Custom video bitrate [Archive]

jggimi

4th July 2006, 17:37

Please do not post the exact same thing twice in two different threads. It's known as "cross posting" and is a violation of Rule #8.

1) You have two different development requests, this and http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=105931, where you posted this same question regarding AGK status.

2) Len0x has ceased development. This has been published fact for many months.

3) Len0x owns the source. Unlike GK, AGK is not an open project.

Dreamer8

4th July 2006, 22:18

Thanks for reply, bad news, really bad. :(

About "cross posting" - it was not exactly the same question, it was a question about current feature request AND AGK status, but I'll try to don't do it again though, now there is even no reason. :(

Now new question about AGK status only, is there any way to contact AGK author about it (above)? I think, he said, he will be ignoring emails...

jggimi

4th July 2006, 22:24

manono

4th July 2006, 23:18

Dreamer8

5th July 2006, 00:36

The AGK Development forum was shut down last year, and merged into this one. There is no active development, and none is expected for the foreseeable future.

You can contact len0x via his website (www.autogk.net) or via PM here, but I would not expect a positive response.
Since AutoGK is free, I really don't see any reason why he should not allow development to other developer, I"ll try to contact him, thanks for information.

Dreamer8

5th July 2006, 00:44

Hi-

I want to convert many small files (videoclips) with the same bitrate,

What's so special about using the same bitrate? Wouldn't you rather have them all at the same quality? If so, choose the fixed width you prefer in the Advanced Options, and choose a Target Quality in the main screen. Maybe experiment a little to find the percentage you like. The file sizes will vary, but each of your videos will have the same even quality. In addition, because Target Quality is 1-pass encoding, doing all these small videos will take much less time.
I already thought about it, do you use it? Do you know what I should use instead of 1MBPS?

I'll try it, but there is still one problem - movies and logoaway, but I'll continue in other topic.

So what I need - (free) software, the same as AutoGK (easy to use) with two aditional features - custom bitrate and ability to use logoaway filter, if AutoGK is dead, could you suggest such software? I tried few, but they didn't work good, or were too complicated. Sorry if it's a bit OT.

manono

5th July 2006, 01:28

Because different videos compress differently, giving them a custom bitrate (based on what?), will lead to results of wildly varying quality. Ordinarily, 2-pass encoding with a specific bitrate is done for a specific filesize, such as 1 or 2 CDs. Since you're encoding a bunch of short videos, then having specific sizes might not matter to you so much.

do you use it?

Do I use what? Constant Quality encoding. Yes, quite often. Actually, if I didn't often need to make my encodes for a specific filesize, I'd use it all the time, as I believe it gives better quality than does multi-pass encoding.

logoaway-there's an AutoGK add on that allows you to halt the process to add an AviSynth filter. BigDid knows about it, and maybe he'll come along and fill you in.

could you suggest such software?

I could be wrong, but I believe that StaxRip has that ability. Some of our other people here would know more than I.

unskinnyboy

5th July 2006, 12:13

logoaway-there's an AutoGK add on that allows you to halt the process to add an AviSynth filter. BigDid knows about it, and maybe he'll come along and fill you in.
AutoGK Tweaker (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=79227) or AGKPal (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=100517) (based on AutoGK Tweaker).

Dreamer8

5th July 2006, 12:29

do you use it?

Do I use what? Constant Quality encoding. Yes, quite often. Actually, if I didn't often need to make my encodes for a specific filesize, I'd use it all the time, as I believe it gives better quality than does multi-pass encoding.
OK, I'll try it, I have few questions about it:

- How big can be difference of bitrate, of "love song" clip and quick dance clip, from 800-1200kb, or 500-1500kb??

- What value - % do you use, what gives me average bitrate 1000kbps?

Thanks in advance.

could you suggest such software?

I could be wrong, but I believe that StaxRip has that ability. Some of our other people here would know more than I.
Already tried, but there are audio/video sync problems, I tried many other programs, but only AutoGK works good.

Dreamer8

5th July 2006, 12:31

AutoGK Tweaker (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=79227) or AGKPal (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=100517) (based on AutoGK Tweaker).
Thank you very much, this is exactly what I need, I'll try it. What is better?

manono

5th July 2006, 13:02

Yeah, those are the ones I couldn't think of. Thanks, unskinnyboy.

- How big can be difference of bitrate, of "love song" clip and quick dance clip, from 800-1200kb, or 500-1500kb??

No way to tell from that little bit of information. Widescreen or fullscreen? 512x384 or 640x480? You'll have to do some tests yourself using different resolutions and different kinds of video clips to find a width and percentage that gives you that combination of quality and filesize that suits you. These are short, so the individual encodings shouldn't take much time. And once you find the settings that suit you, then encoding the whole bunch will go very quickly. You can get the resulting bitrates by opening the completed AVIs in GSpot. You may be surprised at the bitrate spread among videos of the same quality.

- What value - % do you use, what gives me average bitrate 1000kbps?

As I've tried to make clear, there's no way to tell, based on the info so far. I don't even know what kinds of videos they are, do I? Music videos, porn, film of sunsets? Different kinds compress differently. Make a few and check the bitrates in GSpot. The default 75% is very good, but you may find that you can go to 60% or even lower and get results that please you.

Dreamer8

5th July 2006, 15:07

Thanks, I tried it, slow music clip and quick, results:

1 minute - quick clip - Xvid:

1 minute - original MPEG2 (DVB-S) - 29.2MB
1 minute - Xvid - 1000kbps - 9.5MB

20% - 10MB
30% - 14.3MB
40% - 18.5MB
50% - 23.1MB
60% - 27.9MB
70% - 32.9MB
80% - 38.9MB (10MB more that original!!)

1 minute - slow clip - Xvid:

1 minute - original MPEG2 (DVB-S) - 13.5MB
1 minute - Xvid - 1000kbps - 3.4MB (this is strange, same bitrate in Xvid - I know there could be some problems from FAQ, but I have completely reinstalled Xvid before)

20% - 3.4MB!!
30% - 4.1MB
40% - 4.8MB
50% - 5.7MB
60% - 6.6MB
70% - 7.8MB
80% - 9.1MB

Really surprising results, but that videos were really completely different, on purpose.

Resolution 640x480 fullscreen, audio bitrate 192kbps. One more question (or two):

- What resolution should I use, if I want to play it in DVD players/recorders? 640x480 should be good, but some (especially music channels) have resolutions like 480x576, so maybe lower res. would be better. No need to play it in every DVD player that supports Xvid, but at least most of new players should play it.

- What about auto-crop - if resolution will be e.g. 640x362 or 512x310 - it would be like that often, since most music clips are wide now - could such resolutions be played in most of new DVD players too?

Thank you.

manono

5th July 2006, 16:09

Hi-

- What resolution should I use

If you're serious about wanting to average a bitrate of 1000, I sure as heck wouldn't use 640x480 resolutions. DVD/MPEG-4 players are supposed to be able to play XviDs of up to 720x480/576, although a lot of them exhibit stuttering/freezing at the higher resolutions.

- What about auto-crop - if resolution will be e.g. 640x362 or 512x310

Are those hypothetical resolutions? AutoGK will never give you resolutions like those. If you really have videos with those resolutions, they indicate the original encoder didn't know what he was doing. Yes, standalone AVI players handle widescreen video just fine. They're supposed to be able to, anyway. AutoGK will crop away any black bars and give you video with a proper aspect ratio.

Dreamer8

5th July 2006, 20:55

I plan to use quality 40 - 50%. 60% would be almost the same size as original MPEG2, 40-50% is 60-80% size of original MPEG2 for quick clips and 35-45% size of original MPEG2 for (very) slow clips.

So what resolution (or just width, because AR must be 4:3) should I use, if original resolution is 720x576 (mostly movies) - and 480x576, 544x576 (music clips)?

Yes, those resolutions are just hypothetical, so this should be fine, thanks.

manono

6th July 2006, 03:50

I think I'd probably suggest a width of 512. for fullscreen videos. That'll give you a finished video of 512x384, again, if fullscreen. If widescreen, I might go to a slightly wider width, maybe 576. Up to you, though.

Dreamer8

6th July 2006, 14:59

So you don't suggest 640 width? What about "Auto width, Min. / Max Width" options?

And what about movies (higher original bitrate and resolution (720x576))?

manono

6th July 2006, 16:36

You're the one that said he wanted to average a bitrate of 1000. Obviously, with the examples you gave above, the 1000 bitrate produced lousy quality. The lower resolution encodes will be better, although maybe not good enough. If you choose Auto Settings and still go for a 1-pass Target Quality, I think it'll give you something like 720x544.

I say again, experiment until you find settings you like.

Dreamer8

6th July 2006, 23:38

You're the one that said he wanted to average a bitrate of 1000.
Now I have decided, I will be using quality 45-50% for music clips and 2 pass - custom size (700-1000MB) for movies.

If you choose Auto Settings and still go for a 1-pass Target Quality, I think it'll give you something like 720x544.
Not really, for clips with original res. 480x576 it's 480x368.

Some tests (1 minute, quick music clip, 45% quality):

480x368 - 14.7MB
512x384 - 15.5MB
640x480 - 21.4MB
720x544 - 26.1MB

Last looks the best, but it's almost original size, I need to save some space, otherwise - why to compress - and 640x480 looks very good too, I'd save about 30% with quick clips and even more with slow (worse original res./bitrate) clips.

I'm still not sure if I have to use "minimum width" 640 (means 720 for original 720x576) or "fixed" 640, I don't want to use lower res., I have 19" monitor (CRT) and I plan 19" or 21" wide LCD monitor, since I will be using "quality" option, It could be enough.

Dreamer8

7th July 2006, 12:34

2 more questions:

1. Can I use ".credits" hidden option also with "custom file" option? If so, also "greyscale"? And - is this option (.credits) supported by DVD players?

2. If I want to use "Force cropping of" option, will AGK automatically choose (change) these values to "correct" values? If not, it must be multiple of 4, 8, or 16 (I mean heigth)? If I will be using this, I should cut from original heigth (720) or optput heigth (640)?

Thanks. It should be all for "non-logoaway things". :)

unskinnyboy

7th July 2006, 16:55

Dreamer8

7th July 2006, 19:09

Did you read the AutoGK tutorial (written by manono & len0x) available here (http://autogk.me.uk/modules.php?name=TutorialEN)? If not, then do that first. You are just asking questions which are already covered in the tutorial.
Thanks, but I didn't find sufficient answers there:

1. Can I use ".credits" hidden option also with "custom file" option? If so, also "greyscale"? And - is this option (.credits) supported by DVD players?

2. If I want to use "Force cropping of" option, will AGK automatically choose (change) these values to "correct" values? If not, it must be multiple of 4, 8, or 16 (I mean heigth)? If I will be using this, I should cut from original heigth (720) or optput heigth (640)?
I found "ITU-R BT.601 Standard" option there, but there is no clear answer. And I need to know if I can use any heigth value or not.

BigDid

7th July 2006, 20:19

Hi,

(written by manono & len0x)
Missed that one :) , better late than never, thanks to manono (and Len0x) for the tutorial.

1. Can I use ".credits" hidden option also with "custom file" option? If so, also "greyscale"? And - is this option (.credits) supported by DVD players?You mean "custom SIZE" ?
If so, Yes
Yes
Yes

2. If I want to use "Force cropping of" option, will AGK automatically choose (change) these values to "correct" values? If not, it must be multiple of 4, 8, or 16 (I mean heigth)? If I will be using this, I should cut from original heigth (720) or optput heigth (640)?Yes (mod-16) if you check the "tune auto-crop params" box and change the threshold values
If you mix auto-crop + manual crop or use manual crop only, it will be up to you to check, with preview, that your resolution (which is input, not output) will be mod-16

Did

Dreamer8

7th July 2006, 21:09

You mean "custom SIZE" ?
If so, Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes, "custom size", sorry.

Yes (mod-16) if you check the "tune auto-crop params" box and change the threshold values
If you mix auto-crop + manual crop or use manual crop only, it will be up to you to check, with preview, that your resolution (which is input, not output) will be mod-16
So if I will be using "manual crop", I have to check it, always, right? But if it's input resolution (720x576), how can I check output (640x480)? Or it will be correct, always?

If I set manual crop (or manual + auto) width to "mod-16" (so 16, 32, 48, 64...), if should be correct, right?

Thank you.

BigDid

7th July 2006, 22:28

So if I will be using "manual crop", I have to check it, always, right? But if it's input resolution (720x576), how can I check output (640x480)? Or it will be correct, always?...
Some confusion here, I will try to give an example (Dont push me on PAR/DAR):
You have a capture (PAL 720*576) real 16/9, AGK gives you 704*400 (AR 1.76) input; mod16 as near as possible to the original AR.
- First part -
2 possibilities:
1/
crop is ok you go to encode in full auto; depending on final size AGK will calculate a smaller width*height mod16 output compatible like 624*352 (AR 1.77)
2/
crop is not ok cause you have a logo that mess-up, you need more crop:
2a- Tune threshold up (I usually use 68/69 instead of 34), AGK does it's job and you have a 704*384 (AR 1.83) cropped-input; goto 1/ except AGK will calculate a 624*336 (AR 1.85) different output
2-b You can't get that logo away (unbelievable but true :) )
you crop manually 20 pixels up (set threshold to 0); but you are not mod16 !
2-b-1- Go for mod 8 and let AGK limit the bad AR: you crop 4 pixels bottom so you have 20+4=24 8-divisible; goto1
2-b-2- You are a purist and will always keep mod16 (congratulations, you stay out of trouble) you need to crop 12 pixels bottom, goto1

-Second part-
Me want to set specific width: this is ouptut (not input) and the regarding height will be mod16; use the fixed width in advanced settings :)

Unless what I have written is not understandable, please don't read and object! try/test first, re-read the guides and tutorial. Cropping and previewing is a matter of hundreds of seconds or a few minutes, changing params and re-previewing even faster; go for it.

Did

Disclaimer: all this can be inacurrate in a real situation, it's just for the explanation
Edit: Preview is always for the input(avs+d2v); to get a glimpse of the output you will need to wait for the comptest(xvid-1pass) to be finished

Dreamer8

8th July 2006, 01:01

Thank you very much BigDid. :)

Dreamer8

8th July 2006, 12:33

Small question (I'm 99.9% sure, but it's not enough ;) ) - I can crop also odd numbers (e.g. 85 and 79), when output resolution will be mod16, right?

Dreamer8

8th July 2006, 15:30

Problem - I tried to crop original res. 720x576 to 640(fixed width)x336, this res. is also shown as preview (and it's also mod16), but final res. is 640x352, why? Therefore, I can see small part of logo there. :(

I'll try to disable option "Detect and force 4:3 AR", maybe it could help.

manono

8th July 2006, 16:50

I can crop also odd numbers (e.g. 85 and 79), when output resolution will be mod16, right?

No:

http://www.avisynth.org/Crop

This is assuming a DVD source and the YV12 colorspace.

Therefore, I can see small part of logo there.

To help you in figuring how much to crop when neccessary, open the D2V in Gordian Knot and use the cropping part of the Resolution Tab.

Dreamer8

8th July 2006, 21:39

Thank you.

I can crop also odd numbers (e.g. 85 and 79), when output resolution will be mod16, right?

No:

http://www.avisynth.org/Crop

This is assuming a DVD source and the YV12 colorspace.
Strange, I have MPEG2 (DVB-S) source. It's still a bit confusing for me. Could anyone help me please? I'll try to explain (maybe you'll find what I'm doind wrong)...

- Original res. is 720x565 AR 4:3
- I did use Fixed width 640
- Crop 85 (top) and 95 (bottom)
- Preview res. was 640x336 (mod16)
= Final resolution was 640x352 !?

I have already tried to recompress (few hours ago, I didn't read reply above), I did use Crop 86 (top) and 94 (bottom) (mod2).

I'm not sure if AutoGK doesn't need mod16 before resize (to 640xX), if it doesn't find it, then it's changed before resize to 640xX and then it's resized again.

BUT - if I would use mod16 before resize (from original 720xX), then, after resize (to 640xX), it won't be mod16!!? It looks very confusing. :(

I don't want to use GK, because I don't have it installed and it would install other programs and codecs and it could make more problems / conflicts...

Dreamer8

8th July 2006, 22:38

I have already tried to recompress (few hours ago, I didn't read reply above), I did use Crop 86 (top) and 94 (bottom) (mod2).
Done, now the output res. is correct - 640x334. :)

I didn't think odd values could cause problems, because I did use it before in VirtualDub and everything was OK.

manono

8th July 2006, 22:49

That's because if you're capping, your colorspace isn't YV12. Must be RGB24.

640x334 is a bad resolution. 334 is only Mod2.

Dreamer8

8th July 2006, 23:55

That's because if you're capping, your colorspace isn't YV12. Must be RGB24.

640x334 is a bad resolution. 334 is only Mod2.
It's 640x336, so mod16, sorry for confusion, little mistake. :)

However, I have disabled option "Detect and force 4:3 AR" and didn't use any odd values and I don't know what option helped to get correct resolution. But this is not so important now.

Edit: So reason was odd crop values, not "Detect and force 4:3 AR" option.