fans of the movies as well. I will be cleaning up the audio and touching up the picture. This is a big project for me and I'm very meticulous and involved. As you can see :)

On resizing- I'm making anamorphic DVDs that *must* have an anamorphic aspect ratio DURING capture or they won't be right when I make the DVDs. So I have to capture 16x9 720x480 no matter what. The original laserdiscs are in widescreen.

CWR03

5th February 2006, 09:21

Rather than an expensive all-in-wonder, you can get one of several tuner/capture ATI cards for between $50 and $100 US. An "under $200 all-in-wonder" will have the same video ability as a $75-125 video card, which isn't good.

BilboFett

6th February 2006, 05:28

Hey guys, I did the research and chose an ATI Wonder Elite with the new Theater 500 chip. 12-bit video input DAC, 3D comb filter, just cool. It has everything I need, and then some. I spent $119 on it. Thanks for the help guys. Now if I can just get some documentation on all the device settings for virtualdub...

ron spencer

14th February 2006, 19:45

use canopus advc100..perfect with locked audio

communist

14th February 2006, 20:40

This is what I need:
720x480 at 29.97 24-bit minimum (please no crappy cards that can only capture video in 16-bit colorspace)
card supports 16x9 pixel aspect ratio
44/16/stereo
Any bt878 (NTSC) will do that with the btwincap driver.
There is no 16/24 bit colorspace - you're capturing into YUY2 anyway (4:2:2). Also you're digitizing from analog sources - where there is no anamorphic source signal there afaik - even if there was you would have to make your player (source device) output an unmodified picture in order to capture it properly, in other words this is not something your card has to support.
Also sound is recorded with your soundcard and any decent setup with proper drivers and recommended cap application will give you few to none dropped frames (bad sources will always cause drop frames).

/EDIT just read that you already made a purchase :|

setarip_old

15th February 2006, 22:40

Hi!Now if I can just get some documentation on all the device settings for virtualdub...If you're referring to understanding the capture settings within VirtualDub, the standard procedure would be - in VirtualDub, click on "Help" and select "Capture"...

Seraphic-

20th June 2006, 00:58

BilboFett

20th June 2006, 06:34

Hi BilboFett,

How is the picture on a ATI Wonder Elite? Is it as clean and crisp as the videum 1000 Plus at 640x480, using S-Video, and "use both video fields for high resolution images" turned on?

Thanks

night and day difference dude. No comparison. The picture on the ATI Tv Wonder Elite with the Theater 550 chip blows it totally away. Its the same video DAC used in the higher-end Sony television sets. No, I don't work for ATI... I am just really pleased. The picture quality when I used the Videum... just seemed good, nice, I guess... until I captured the same exact scene using the ATI... WOA!! Its almost as if theres many, many, and I mean, MANY more lines of resolution now. The picture before was blurry, a little out of focus, and I never knew until I got the ATI. The ATI, when capturing from laserdisc, is getting a clean, crisp, sharp picture that to me is approaching DVD quality. I noticed more details, the color is better, hot spots aren't as hot, there's more wrinkles in the actors faces (fine detail)... I could go on and on. If you're thinking about getting one, do it.

Seraphic-

20th June 2006, 17:14

BilboFett

21st June 2006, 02:01

Hi BilboFett,

Thanks for the reply, sounds interesting. Are you using S-Video to capture? Does it have a lossless/uncompressed capture codec? What is the max capture resolution? And does it have an audio input? Last, are the install drivers separate from the capture software?

Thank you

Yes, I am using S-Video. It does default 720x480 uncompressed/lossless YUV video capture. I think you can tweak it go lower than 720x480. Max res is 720x480. This has the famous ATI purple break-out box that has all the connections you need on it. Yes, it has audio in, with a built in sync to make sure audio always matches video. The drivers are not separate from the capture software (its a single install I believe), but just about any other capture program, including virtualdub, will see the card, use the card, and let you capture without having to use the ATI capture utility. I love the card dude, I really do. The video quality is fantastic. BTW, some of its video noise reduction filters were designed by the MSU people.. if you've ever used their plugins.

Seraphic-

21st June 2006, 02:59

Any issues with dropped frames?

BilboFett

21st June 2006, 03:17

Any issues with dropped frames?

I'm running an old (2002) HP pavilion XP Pro SP2 with 768 megs of ram, 1.7 Ghz Athlon, 7200 rpm HDD, and out of say, a 2 hour movie, 4 dropped frames (all next to each other), and I think thats more Virtualdub than anything, and its always the black portion before the movie starts.

For ANALOG (not DV!) capture, its the way to go man.

Seraphic-

21st June 2006, 03:20

I plan to capture at 720x480. But isn't the max capture size 1024x768?

BilboFett

21st June 2006, 03:40

I plan to capture at 720x480. But isn't the max capture size 1024x768?

no, not unless they just upgraded it. Its not a High Definition (HD) card... its for capturing from television broadcasts, VCRs, Laserdiscs.. etc.,

Surf

23rd June 2006, 21:00

At the moment I'm drooling over the soon to be released Theatre 650 chip! Preliminary review @Anandtech's very good!

Planning to build an HTPC around it.

Seraphic-

24th June 2006, 17:22

Yeah, I might wait for the 650 too. However, it has a onboard DRM engine. (Digital Rights Management = BAD)

http://www.ati.com/products/theater650pro/demo.html

Chainmax

24th June 2006, 18:18

How about the Compro VideoMate Ultra or VideoMate X800?

Seraphic-

24th June 2006, 20:48

How are those vs. an ATI Wonder Elite 550?

You see, I’m not looking for a TV Tuner. I'm looking for a capture card to capture video games using S-Video from my PlayStation 2. Thus, I need a VERY clean, crisp and sharp image.

Right now I have a Winnov Videum 1000 Plus. And when "use both video fields for high resolution images" is turned on the image is fantastic. However, when this is turned on I also get interlacing during motion and its max resolution is only 640x480. I'm looking to get 720x480 and not having to use a video deinterlacer.

foxyshadis

25th June 2006, 01:54

You'll always get interlacing from PS2 or any other games console (except possibly newer ones if they have an HD output), because they output interlaced video. You'll always have to use a software or hardware deinterlacer (and while hardware sounds nice, the results are usually on par only with the worst software deinterlacers).

Pretty much the only place you can get progressive input is progressive scan DVD players and some rare consoles that have progressive-out, but generally higher framerate is more desireable than progressive video: like here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111347&highlight=1deint).

The cards mentioned in this thread do have deint and 720x480, though.

Seraphic-

25th June 2006, 03:48

You'll always get interlacing from PS2 or any other games console

I don't know about that. I only get interlacing when I turn on use both video fields for high resolution images".

foxyshadis

25th June 2006, 03:55

Well, yes, but that's because the PS2 puts out 2 fields, and you can either keep both (interlaced) or throw one out and resize (so-called dumb bob deinterlace). I'd wager you're getting exactly the same effect as if you captured interlaced and used this avisynth script:

SeparateFields().SelectEven().BicubicResize(width,height*2)

That's why it's "low resolution", because you're only using half the vertical resolution and just faking the rest.

Seraphic-

25th June 2006, 04:33

I don't mind have to deinterlace. However, I get artifacts on the stuff like health bars. But the other issue is I only get 640x480.

I'm not sure if I should wait for the ATI Theater 650 Pro or what here. I'm not even sure if that capture card is as crisp/sharp as Winnov. Does anyone know if the 550 captures both fields?

Seraphic-

27th June 2006, 17:55

Hi BilboFett, does your current ATI Wonder Elite capture both video fields?

chipzoller

30th June 2006, 04:19

Bilbofett,
You said you're intending to capture from VHS...May I ask what VHS player you have chosen for this? I'm ready to buy a VHS player for converting tapes and want to buy a really good SVHS that is moderately professional. I'm still checking various players out but plan on spending max. $300 for one.

hrlslcbr

8th July 2006, 07:59

Hi BilboFett, does your current ATI Wonder Elite capture both video fields?
Yes, it captures both fields. It also captures the 720 possible (horizontal) pixels of each field, so you won't need to set a weird capture resolution to get a proper aspect ratio (not many cards do this).
I've captured some videos from my gamecube and DVD player in 16:9 format and it looks great.
I'd wait for the Theatre 650 pro, though. (it has analogue AND digital tuners, so it'll be more expensive).

Seraphic-

9th July 2006, 11:03

Yes, it captures both fields. It also captures the 720 possible (horizontal) pixels of each field, so you won't need to set a weird capture resolution to get a proper aspect ratio (not many cards do this).
I've captured some videos from my gamecube and DVD player in 16:9 format and it looks great.
I'd wait for the Theatre 650 pro, though. (it has analogue AND digital tuners, so it'll be more expensive).

Thanks for the reply. So the 550 works well with GameCube, eh? I was going to use the 650 with a PS2.

Also, is the video interlaced since it captures both fields?

hrlslcbr

9th July 2006, 23:51

Yes it's interlaced.
Yeah, it works with a gamecube (the audio has a delay of 1-2 seconds, so I use a RCA to 3.5mm jack adapter to capture audio using my soundcard).

Seraphic-

10th July 2006, 02:33

Do you use a deinterlacer or just leave it interlaced?

hrlslcbr

10th July 2006, 05:14

If I want to transfer anything to DVD, leave it interlaced. When I'm using it to play video games, I let winamp tv plug-in do the deinterlacing.

Seraphic-

13th July 2006, 05:32

hrlslcbr

13th July 2006, 06:42

How the heck do you start the winamp tv plug-in capture program? :angry: (Never really used winamp before)

Also, is the video deinterlaced during the capture or you can add files to it for deinterlacing?

Thanks
:D I had the same question when I first installed it.
Open winamp, click 'options'; preferences; and under plug-ins click input. Then double click winamp TV on the right so the configuration window appears. There you can set up the plug-in (click on 'scan' to configure channels). The deinterlacing options are on the 'video' tab (I use Video Mixing renderer 7 YUV Mode, and pixel adaptive as the deint. option). You can save a playlist later so you won't have to set up the channels every time you play something else on winamp. Click any item on the playlist and it'll start capturing.
I hope you understand :p