problem with haali's mp4 parser and mpeg-4 asp decoding

[dumbuser]

I realize this forum is for CoreAVC so please bear with me!

I am using the Haali system to try CoreAVC.ax and when I call a H.264 file with any player I have been very impressed. I have used both the Nero and Ateme decoders in the past.

There is a problem with backward compatibility and it depends on your perception of it as to how it should be resolved.

1. When using the Haali splitter under MPEG4 it does support H.264 with no seeming backward compatibility to older MP4 files in an MP4 container. When you uninstall the Haali Splitter it does not restore the prior settings (latest build 1/17/06). You must reinstall the handler for MPEG4. In my case this is
3ivx. I will say this differently so that it is well understood: Halli does not support 3ivx and as we all know this is a standard set of MPEG4 Direct Show filters. So one resolve would be to ask Haali to provide support for MPEG4 in a MP4 container for backward compatibility.

2. While I had Nero installed I had no problems with the Haali Splitter or any file that used the MP4 container. But Nero provides full backward compatibility in one Direct Show filter while CoreAVC does not. So another resolve would be for the CoreAVC Direct Show filter to provide more complete support for the MPEG4 specification. I realize that it is the intent of this group to concentrate its efforts on H.264 and I would suspect that this would not be an easy task.

3. When the Haali splitter is removed and 3ivx is reinstalled the old MP4 files go back to working, but this leaves the system without a handler for H.264 under MP4 even though CoreAVC is still registered. So another solution would be to build a standard Direct Show Source filter and or splitter that would be backward compatible and allow other existing filters to work properly. I truly hope Haali doesn't take offense here, but you should not be relying on someone else to provide support and compatibility.

At the moment I believe this is a major road block and should be resolved before any other considerations. Another way of saying this is that the general public is not going to except the system (no matter how well it works) if when they install it their old files stop working. It's not ready for prime time without a resolve for this problem.

I'm sure that someone here will say: Just install the Nero handler (Source splitter), But this in not open source nor can you distribute it! But, yes it does work!

Thanks for the great work you are doing and I'm looking forward to more! :D

[bond]

There is a problem with backward compatibility and it depends on your perception of it as to how it should be resolved.

1. When using the Haali splitter under MPEG4 it does support H.264 with no seeming backward compatibility to older MP4 files in an MP4 container. When you uninstall the Haali Splitter it does not restore the prior settings (latest build 1/17/06). You must reinstall the handler for MPEG4. In my case this is
3ivx. I will say this differently so that it is well understood: Halli does not support 3ivx and as we all know this is a standard set of MPEG4 Direct Show filters. So one resolve would be to ask Haali to provide support for MPEG4 in a MP4 container for backward compatibility.when you are talking about "mpeg4" i assume you mean mpeg-4 asp/part2?
asp is supported by haali, just make sure you use an asp decoder that can work with haali: ffdshow for example

2. While I had Nero installed I had no problems with the Haali Splitter or any file that used the MP4 container. But Nero provides full backward compatibility in one Direct Show filter while CoreAVC does not. So another resolve would be for the CoreAVC Direct Show filter to provide more complete support for the MPEG4 specification. I realize that it is the intent of this group to concentrate its efforts on H.264 and I would suspect that this would not be an easy task.coreavc is an avc decoder and will never support asp
also asp and avc are totally different formats (even if they are both mpeg-4 standards)

3. When the Haali splitter is removed and 3ivx is reinstalled the old MP4 files go back to working, but this leaves the system without a handler for H.264 under MP4 even though CoreAVC is still registered. So another solution would be to build a standard Direct Show Source filter and or splitter that would be backward compatible and allow other existing filters to work properly. I truly hope Haali doesn't take offense here, but you should not be relying on someone else to provide support and compatibility.haali provides exactly this already

[dumbuser]

when you are talking about "mpeg4" i assume you mean mpeg-4 asp/part2?
asp is supported by haali, just make sure you use an asp decoder that can work with haali: ffdshow for example

Yes! I am referring to mpeg-4 asp/part2.

I will never use ffdshow, it is not now, nor has it ever been a a quality filter in my opinion.

coreavc is an avc decoder and will never support asp
also asp and avc are totally different formats (even if they are both mpeg-4 standards)

Excuse me! But I don't believe I asked you to. I'm explaining the problem and providing possible scenarios to a solution.

I am well aware of the differences!

haali provides exactly this already

If it does then why does the problem I described exist?? Check it out before criticizing. I was quite surprised when I discovered it.

By the way, I have a lot of respect for Haali and believe he is correct in his theories. But we are talking about the same guy who in the last two version keeps getting the thumbnails upside down! lol

[GhengisKhan]

If it does then why does the problem I described exist?? Check it out before criticizing. I was quite surprised when I discovered it.

By the way, I have a lot of respect for Haali and believe he is correct in his theories. But we are talking about the same guy who in the last two version keeps getting the thumbnails upside down! lol


Here's the deal - uninstall 3ivx (it plain and simple sucks and takes over all file associations etc.). Then install something better like DivX or ffdshow (which both are much, much better than 3ivx - is 3ivx even in development?). After that you will have a perfect ASP Dshow filter (which would have been installed with DivX or Ffdshow). You can now use CoreAVC Dshow filter without a problem (Yes 3ivX is the problem - because it takes over the file association that belongs to AVC along with ASP. This is one of the reasons I refuse to install this on any system and highly diregard it. Don't believe me - try it).

As for a Dshow filter for ASP - you can expect than around the time TCPMP 1.0 is released. If you like you can play all your files in the Win32 TCPMP player. This will also solve your issue. Why doesn't Corecodec release an ASP Dshow filter - because they don't need to. ASP is already throughly tested, and is not the type of development that AVC is in TCPMP (which is currently being bettered and tested).

Please, don't ever talk back to someone about something you don't know again. You should respect the knowledge of others. And next time you post something unrelated in a forum like this look around for a better forum first like this one http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103199 . This is a more general TCPMP forum. I suggest you start by asking if there a plan release a Dshow filter for ASP anytime before 1.0 is released. As there is probably no need to test it in the general public I would venture to guess the answer would be no.

Thanks for your understanding. And don't forget - uninstalling 3ivX will solve your problems (even if there was a Dshow filter for ASP out right now you would be advised to uninstall it).

Good luck with your ego,

GhengisKhan

P.S. Betaboy - any time period we can count on seeing the 1.0 release?

Edit: P.P.S. I almost forgot to mention: You aren't having a problem with the AVC Dshow filter or TCPMP at all! Your having a problem with 3ivX, which, like I said, is stealing your AVC file association even though it can't do anything with it (3ivX sucks).

P.P.P.S I'm really sorry I had to say this all in such a cruel way, but such disrespect really angered me.

[BetaBoy]

GK... It is likely to be a little bit longer. We have a few more 'things' for everyone in store and it will take a little while longer to put it all together.

CoreAVC the decoder/encoder/third party licensing/website is another thing we are wokring on ATM.

[niknik]

We have a few more 'things' for everyone in store...
What's next? Playing HD content on a PocketPC? ehehe :)

[dumbuser]

Here's the deal - uninstall 3ivx (it plain and simple sucks and takes over all file associations etc.). Then install something better like DivX or ffdshow (which both are much, much better than 3ivx - is 3ivx even in development?). After that you will have a perfect ASP Dshow filter (which would have been installed with DivX or Ffdshow). You can now use CoreAVC Dshow filter without a problem (Yes 3ivX is the problem - because it takes over the file association that belongs to AVC along with ASP. This is one of the reasons I refuse to install this on any system and highly diregard it. Don't believe me - try it).

As for a Dshow filter for ASP - you can expect than around the time TCPMP 1.0 is released. If you like you can play all your files in the Win32 TCPMP player. This will also solve your issue. Why doesn't Corecodec release an ASP Dshow filter - because they don't need to. ASP is already throughly tested, and is not the type of development that AVC is in TCPMP (which is currently being bettered and tested).

Please, don't ever talk back to someone about something you don't know again. You should respect the knowledge of others. And next time you post something unrelated in a forum like this look around for a better forum first like this one http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103199 . This is a more general TCPMP forum. I suggest you start by asking if there a plan release a Dshow filter for ASP anytime before 1.0 is released. As there is probably no need to test it in the general public I would venture to guess the answer would be no.

Thanks for your understanding. And don't forget - uninstalling 3ivX will solve your problems (even if there was a Dshow filter for ASP out right now you would be advised to uninstall it).

Good luck with your ego,

GhengisKhan

P.S. Betaboy - any time period we can count on seeing the 1.0 release?

Edit: P.P.S. I almost forgot to mention: You aren't having a problem with the AVC Dshow filter or TCPMP at all! Your having a problem with 3ivX, which, like I said, is stealing your AVC file association even though it can't do anything with it (3ivX sucks).

P.P.P.S I'm really sorry I had to say this all in such a cruel way, but such disrespect really angered me.

Thank You For the reply!

But some how you seem to have missed the whole point of the post.

I use filters and containers for there original intended purpose. For example DivX or XviD does their files quite reasonably well but the added support for other MPEG4 formats is very questionable as I regularly run across files that just don't play well. So I use these filters for there intended purpose, IE DivX to play DivX files, XviD to play XviD files and 3vix to play Mp4 files, nothing else. Options exist in each of these filter sets to allow a user to shut off any additional support.

So on this point I agree with you, 3vix sucks when you use it to support other file types but in my opinion so does DivX or XviD.

I have tried ffdshow on many occasions on many different systems including freshly installed systems and had nothing but problems. These have not been system problem per-say but files just don't seem to play right.

Now it was not my intent to come here and ruffle feathers or as you have indicated or to somehow show off. Typically I read what others have to say and if I don't have something constructive to say I don't say anything.

If you read my post again and set aside your prejudice of 3vix (used as an example) I would think that you would notice a ring of truth, assuming you take the time to check it out.

Lets say I remove 3vix and also remove Haali, what is there left to support the CoreAVC filter? To the best of my knowledge, the system would be left without a source filter and or splitter. Therefore AVC files would fail. On the other hand lets say that I left Haali installed. While AVC files would play ASP files would fail. My point is that there is really no alternative for MPEG4 files in an MP4 container.

I'm not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do here. All I did was to describe a problem and propose a few logical scenarios as possible solutions. If you don't like the scenarios make your own.

If you don't understand what this has to do with the CoreAVC filter or why I posted this here and not on another forum is this seem most appropriate here considering every other group that produces an AVC filter also provides support for the native MP4 (ie. Source and or Splitter filters) and in every case the support has been backward compatible to ASP.

My apologies to everyone that was unable to understand my original post or the reason I posted it here.

[CruNcher]

What's next? Playing HD content on a PocketPC? ehehe

if you have one of the new DualCore ones this could be quite possible but i doub't Pocketpcs will ever get such a high display resolution that you could enjoy it maybe throug a external HDMI output tough :P

[[Toff]]

@dumbuser
Maybe you can use the 3ivx splitter with CoreAVC ?
Or Maybe Nero Splitter with CoreAVC?
Or Haali Splitter with CoreAVC and the 3ivx Decoder for MPEG4 ASP ?
There is plenty of possibilities.
And if you have DivX or XviD then you can also enable them to play MPEG4 ASP.
Also as it was said before there is not much common stuff between MPEG4 ASP and MPEG4 AVC.

[GhengisKhan]

']@dumbuser
Maybe you can use the 3ivx splitter with CoreAVC ?
Or Maybe Nero Splitter with CoreAVC?
Or Haali Splitter with CoreAVC and the 3ivx Decoder for MPEG4 ASP ?
There is plenty of possibilities.
And if you have DivX or XviD then you can also enable them to play MPEG4 ASP.
Also as it was said before there is not much common stuff between MPEG4 ASP and MPEG4 AVC.

Thanks, Toff - I'd like to add to that...

I personally, have Xvid, DivX, Nero, x264, and CoreAVC installed, and I have yet to come across a file I couldn't play. For me ffdshow has essentially been a postprocessing filter - if the video files don't look right you can always tweak the settings.

Incase you didn't notice, the CoreAVC DS filter is part of a larger project called TCPMP, which was intially made for PDAs. It is now in the process of branching out other platforms such as Windows (32bit), Symbian, Linux, Mac, and a whole lot more I can't even remeber. Therefore, you won't see too much beyond what is being openly tested until version 1.0 of TCPMP. As Toff mentioned other than the MP4 container and being the two competing codecs for HD content H.263 and H.264 don't have very many similiarities. Therefore, the CoreAVC (or H.264) DSfilter has no need in supporting a different format. Maybe we will see a CoreASP DS filter when TCPMP 1.0 is released, but I don't think you'll be seeing this tested very soon (if at all) since the H.263 codec in TCPMP has been very stable so far and would, therefore, require no testing (yes, this is what this is - we are testing TCPMP's AVC codec).

In that regard, I'm not sure how the outlook is for other DS filters from CoreCodec. Maybe Betaboy can help you with that.

Both DivX and Xvid are able to decode ASP through DS filters. Xvid even gives you the option of selecting which FourCC's you want it to decode or not. If you are willing to give FFdshow a shot, you can always disable it from decoding certain things, and you can manipulate the output (what it darker or brighter, deblock using what alogorithm etc.). I'm sorry but you will be stuck with having to use these DSfilters - with only a hope of a possible CoreASP decoder when TCPMP 1.0 is finished. Again, Betaboy can probably help with answering that.

GhengisKhan

P.S. The key here is AVC and ASP are almost completely different they only share the same container name - mp4.
P.P.S. I did answer your question in my previous post - I hope I simplified it in this one...

[clsid]

My point is that there is really no alternative for MPEG4 files in an MP4 container.XviD 1.1 can play MPEG-4 inside MP4. You need to enable the 'MP4V' FourCC in XviD decoder options. It works fine with Haali splitter.

Now can everybody please get back on topic :P