1st try with Rebuilder (NTSC->PAL) interlaced

[kle500]

Hello there.
This is my first try using Rebuilder for my conversion needs.
Whenever i wanted to convert an NTSC(i) to PAL(i) video, i used a full authoring proccess using Numenu4u and doitfast4u, for demux.

Anyway i said i could give a try to convert my xxx video (NTSC interlace) to (PAL interlace), using the Numenu's feature of NTSC-PAL, and also puting in rebuilder's filter, the folowing script:

ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
LeakKernelBob(order=1, threshold=2)
LanczosResize(720,576)
AssumeTFF
ConvertFPS(50)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

Now the problem is with the REBUILDER.ECL file created.
All the files in the ecl file, are allways: (frame_rate_idx=1).
For exampe, if i use CCE as the encoder, my final mpv files are 23,97 fps.
At first i thought it was a mistake with the CCE, but, after looking at the ecl file that was loaded into CCE, i found the problem.
In Framerate menu in CCE, the 23,97 is the 1st choise, and the 25 (the correct framerate that is on the avs) is at possition 3.
So i changed the idx=1 -> idx=3 and everything is ok.
Is this a bug ?

Also i tryied all the rest encoder choises and i saw that the idx was allways the same idx=1, and the results were the same, 23,97 FPS.
Only in Qenc, the files were perfect (cause the REBUILDER.ECL) was for Qenc, but i have problems with ERROR 0006, in the Rebuild Step.

So my only option is with CCE and manual set the IDX=3.

Anyone has a clue on this?

Regards
George

[jptheripper]

this wont work as your audio isnt being converted.

you would be better off encoding with the resize but without the framrerate conversion, and then flagging your material from 23.976 to 25fps with dgpulldown. How to remux it, once that is done, i have no idea

[kle500]

Audio, is exactly the same. as i use convertFPS, witch blends fields to achieve the conversion. (I use this script about 3 years).
As i said, earlier, only the Qenc, accepts the (idx) correctly, but ends up with Error 0006.

EDIT"
I made a sample dvd, with the above trick (changing idx from 1 to 3 in ecl), after i succesfully finished rebuilding.
The problem is that all the videos in the converted PAL dvd, are less frames than in the original.
I can see the problem in the CCE.
If i load the AVS files created in the TEMP directory, the frames are correct (the lenth of the videos are correct), but if i load the ECL file, i see less frames than the original.
I found out that if i add 100 frames in every (frame_last), i get the correct lenth.
But this way, i get the same ERROR 0006 at the rebuilding stage.

So i am stuck.
Right now i will start a full NTSC(interlace) DVD, without conversion, so i will see if the problem lies in the conversion stage.
I will post tomorow, the results.
Regards

[jptheripper]

cool good luck. I imagine there is a problem with rebuilder trying to flag a stream that is (according to rebuilder) the wrong framerate

[Boulder]

By the way, don't convert to YUY2 before using LeakKernelBob. Place the conversion after LanczosResize and there's no need to use interlaced=true as at that point you've got bobbed video which is progressive.

[kle500]

I finished the test and, allthought i see the same wrong framerate in the encoded clips (23,98), by looking at each clip, the final Rebuilted disk is fine.

The clips into the vob files are now, 29.97 (as they are original).
But why, the REBUILDER.ECL file, misleads the CCE or any other encoder, to encode the clips in the wrong framerate?
Why is this happening?
And how they come back into their original framerate? by 3:2 pulldown?
This is not needed in INTERLACED videos, only in PROGRESSIVE ones.

Anyway, i just wanted to point out, that there is also the need of re-building Interlaced Dvd's too.

[jdobbs]

That framerate isn't wrong -- and if you change it you shouldn't expect DVD-RB to work properly. The 23.976 rate has been chosen as a common denominator as a method for supporting hybrid (telecined/standard mixtures) sources. The rate is set back to what it should be at REBUILD.

[kle500]

@jdobbs
Thank's for the answer to the framerate issue.

I made a small size DVD (NTSC interlaced), with menus and everything for the TEST needs.
After my failure on the NTSC->PAL according to the above problems, i tryied to do a simple NTSC backup (without the step of conversion to PAL), (either from Numenu's option, and in the filters option in RB).
What i saw is that everything works perfect, with any encoder.

So my question is, can i do a standards convertion with the RB?

George

[jdobbs]

No. The way it is currently configured you can't do standards conversions. DVD-RB will not allow the number of frames to change between the PREPARE and REBUILD phases. If it did, it couldn't set flags, etc... so going from NTSC to PAL is pretty much impossible. There's also about 1000 pitfalls that come into being when trying to go in that direction... for example -- there are lots of hybrid sources -- which means the conversion factor isn't constant.

[kle500]

Thank's for saving me time on trying that.
I appreciate.

BTW, what is your preffered encoder on Interlaced material? saying at about 3500 bitrate.
I beleive Procoder is, but i would like to hear from other people too.

Regards
George

[kle500]

Hello there.
I was just reading this topic again, and i was just curious if anything has changed since February.

Is there any possibility to do a Standards Conversion, at least in my case, from NTSC Interlaced 2 PAL Interlaced, without any subtitles?

Sorry for asking again, but maybe something has changed since my last post.

Regarsd
Kle500

[jdobbs]

At some point DVD Rebuilder will do PAL to NTSC conversions. I'd say the reverse will probably never happen, because there is just no way to do it an maintain any level of decent quality -- except maybe for FILM movie-only sources.

[Rockas]

@kle500
It will be easier to buy a €25 DVD Player that plays both systems... well at least here in portugal (as in all PAL countries I know) every set top players and TVs deal with both without any issue, so why bother with the convertion?

[kle500]

@kle500
It will be easier to buy a €25 DVD Player that plays both systems... well at least here in portugal (as in all PAL countries I know) every set top players and TVs deal with both without any issue, so why bother with the convertion?

Thank's guys.
Conversion is not for my needs, that's why i ask.
Right now, i do everything manually and re-author at the end.
I was curious cause Numenu4U, does a preety good job on conversion and i use it all the time for converting menus.

Thank's anyway guys.