Distinguishing RipGuard from ARccOS, so far...

[setarip_old]

For any DVD first released since "Madagascar", thusfar (as of 1/25/06), "RipGuard" copy protection can be identified as "NOT being ARccOS" very simply:

1) Load your DVD into DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 (set to "File" mode - select "ALL files", NOT "movie files)

2) IF DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 indicates that it has found "possible structure protection", and "(number) areas have been marked suspect" and "Dummy sectors will be inserted where necessary" - and continues the ripping process and CREATES DUMMY SECTORS and completes the rip without any error notifications - the DVD contains "RipGuard" copy protection

Why should you care? Because with a "RipGuard" copy-protected DVD, the ONLY thing you have to do after ripping with DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 is load the rip into VOBBlanker and click on the "Process" radiobutton. The VOBBlanker-cleaned rip will now be readily processable by DVD Shrink, DVD Rebuilder and any other compression and/or conversion program you wish to use ;>}

As a side note - If you are one who burns uncompressed DVDs to DL media, thusfar (as at 1/25/06) "RipGuard"-protected DVDs require even less processing!

Use DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 in "ISO" mode, with the "ISO Read mode" setting for "Remove IFO structure protection" UNchecked. Simply use "Read ISO" and then "Write ISO" (Select the .MDS file) - and you'll have a perfectly playable DVD, INCLUDING essentially the "RipGuard" copy protection scheme!

[blutach]

As a note, FixVTS (www.videohelp.com/~FixVTS) is usually faster than VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm) after a successful rip of an ARccOS/Rpguard disk.

The best method is to use the plugin from the start - How to backup ARccOS DVDs (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=56831).

Regards

[setarip_old]

There is no need to use PGCEdit and its plugin and "wizard" with "RipGuard" copy protected DVDs that have been produced to date - hence the reason this thread was started and captioned "Distinguishing RipGuard from ARccOS, so far..."...

[blutach]

I don't know why you distinguish between the two. The fact is DVD Decrypter can decrypt some ARccOS DVDs but they have dirty IFOs (and sometimes VOBs - this is where FixVTS (www.videohelp.com/~FixVTS) comes in).

The wizard eliminates all the crap from a DVD and brings it back to pre-ARccOS days. As well, the wizard makes it a breeze to decrypt so that any prog such as DVD Rebuilder (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/) or DVD Shrink will accept it merrily for encoding. Why anyone would want to rip a DVD and leave the ARccOS intact (e.g ISO mode) puzzles me.

But I guess you have better insight into all of this than I.

Regards

[greentech1974]

@ setarip_old
Thank you, that is very informative. I think, what setarip_old is trying to do is, allow those who don't understand that there are two different types of protection, to better understand before they post. What he is in essence saying, is that RipGuard is a totally different beast than ARccOS. Check the problem before you post. If you have a disc from Dreamworks or Disney, chances are its RipGuard, and not ARccOS.

[blutach]

And greentech, I am saying, they are so alike to not be worthwhile distinguishing between.

A person having a problem is gunna post "Can't rip (name of title) properly" or "DVD Shrink can't load it" etc. They don't give a damn what type of protection it is - they just want to get rid of it.

IMO, what the community needs is simply a tool that does it all - whether you only need to fix up the crap that ARccOS/Ripguard puts on a rip, or whether you need to generate a PSL file to rip and then cleanup the crap.

Like, you don't need to know the differences between an automatic and manual transmission to drive a car, do you? They are very different beasts, too. All you really want is to do is go from A to B. In our case, from an encrypted DVD to an unencrypted one.

So, the practicalities say find a method that works on everything (no matter how you might label it). For me, I use the plugin/wizard (not that we here in R4 have seen much ARccOS) simply because of its comprehensiveness. It just makes it less aggravating (as you put it).

Regards

[greentech1974]

Point Taken, however, the fact that there are two seperate types of protection, from two different companies, is important. RipGuard could be updated to stop your plugin/wizard from working, where ARccOS might not be updated for another couple of months or visa versa. If you don't know what you are looking at, for those of us who are trying to help the "DVD Shrink can't load" individuals, then how will you do so? How would you know that this is a new type of protection, or simply a modification of one? The only way to defeat something, is to learn as much about it as possible, analyze the situation, and then attack with ALL knowledge available. I agree with the one program approach, but as long as there are new encryptions hitting the market, we will need the setarip_old types, analyzing the problems, and helping those who need it. And by the way, please don't mention the transmission thing to my wife. She killed two manuals transmissions in 2 years. The automatic has lasted 3 now!

[blutach]

LMAO re your missus - my ex drove a car into the ground without oil once and then without water (few would excuse me for divorcing her!!!)

Just to correct a little mistake - it's not my plugin. It is well-known it is written by The Mad Monk.

Secondly, these new protections are constantly being updated to throw the rippers (they have long since left DVD Shrink behind). However, answers to them from all sorts of products (e.g AnyDVD, plugin, DVD95Copy and even DVD Fab Decrypter) are being introduced quickly. When a new title can't be ripped, all the people behind the rippers go into "update mode".

VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm) is versatile in that it eliminates unreferenced material (till a title was released - can't remember which - where the movie was somehow unreferenced by DVD Shrink!) VB v2.0.1 suffered from not being able to correct multiple VCIDs. Version 2.1.0 fixes this, but this was not a response from jsoto to ARccOS - it was just another feature he put into his already fantastic program.

My point is whatever ARccOS (and I hope you'll permit me to use the term generically) throws at us, the rippers will respond quickly (irrespective of what brand of ARccOS you have). The longest I saw for a solution to appear to a problem was about a week (Seinfeld Season 4 Disk 4).

Regards

[weaver4]

I personally would like to see another approach. All DVDs must be playable on $29 dvd players and software players for the PC and Mac (like powerDVD, WinDVD, Media Player) so it must be possible to "Play" a movie. So these copy-protection schemes must try to make a DVD hard to "copy" but easy to "play".

So I would like to see an approach that plays the movie, but instead of showing the output on the screen take the same data and put it into an uncompressed avi (or other container). Then we could take this avi file (which has audio already in sync) and process it into XviD or DivX or whatever.

[blutach]

You might like to have a look at magic ripper then.

Regards

[setarip_old]

@greentech1974@ setarip_old
Thank you, that is very informative.As always, my pleasure ;>}

@blutachLike, you don't need to know the differences between an automatic and manual transmission to drive a car, do you?The owner of your local transmission repair shop there must be a very wealthy man by now ;>}

[setarip_old]

@weaver4

What you want to do has been done since the advent of video capture boards and DVDs. If you have a videocard with "Video In" capability and capture software, just hook up your standalone DVD player to the videocard and capture the movie-only in real time...

(I think you posted this same question at an earlier date - and I responded similarly)

[weaver4]

@weaver4

What you want to do has been done since the advent of video capture boards and DVDs. If you have a videocard with "Video In" capability and capture software, just hook up your standalone DVD player to the videocard and capture the movie-only in real time...

(I think you posted this same question at an earlier date - and I responded similarly)

Not what I am intrested in. I want a software soluton where I put the DVD in the drive and it plays it and stores the contents in a file. I don't want to use an exteranal player or capture card. What I want is a program like PowerDVD with a capture feature built into it that will save a copy of the movie into a container.

[CWR03]

weaver4, I already mentioned before that Fraps can do what you asked, although it's not internal to the player's program.

[setarip_old]

We, myself included, have veered completely off the topic of this thread. this thread is intended to point out how to specifically identify "RipGuard"-protected DVDs , as apart from "ARccOS"-protected DVDs...

[weaver4]

You might like to have a look at magic ripper then.

Regards

I looked at magic ripper and it looks like just another file-based copy program. I am sure it is very good, but I did not see anything that made me think it was ripping any different that the others. Am I missing something?

[ron spencer]

can amyone explain how ripguard is different than ARccOS in terms what it does to the DVD Structure? If DVD Decryptor can rip it then no wonder M*vision shut it down.

[blutach]

@ron spencer

If you look in terms of the plugin - DVD Decrypter can sometimes rip disks but they can't be loaded by DVD Shrink (what is referred to by seatrip as Ripguard). You need to do some post processing. This is phase 3 of the plugin - the FixVTS (www.videohelp.com/~FixVTS)/VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm) stage.

And, as we know, some DVDs can't be ripped at all (what setarip calls ARccOS) - DVD Decrypter complains of a read error - typically in VTS_0X_1.VOB. For this, you need to generate a PSL2 file, rip it AND run FixVTS (www.videohelp.com/~FixVTS)/VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm).

The point is the plugin does all this automatically. If you don't need a PSL2 (scenario 1), it takes you directly to phase 3. If you do, it'll create one automatically for you, allow you to rip and then run phase 3.

In both situations, you have a perfectly compliant DVD, without dummy sectors that can be loaded and processed by any popular shrinking solution. It's like turning the clock back a couple of years.

As for DVD Fab Decrypter being a panacea, I have found it makes non-compliant rips and has been a laggard in solving problems. Many DVDFD rips can not be processed directly with DVD Shrink without the help of FixVTS (www.videohelp.com/~FixVTS), for example.

Regards

[ron spencer]

ok thanks...this is weird though.

If I understand correctly, Ripguard only DVDs will rip fine, but they cannot be opened in DVDShirnk, etc without post processing.

Now with ARccOS you cannot rip and if you do you still need to post-process.

so why would anyone want to use ripguard, it obviously is not as "good" a "product"


In nay case this solution is better than anydvd, which leaves the blank video in, although you can load into DVDShrink and just alter the start/stop times if you do movie only.

[blutach]

My point is why bother distinguishing? After all, what's in an name?

What we all want is a perfectly compliant decrypted disk and products/methods which work on every occasion.

I find this definitional splitting of hairs useless in a practical sense.

Regards

[ron spencer]

true, but it is interesting to see that there are differences between them

[setarip_old]

@ron spencer

Hi!so why would anyone want to use ripguard, it obviously is not as "good" a "product"Because some studios have undoubtedly signed contracts of some period of time with Macrovision regarding application of "RipGuard" to thair DVDs.

Thusfar, we've seen only one iteration of "RipGuard" - just like, perhaps 18 to 24 months ago, we saw both Universal's feeble "Jumping Boy" protection (also NOT "ARccOS") and the first simplistic version of "ARccOS" (readily dealt with, soon after, by DVD Decrypter and DVD95Copy). Rest assured that, in a manner similar to SONY's continuing development of "ARccOS", we'll see evermore complex iterations of the "RipGuard" copy protection.

My own speculation is that Macrovision is using us (people who wish to make backup copies of their purchased DVDs) as beta testers to gain insight as to what methodology presents a greater degree of difficulty to overcome. Futile, perhaps, but I'm sure there's a lot of studio money supporting the effort.

(If ever they realize that the best "copy protection" so far has proven to be poor physical production quality... ;>})

[blutach]

(If ever they realize that the best "copy protection" so far has proven to be poor physical production quality... ;>})Which we see all too much of.

As for copy protection, what comes along is always beaten, and in very rapid order. I don't think there is any reason to be wringing hands.

Regards

[cynthia_old]

2) IF DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 indicates that it has found "possible structure protection", and "(number) areas have been marked suspect" and "Dummy sectors will be inserted where necessary" - and continues the ripping process and CREATES DUMMY SECTORS and completes the rip without any error notifications - the DVD contains "RipGuard" copy protection:confused:

The swedish version of the Sony released box Seinfeld season 4 contains 4 discs.

Disc 1 and 2 can be ripped with DVD Decrypter. It will show the above identifications; 'possible structure protection' found, 'dummy sectors will be inserted' and you can ripp it without any I/O errors. = RipGuard? (The ripped files can't be loaded in DVD Shrink without generating an error).

Disc 3 and 4 will give you I/O errors - DVD Decrypter can not ripp those discs. = ARccOS.

So by the above statement - Sony is now using the copy protection system RipGuard on some discs and ARccOS on some others?

[setarip_old]

(The ripped files can't be loaded in DVD Shrink without generating an error)You overlooked this part:Because with a "RipGuard" copy-protected DVD, the ONLY thing you have to do after ripping with DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 is load the rip into VOBBlanker and click on the "Process" radiobutton.

[blutach]

And we know it is Ripguard (under your definition) how? Does it say it on the box?

How to distinguish? Just where exactly do they say:

(i) this disk can be decrypted OK with DVD Decrypter don't worry about a thing; or
(ii) this one is Ripguard (as defined) and so you should use DVD Decrypter in ISO mode; or
(iii) this one is the big one baby - pure, unadulterated ARccOS (again, your definition) - so you need to do a whole lot more.

Just where do they tell us this? Hmmm?

Get practical instead of being full of nonsense about nomenclature. People have their own methods of decrypting. Unless they know it has to be done in a certain way, they won't vary their methods.

They need ways that work for all DVDs - not methods which rely on them being clairvoyants!!!

Regards

[johnhamler1]

i dont see the point to install all these copy protections, people become more and more "professional" how to copy DVDs.

to a certain point, they will have to stop or players won't play DVD.
then we will start with a new technology , the blue ray, and we will have "fun" again, to find a way to copy our movies...:D

I really enjoy to have a Sony dvd and spend 3-4 minutes to find out how to crack. Thank you so much sony!:D

[ron spencer]

apparently the authors of anydvd are rewriting their stuff to do their version of a FixVTS or PGCEdit ARccOS plugin...when that is done I guess that will be the "one size fits all" ripper....just rip and all done and fixed...when I do not know

[blutach]

@ron spencer - I know that I advise to use the plugin, but I hope we have a number of tools to choose from that each do a perfect job, so everyone can use their favourite ripper.

@johnhamler1 :D

Regards

[setarip_old]

@johnhamler1

Hi!i dont see the point to install all these copy protectionsIt provides jobs ;>}

[LARRYB]

Any one got a PSL file for this movie? DVDD will not decryptHangs up at 10% .

Larry

[blutach]

Use the wizard - see kill arccos in my signature.

Regards

[Bodysurf]

Like, you don't need to know the differences between an automatic and manual transmission to drive a car, do you? They are very different beasts, too. All you really want is to do is go from A to B. In our case, from an encrypted DVD to an unencrypted one.
If you go to a web-based forum that discusses the same level of knowledge about cars as we do here about A/V, then yes, lots of people would probably want to know about the differences in the transmission types of cars.

Many people here (myself included) like to know the details and not just "click, drool, and copy". I may be speaking only for myself, but for me, the details are part of the fun. The journey and the learning experience is just as fun as getting there.

So yes, I like to know what's going on, the differences, and how to get there.

I think knowing the details gives some of us an appreciation and insight into the process that others simply don't appreciate or even want to appreciate. It's the same insight I believe those of us had who learned how to backup DVDs in the "old days" with vStrip, DVD2AVI, SubRip, Chapter Xtractor, AVISynth, etc.

You don't care about the details, fine. But please don't think because you don't, others don't also. Or even worse, please don't think because you don't care about the details, that others shouldn't and that the topic is inappropriate, irrelevant or unimportant for discussion here.

[writersblock29]

I know that I'm going to be sorry for joining this conversation... but I agree with blutach. While it may be cool to know the difference between Copy Protection Scheme A and Copy Protection Scheme B... at the end of the day, don't you just want to bypass it and back up your disk? Maybe if I made my living screwing customers, I'd like to know of ways to make, say, Ripguard the Be-All-End-All method that defeats every ripper out there. But being a video hobbyist who simply wants to only buy ONE copy of Lord of War in my lifetime... I really don't give a damn. I just want to make a high-qaulity backup. Period. CSS? ARccOS? RipGuard? Alpha-DVD? *Shrug.* Not my concern. Just so long as I can fire up a ripper to remove it and protect my investment, I couldn't care less.

That's just my two cents; and I beleive I owe you some change.

[setarip_old]

@writersblock29

Hi!I know that I'm going to be sorry for joining this conversation...Of course not. A forum, by definition, is an open place for discussion and differences of opinion ;>}

Based on the position you've expressed, it sounds like you should probably have a commercial, true "one-step" backup program as the primary tool in your arsenal. I say this because, despite the fact that there is now a wonderful package of free tools (DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 plus PGCEdit, plus PSL2 plugin, plus VOBBlanker, plus FixVTS) available for processing copy protected DVDs to ultimately be able to create a backup copy, one or some of the commercial programs provide simpler means to accomplish your goal.

But being a video hobbyist who simply wants to only buy ONE copy of Lord of War in my lifetime... I really don't give a damn.I guess you and I (and perhaps others) differ on our views the word "hobbyist". In my view, part of being a "hobbyist" is, to one degree or another, discovering "what makes things tick". While others can recite chapter and verse of the minutiae involved in the structure of .IFO files, my curiosity is usually limited to the more readily observable things - such as the difference between the (current) "flavors" of "RipGuard" and "ARccOS", the readily determined wasted DVD space due to "ARccOS" protection, various methods for converting DVDs to other formats, how to address audio/video anomalies by applying common sense, etc.

As I stated at the outset of this post, a forum, by definition, is an open place for discussion and differences of opinion ;>}

[writersblock29]

@setarip_old

[Qouted]: "I guess you and I (and perhaps others) differ on our views the word 'hobbyist.' In my view, part of being a 'hobbyist' is, to one degree or another, discovering 'what makes things tick.' "

And I guess I really can't argue that point; I spent nearly a year obsessing over CCDs before deciding on what camcorders would be best suited for my videography business. I also obsessed over MPEG encoders back in the day for the same reason. I never really thought about the actual act of backing up movies along the lines as being a hobby, in and of itself; but I've always thought of my love of movies as part of a hobby. Back in the days when you had to pretty much re-author your projects in order to back them up... I kinda saw it as a necessary evil (read: Pain in the butt). I fell in love with one-clickers because they allowed me to go back to watching movies, rather than agonize over whether or not the blasted disk would work once I was all done with it. But I suppose I can understand using the backup process itself as a hobby, rather than a means to an end. It's not "me," but I guess I can understand that.

For many users (myself included), we're bound to not really care what's what; we just want functionality. Put the disk in, click a button that says "any disk done right without a headache," and be done with it. But you're right! This is a forum -- and a specialist one, at that -- so I'll step back and allow the things that tick to be discovered.

Funny... If the MPAA would simply realize that the most effective copy protection they could come up with is *stiffles laughter* REASONABLE PRICING and the freedom to use what one's purchased in whatever manner the BUYER finds acceptable, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Nor would we have so many new protection schemes to constantly defeat.

But then we'd need a new hobby.

--Cheers!

[setarip_old]

@writersblock29For many users (myself included), we're bound to not really care what's what; we just want functionality. Put the disk in, click a button that says "any disk done right without a headache," and be done with it.And that's precisely why I said, "Based on the position you've expressed, it sounds like you should probably have a commercial, true 'one-step' backup program as the primary tool in your arsenal." - and, if you pressed me for one specific suggestion amongst these programs, it would be my hands-down personal favorite, DVD95Copy...

[blutach]

@setarip - He didn't press you and I wonder what this has to do with DVD95Copy and your constant promotion of same over many years now?

@Bodysurf - I never said the topic was inappropriate or irrelevant - all topics are fine, except those off limits under the rules. Please don't read this into my writings.

My point was simply unless a person is really interested in the fine details of DVDs - and folks who know me will correct your impression that I am not one of those interested - Mr Average wants to know HOW to back up his DVDs, not what the name of the protection is. There's nothing to tell him a DVD is only CSS or so-called Ripguard or ARccOS. Only that it needs advanced tools to back up his property. Of course, we are interested in what's what, but surely, what the real user wants is an all purpose tool - one that takes the hassle away from all this advanced copy protection.

And who could disagree with Writersblock29? - if the pricing and replacement policy of DVDs were reasonable, these measures would be entirely unnecessary.

Regards

[greentech1974]

@blutach
Without inciting a riot, and understanding all that has been said, if a member, who was not in fact interested in the finer points of decryption, didn't want to know these things, then why would they link into this thread? If the problem was in fact "error with the fog" then link into that thread. This is a forum on decrypting right?

[blutach]

???

Regards

[jinjin_jp]

Recently I purchased 2 DVDs from amazon, Bewitched-R1(as ARccOS) and Madagascar-R1(as RipGuard), and noticed some point of difference.

About Madagascar, when seeing CellAdress(VTS_C_ADT) of VTS_08(main movie), start sector of cell_1 is not 0 but 512, so sectors(0-511) has no V/C-ID. I've never seen the feature like this.
Sectors(0-511) is corresponding to LBA:1,413,769- 1,414,280, and PSL created by PgcEdit plugin and imported by DVDDecrypter involves 1,413,769- 1,414,280, and inserted Dummy Sectors(LBA: 1413920 - 1414280) when ripping.

And one more noticed, ARccOS is generally said to be used file-mode not ISO-mode (I think because ISO-mode watches blank sectors between files, but file-mode only sectors of file it self), but Madagascar which ripped by ISO-mode has no problem when reading and copressing by DVDShrink,and one by file-mode can't be read with error by DVDShrink.

Is it(Bad Sectors have no V/C-ID) the feature of RipGuard, or not?


Edit:Anyway, both DVDs can be ripped by DVDecrypter+PgcEdit_plugin or DVDFabDecrypter with no problem, I confirmed.

[kis2005]

I have to say that I usually run everything through PGCedit because one never really knows what we have until we try to rip it and if it is ARcoOS then the PSL2 file will be created and I can still clean up the file if it isn't. The wizard just simplifys things and makes sure that I have a clean rip, for one thing with Rip Guard I may get a disc that plays fine in a standalone player but will give me audio synch problems when I process it through Auto GK. So with the Wizard, I still get a clean rip and the choice to use either FixVTS or VOBblanker.