TV-out options [Archive]

Alchy

23rd January 2006, 14:00

I just recently got a pretty nice widescreen TV, which has got 2xSCART sockets (one SCART RGB and one SCART s-video), and inputs on the side for 4-pin s-video and composite (obviously the SCART cables can do composite too). There's probably RF out the back but I'd rather avoid that.

It's right next to my PC, so the question is: how do I get TV out from my PC to the TV without spending loads of cash? My current graphics card doesn't have any TV-out and although I've got one spare AGP card with s-video support it's old and crappy, and I don't want to be swapping cards every time I switch from playing games to watching a movie.

Does anyone have any experience or general comments? I've got decent sound coming out of my PC so I don't need sound to go with it if that's an issue - just video is fine.

I've been thinking along the lines of a cheap Geforce 2mx with s-video out on PCI, but I don't know whether I'd get driver conflicts or something. There appear to be dedicated cards like the Creative DXR but they only output MPEG that they've decoded to s-video as far as I can tell, as they're hardware MPEG decoders (and I hear nothing but problems with XP as well).

Anyone?

SeeMoreDigital

23rd January 2006, 14:45

There appear to be dedicated cards like the Creative DXR but they only output MPEG that they've decoded to s-video as far as I can tell, as they're hardware MPEG decoders (and I hear nothing but problems with XP as well).About three years I installed an old Sigma Hollywood+ card (which is the same as the Creative DXR) in one of my kids WinXP PC's. She uses it quite a bit and has never complained.

I also ran a Sigma Xcard (with MPEG-1/2/4 hardware decoding) in my main PC for many years, without any problems and was very happy with it.

Apart from the additional MPEG-4 hardware decoding, the advantage the Xcard has over the afore mentioned cards is it's ability to pass full component video signals (via the supplied adaptor) or RGB(Y) scart video signals (via an optional adaptor, with break-out plate).

That said... it must be pointed out that neither of these cards are able to display your PC's "desktop" etc, on your TV... if that's what you were after too!

A couple of years ago, I tried getting my hands on a graphics card with "RGB" scart output capabilities, but without success. However, I think that may have changed now!

In-fact, when I was round a friends house a few weeks ago, I noticed his PC graphics card had an S-Video output connector with seven or eight pin holes (ie: more than the usual 4No pin holes). I can only assume this is for a "break-out" box of some kind.... I will have to ask him ;)

Cheers

Alchy

23rd January 2006, 16:16

Ok, thanks for the info. I was shooting for the "desktop on my TV" angle, there's a bunch of games I'd like to play on a big TV.

I'm sure there's an all-in-wonder sort of card that would fulfill most or all of my requirements, but I'm happy with my current VGA card and I certainly don't have the cash to upgrade beyond it at this time. I suppose what I'm after is a stop-gap between my currrent videocard and the next one which I'll make sure comes with proper TV-out.

HardwareGeek

24th January 2006, 08:31

... I've been thinking along the lines of a cheap Geforce 2mx with s-video out on PCI ...I wouldn't try pushing graphics through the old PCI bus. Not that much bandwidth. I've tried it before, and the results were pretty bad. If you do try it, and get different results, let me know.

Only thing I can suggest is an All-In-Wonder or NVIDIA equivalent. Especially if you like to play games.

CWR03

24th January 2006, 09:13

There is a VGA to S-Video converter you might want to try instead - it's a bit pricey but it's cheaper than most video cards. The problem I've run into when gaming on a TV is that if I don't disable the computer monitor the game runs at a much lower framerate. I hadn't expected that because I figured it was just splitting the signal, but aparrently it renders for both outputs. It works fine with either monitor or TV alone, but in your case since you have a widescreen TV it may have to double render, one at standard resolution and one at widescreen.

videomixer9

24th January 2006, 11:12

VIVO cards usually have a breakout box and a svideo connector with more pins, usually you get a box with it that has 4 connectors, 2x svideo 2x composite, one video-in the other video-out.

The only SCART outputs i saw so far was in complete PCs sold here at a discounter :) However for video you won't gain a thing with RGB, video isn't RGB so or so. Actually the svideo and composite seem to look better on regular CRT TVs imo. For gaming ... maybe.

In clonemode there shouldn't be double rendering, what CWR03 explains might be an vertical synchronisation error I guess.

SeeMoreDigital

24th January 2006, 11:36

However for video you won't gain a thing with RGB, video isn't RGB so or so. Actually the svideo and composite seem to look better on regular CRT TVs imo. For gaming ... maybe.I don't agree.

RGB(Y) via scart is able to provide excellent looking images on an interlaced CRT TV. Far better than composite and with improved colour balance than S-video.

Cheers

Alchy

24th January 2006, 14:48

RGB>s-video>composite>RF
RGB has 3 wires dedicated to video, s-video has 2, composite has 1 and RF shares audio and video. RGB should be the best, and anyway there's RGB signal of some kind in VGA IIRC so I'd definitely benefit for games and desktop stuff.

Anyway thanks for all the suggestions. If anyone knows of a decent retailer of "PC to TV" VGA converter boxes in the UK, let me know.

SeeMoreDigital

24th January 2006, 15:47

It should possible to pull a full Y-U-V component video signal directly from your video cards VGA output and convert that to an R-G-B-Y (RGB Scart) signal.

Give the guys at Keene electronics a call (Tel: 0870 999 9000). They might be able to suggest something ;)

Cheers

Alchy

25th January 2006, 16:07

I'll give that a try, thanks :)

zilog jones

2nd February 2006, 21:05

It should possible to pull a full Y-U-V component video signal directly from your video cards VGA output...
Where would they be? VGA uses RGB (not YUV) with separate horizontal and vertical sync - the last part's the problem when trying to get it to work with TVs as they usually only have inputs for composite sync. (that's what SCART uses anyway), so this has to be composited by some external means. It's quite possible to make most graphics cards output a 15kHz interlaced video signal (i.e. TV-friendly), but you will be limited to 480 or 576 line resolution modes - games might not like that...

tareek

3rd February 2006, 08:34

Alchy

4th February 2006, 22:16

i would probably go for a cheap GeForce/NVidia card (may be from ebay, etc) which have s-video out and update the current driver with the latest driver . then it will have option for desktop, or, desktop + video, or, video (overlay) output . will also get (s-vid cable (for vdo) and) an y cable for TRS (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=779707#post779707) stereo male connector to two male RCA connector (for audio) . or, a cheap VGA to S-Video converter, (like CWR03 suggested) .
I've already got a crappy Geforce card with s-video out. I'm not using it because my current card is better.

This (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8755333221) is what I went for in the end. Haven't been able to try it yet thanks to the post office being ultra-picky over the name on the parcel...

tareek

5th February 2006, 00:12

yes, that (Grand Hand View III) model's info looks good . and price (UK$34) looks ok .

sometime back, i bought one of the VGA to Composite (RCA) video converter cable, for around US$15, first one didn't work (worked partially), then the 2nd one finally worked . just had to add an y-cable/converter for the trs audio jack (PC) to RCA jack (TV), for audio .

Alchy

5th February 2006, 19:59

The Grand Hand View III arrived today (gotta love those crazy HK names). It's a bit odd, RGB comes up as black and yellow, but s-video works fine. It's taken all the resolutions it says it would, and it has acceptable video quality. It's a touch disappointing for games, there's a small amount of slowdown when there's a lot of action on-screen. Not enough to be unplayable but still noticeable.

Swin

23rd February 2006, 13:14

I too have been looking for a a decent RGB output via SCART from a PC with my HTPC project in mind. The XCard to me seemed to almost fit the bill perfectly. However, this isn’t a "graphics" card as such, only a MPEG decoder. There is an OEM card available that has a PDI video interface, but I think this is an output for other devices such as post processing cards. As such, you can only output MPEG/DIVx content to the TV screen, no PC content. This renders the card pretty useless for an HTPC setup.

I can across these pages that give details of building you own VGA to SCART lead, however some people seemed to suffer from over scanning issues.

http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/

http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html (newer)

There is also this discussion on the AVForums site that talks about this type of setup.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136811

In addition to these, I came across the Matrox forums that seem to positively encourage leads to be created for TV SCART and Component output from their cards. I know a few years ago the Matrox G400 cards were a force to be reckoned with, but I not sure how they stack up today against ATI and NVIDIA cards.

See http://forum.matrox.com/mga/viewforum.php?f=52

Here’s another resource that MAY work for NVIDIA cards, although the source is very old and there could be driver problems.

http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2tv/circuit.html

Check out the site as well, maybe there something in there.

I think it’s a shame that video card manufactures don not provide the features on the cards that would enable TV hook-up via RGB SCART or component feeds. As the graphics cards are doing the majority of the job anyhow (as can be seen above) it would only require better support in the driver section to enable very good quality TV output..

If anyone find a good, reliable way to get RGB SCART output to a TV from a PC, let me know.

Boulder

24th February 2006, 12:29

Here’s another resource that MAY work for NVIDIA cards, although the source is very old and there could be driver problems.

http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2tv/circuit.html

Check out the site as well, maybe there something in there.

That one should work, there are quite a few people from a hardware forum that use it. The special drivers mentioned means using PowerStrip (for tweaking refresh rates?) IIRC.

Swin

24th February 2006, 14:50

It is a shame that manufacturers seemed to miss the boat with this, but I suppose that as digital flat screens become more popular (and cheaper with better displays) with direct DVI or HDMI inputs, the idea of high quality analogue signal needed to drive the units become a bit less of an issue. I still think this is a bit of a shame as there is still a large market of CRT TV’s (especially in Europe) that will not accept digital input and the quality of S-video feed in not sufficient.

However, this seems to be the way things are going. I got in touch with Matrox to find oput more about thier RGB SCART support for new cards, but they have even dropped the RGB SCART compatibility form their latest P650 and P750 cards. Their Parhelia APVe card does support component out to HD resolutions, but I also believe there are other issue with this card (such as the lack of support for Direct X 9 and only a low OpenGL version supported), which may not be totally suitable for and HTPC. After all, sometimes you may want to play the odd game.