1 1/2 min blank screen question-strange

[rapscallion]

Using Pro 1.06, CCE 4 pass, movie only mode

This is not a problem, just a curiosity question because I've never seen this before

When playing back original disc SuperBit Lawrence of Arabia disc 2, in PowerDVD 6, the movie starts playing right away (by default, no menu unless selected) at chapter 32, time indicating 1:30 min. This is in fact where the movie continues. (also plays/starts normally in a standalone)

However, when backing up with DVDRB, a 1:30 min blank screen plays before the movie starts. Preview screen after the prepare phase shows V/C 1/1-30 @ .22mb/#32 @.15mb (which can be blanked, of course) Partial screen shot :

http://mysite.verizon.net/fwk323/pics/dvdrb.jpg

Anyone hazard a guess why this strange structure and why DVDRB causes the blank screen instead of starting the movie right away ? Thanks

[jdobbs]

DVD-RB doesn't add anything. I'll take a look at it.

[rapscallion]

jdobbs....perhaps a modification/change of the "ifo" caused this ?

I didn't think RB was adding anything, it's that the backup is now allowing the 1:30 blank, that was already in the first 31 chapters, to now play, when originally it didn't.

[jdobbs]

Did you use any other software on the disc along with DVD-RB? There are "structure protection" mechanisms that can cause this sort of thing... but they normally have no effect on DVD-RB because of the way it works. That might not be the case if you used another package in the interim....

[SpazzHH]

That is intentionally on the disc at the start of Disc 2. It's a blank screen with the intermission music playing in the background. It was done that way in the movie theaters it played in, so for theatrical effect they left it in the DVD. If I recall properly, there is info regarding this either on the back of the jacket, or perhaps even a still in the main menu.

[rapscallion]

jdobbs....only Voblanker to blank the single cell that contains the intermission, 22min into the movie. I'm running AnyDVD, latest ver, and no structural protection present (not likely anyhow as this disc is from 2003).

However, I'm now doing another single pass backup of the disc, untouched, and I'll let you know if the results are the same.*

spazzhh...no, there is no music/intermission at the beginning of disc2, that's 22min into the disc and lasts about 5min. This is strictly 1:30' blank video/audio that counts down the time and the 31 chapters that are 3 sec each...again, only after the rebuild, the original disk starts the movie almost instantly at chptr 32 when loaded ( see sunset screen shot above , which is movie start point)

Edit:*Update results :

Backing up the original, unmodified disc, yielded exactly the same results. 1:30 min of blank video/audio. Also burned to a +RW and it played the same way. Saved the rebuilder.inf/log files in case you're interested in viewing them, jdobbs.

[Trahald]

can you post the summary screen of the original ifo ? (using ifoedit)

'the stand' disk 2 (2 disk movie) has a bunch of stills at the beginning of the movie pgc, but there are ifo commands that tell the player to skip them. wonder if thats something similar.

[rapscallion]

Yes, here it is :
BTW, when I view the cells 1-31 in VoBlanker, they are definitely blank-no images. Same thing in DVDRemake, Shrink, etc. (used shink to cut the blank 1:30' out)


VMG Overview:

Video Manager Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (4:3) (not specified perm.display)
Audio 1: Not Specified (Dolby AC-3) 6ch 48Kbps DRC
SubPicture 1: Not Specified (2-bit rle )

Number of Title Play Maps: 2 (VMG_PTT_SRPT)
Title 1: VTS_02_*, TTN_1 (Angles: 1) (Chapters: 56) (Start Sector 89792)
Title 2: VTS_01_*, TTN_1 (Angles: 1) (Chapters: 2) (Start Sector 288)

Number of Video Title Sets on this DVD: 2 (VMG_VTS_ATRT)
Title Set 1:
VTS_1 Video: MPEG-2 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (16:9) (letterboxed)
VTS_1 Audio 1: English (Dolby AC-3) 6ch 48Kbps DRC
VTS_1 Audio 2: English (DTS ) 6ch 48Kbps DRC

Title Set 2:
VTS_2 Video: MPEG-2 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (16:9) (letterboxed)
VTS_2 Audio 1: English (Dolby AC-3) 6ch 48Kbps DRC
VTS_2 Audio 2: English (DTS ) 6ch 48Kbps DRC
VTS_2 SubPicture 1: English (2-bit rle )
VTS_2 SubPicture 2: Français (2-bit rle )
VTS_2 SubPicture 3: Español (2-bit rle )
VTS_2 SubPicture 4: Portugues (2-bit rle )
VTS_2 SubPicture 5: Chinese (2-bit rle )
VTS_2 SubPicture 6: Korean (2-bit rle )
VTS_2 SubPicture 7: Thai (2-bit rle )


First play PGC: (Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)

Menu Language Units: 1
Language Menu Unit 1: [English]

Language Menu Unit 1: [English]
Menu 1: [entry only] (Programs: 2) (Cells: 2) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)

[jptheripper]

is that the new ifo or the old one..

the "first play pgc" is the one that is likely being messed up

[rapscallion]

That's the old (original) ifo right off the disc.

Here's the ifo from the backup/rebuild, Edit: there is a difference in the start sector :

VMG Overview:

Video Manager Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (16:9) (letterboxed)

Number of Title Play Maps: 1 (VMG_PTT_SRPT)
Title 1: VTS_01_*, TTN_1 (Angles: 1) (Chapters: 56) (Start Sector 6)

Number of Video Title Sets on this DVD: 1 (VMG_VTS_ATRT)
Title Set 1:
VTS_1 Video: MPEG-2 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (16:9) (letterboxed)
VTS_1 Audio 1: English (Dolby AC-3) 6ch 48Kbps DRC


First play PGC: (Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)

[jptheripper]

great troubleshooting. thats obviously the issue, however why it is reset .. is a question only jdobbs can answer.

is the info for the "original" ifo pre or post vobblanker

[rapscallion]

Thanks jptheripper,

That's the original info, pre vobblanker.

It was an easy fix, of course, but interesting that the dvd was structured that way.

[jdobbs]

What happened to the other VTS???

[rapscallion]

Per the op, "movie only mode"

[jdobbs]

Sorry, I didn't notice that. That would explain why the IFO and start sectors changed. The IFO is generated from scratch in Movie-Only mode. Of course the sectors would have to change in any backup mode...

[jptheripper]

i guess movie only mode explains why it was reauthored, and that this mode assumes the movie starts at the beginning (resonable, but unfortunately, not the case here).

[jdobbs]

It doesn't assume it starts at the beginning, it follows the logic of the largest PGC in the largest VTS. I have to assume that in this case the largest PGC started at the beginning.

[rapscallion]

Thanks for all the replies. Very interesting stuff !

This especially intrigued me because it was a super, duper Sony "Super Bit" version of the movie. No extras, minimalist still frame menu. all space supposedly devoted to the best picture quality and highest bitrate. (which is why I thought it strange that they left in the 6 min overture on disc 1 and the 5 min intermission on disc 2) Are there such purists out there that would want those intact ?

Each disc was about 1hr45min and required 74% reduction, but resulted in a beautiful backup ! ( I did use 2 discs)

In spite of the "remastering" by Sony there is some minor, but certainly visible, vertical video flaws at the end of disc 1 and the beginning of disc 2, which I understand is normal for this release.

[jdobbs]

@rapscallion

Going off topic... are you still at Maryland, an Alumnus, or just a fan?

[Sir Didymus]

That would explain why the IFO and start sectors changed. The IFO is generated from scratch in Movie-Only mode. Of course the sectors would have to change in any backup mode...

That's also would explain the whole backup behaviour: the initial chapters on the second disc are most probably just included in order for the player to show the "right" chapter number when playing the title (I mean they are used as a fake chapters) and there should be in the original ifo some pre command or a cell command in the first cell to skip all of these fake chapters, jumping to the actual program start. By reauthoring the DVD just following the pgc lead to lose these commands, with the consequence of including these fake initial segments into the reauthored title... IMHO...

Mhhh. That's also lead to the question (to jdobbs.... :) ) if the pgc commands - with big risks since they may include a complex navigation or jumps to nowhere - should or should not be included in the backup in Movie Only Mode...

Second mhhh. Thinking further on the matter maybe it is better not including the original navigation... Too risky... Better doing manually some post processing of the DVD with PgcEdit in these circumstances...

Edit. I mean, DVD-RB is most probably doing everything in the best possible way; it is the peculiar title that should be (manually ?) adjusted, after the rebuild, in order to play in an order which is not cell-by-cell sequential...

[rapscallion]

@rapscallion

Going off topic... are you still at Maryland, an Alumnus, or just a fan?

jdobbs....I'm an Alumnus, and a fan. Uh,Oh now my age revealed-I graduated in 1965 and was a senior when Gary Williams (current BB coach) was a sophomore.

When he became coach I started following the Terps again. (I ran track and
cross country when I was there).

How about you ??

[jdobbs]

No, I went to Chaminade... but my wife and son both went to Maryland... and my nephew is a freshman there this year.

[rapscallion]

Wow...small world, I grew up in Westbury (Clark H.S.) and still live on Long Island now.

[jdobbs]

Very small...

[rapscallion]

Very small...

Hey, wait a sec, how would you know that I would know where Chaminade is ??

[jdobbs]

Hmmm.... I was talking about Chaminade University in Honolulu... I think you are talking about Chaminade H.S. in New York. I went to H.S. near Chicago.

The small world just got a little bigger...

[rapscallion]

You're right, Chaminade H.S immediatly came to mind, which is why I mentioned Westbury, etc. Honolulu....outstanding jdobbs, or should I say "surfer dude" -:)

Lets's say reasonable size world.

[jdobbs]

:cool: