NEW CODEC! 128 kbps and less for 5.1 surround encoding for MPEG4 (Xvid/Divx) movies

[3dsnar]

Dear All,

I am happy to annonce that we have
just finished a huge 5.1 surround sound
compression research project.


Software tools for encoding movies
with full 5.1 surround,
and
for real time decoding are available now.

www.aud-x.com
THE TECHNOLOGY IS FREE

I hope that you will
find it useful.
All comments are welcome :-)

Peace
3d

[Nic]

Perhaps you could post a little more about how the codec works?

You mention MP3 compatibility (on the website). Could you give us more details on how this works?
(i.e. is this a Multichannel MP3 implementation?)

You also state that the projects uses code from AC3Enc and LAME. You realise that these are LGPL projects and can only be linked to in a certain way? The rules are quite strict...(such as releasing object files of your project when not linking dynamically to the libraries as in Aud-Xs case, etc)

Thanks for any insight,
-Nic

[3dsnar]

> Hi, thanx for interest.

[QUOTE=Nic]Perhaps you could post a little more about how the codec works?

You mention MP3 compatibility (on the website). Could you give us more
details on how this works?
(i.e. is this a Multichannel MP3 implementation?)
> This is not not a Multichannel MP3 implementation.
> Some details related to the codec are available on the web page
> (whitepaper, etc).
> In general some additional information is stored in the mp3 stream,
> however the information is not related to mp3 encoding.
> It is in this way similar to mp3surround, where the multichannel panorama
> is reconstructed based on merged to stereo (or mono) multichannel stream
> and some phase information on how to reconstruct the full 5.1 sound during
> the decoding process are placed between mp3 frames. Frauenhofer stores energy related spectral
> information, which does not allow phase to be properly reconstructed.
> And phase is very important in surround perception... Thus our side
> stream (stored "between" mp3 frames) contains energy + phase info.

You also state that the projects uses code from AC3Enc and LAME. You realise that these are LGPL projects and can only be linked to in a certain way? The rules are quite strict...(such as releasing object files of your project when not linking dynamically to the libraries as in Aud-Xs case, etc)
> I must talk to the software guy who did the implementation.
> But thank you for suggestion! I will make sure that everything is legal.

[Nic]

Thanks :)

Don't know how I missed the whitepaper ( http://www.aud-x.com/images/stories/downloads/aud-x_whitepaper.pdf ). I did look for something of that nature but didn't spot it.

Good luck with your project :)

-Nic

[Sirber]

That would be cool in BeSweet too, so GUI developers could use itin their own app.

[3dsnar]

We will release some DLLs and info on how to use'em,
necessary for BeSweet and other apps.

I hope the project will gain interest among users, but also
among developers. If people really interested in including our codec
will contact us, we will provide the necessary tools :)

[Sirber]

Well, I wouldn't mind including your codec in RealAnime 4 (via beSweet) :D

[3dsnar]

ok, ok, ok.
Please give us couple of weeks to recover.
The last 2 months was crazy ;)
I will post some info when we will publish
the DLLsm

[3dsnar]

BTW. If anyone can help in any way
to popularize the software, that would be ofcourse great! :D
(among users, movie coders, etc)
Any ideas or suggestions?
Please write your thoughts.

[scharfis_brain]

besides the graphs of the computated difference of the Audio compressors, are there representative results from listening (ABX) tests?

[3dsnar]

Unfortunately not. Such tests are time consuming and expensive,
thus I hope that users will test the codec by their own.

[Sirber]

failed to register audxdshow.ax: error -2147024770

on XP SP2, AMD64 3000+, 1GB DDR400 DC.

[Sirber]

Wouldn't your codec be better using HE-AAC instead of MP3?

[3dsnar]

Yeah. Bugs are possible... This is
first release. Please try to restart your computer
and install the codec again. If this will not help,
please let me know.
----------------------
AAC issue:
Well there are problems with AAC and AVI file container...
Although we might do that in the future, because the
technology can be based on any audio compression method
(including also Ogg Vorbis)
This are matters for the future :)

[Sirber]

Sorry I can't restart yet, I'm in the middle of an encoding :) I will let you know later.

[tebasuna51]

Yeah. Bugs are possible... This is
first release. Please try to restart your computer
and install the codec again. If this will not help,
please let me know.
Restarted and reinstalling and same error.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Wouldn't your codec be better using HE-AAC instead of MP3?Agreed ;)

We could really do with some more 6Ch capable AAC-HE (and AAC-LC) encoders. Nero has been the driving force for far too long!


Cheers

[Sirber]

imagine... a 32kbps HE-AAC v2 + PS using their technology :D

5.1 at 32kbps :D

[bobcat56458]

Just thought I’d make mention that the Xvid\DivX 5.1 audio encoding using Aud-X is not limited to DVD’s you have ripped. It also works with as an example a DV home movie that you’ve made a DD5.1 soundtrack for using ursmatl’s V.I stereo to 5.1 VST plugin for Plogue Bidule, and a DD5.1 encoder. This also works with a captured MPEG2 file you've made a DD5.1 soundtrack for. Thanks 3dsnar for your useful tool\codec.

[falcon2000eg]

imagine... a 32kbps HE-AAC v2 + PS using their technology :D

5.1 at 32kbps :D:eek:
You are greedy;)
anyway it is a great idea,i will thier codec at 80kbps and see.

[Sirber]

Does someone got the DS filter work?

[3dsnar]

For those who have problems with registering the codec (DS decoder,
to be more precise). Please check if you can find the file: audxdshow.ax
in windows\system32
If yes, please try to register it manually with for example free DirectShowFilterManager software.
If the audxdshow.ax is not present in system32 at all, please download it
(attached to this post). I am sorry for problems and thank you for patience.
BTW. Did anyone try to encode movie with VirtualDubMod and Aud-X?

[guada 2]

@3Dsnar :)

That is very interesting.
But i noted that it was possible to make (MP3 HQ 192 Khz 48KHZ 5.1) in your guide, whereas you tell in your post that: "New codec! 128 K and less for 5.1"

It's true or no?
Aud-x 1.0 would it be better than the mp3SX 5.1 from Fruehaufer?
Can I use it with a lossless codec?

Thank you to clarify.
Bye. ;)

[3dsnar]

Well, I did not want to complicate the title of the new thread ;)
But in fact Aud-X offers 4 levels of encoding quality, mp3 backwards compatible.

1) STRQ - streaming quality -> 80 kbps (mp3 mono backwards compatible)
2) STDQ - (recommended) standard quality -> 128 kbps (mp3 mono backwards compatible)
3) HGHQ - high quality -> 192 kbps (mp3 stereo, Dolby Pro Logic II backwards compatible)
4) SPBQ - superb quality -> 192 kbps (mp3 mono backwards compatible)
--------------------------------------------
Please read more what is the difference between two 192 kbps options, etc.
In general (although I am not to objective here), our 128 kbps is significantly
better than Frauenhofer 192 kbps! Please read the whitepaper and listen to it by your own.
Our both 192 kbps are far more superior to mp3surround (also 192 kbps), and in fact when listened to the sound produced by HQHQ and SPBQ with 5.1 speakers, the decoded signal cannot be distinguished from the original sound
(based on our informal subjective experiments).
But I think that everyone should make a judgement and subjective evaluation individually :)

[3dsnar]

What do you mean by "use it with a lossless codec"?
Lossless codec for video compression?
Ofcourse, it can be used with any video codec, which can be accessed via
VirutalDubMod, or any other software supporting 6 channels for audio. The software must utilize ACM filters, because Aud-X encoder is such a filter :)
(beside the executable, which also allows to compress with Aud-X, but only separate 6 channel PCM wave files)

[CruNcher]

Has this reached the Hydrogenaudio Community yet ?
3dsnar you should really go there you find the real audio experts over there :)
they also can judge the codec and take it into the next ABX test http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/

[3dsnar]

I will do that. Thank you.

[dimzon]

Wouldn't your codec be better using HE-AAC instead of MP3?
Ogg Vorbis !!!

[bond]

imagine... a 32kbps HE-AAC v2 + PS using their technology :D

5.1 at 32kbps :Dsirber, there is no need to use proprieatary technology for this
mpeg is working itself on a standardised solution for "fake surround info" for aac

[dimzon]

sirber, there is no need to use proprieatary technology for this
mpeg is working itself on a standardised solution for "fake surround info" for aac
AFAIK "Mpeg Surround" standart is out!

[bond]

AFAIK "Mpeg Surround" standart is out!any link (dont confuse it with the proprieatary fhg mp3 surround...)?
if yes i wonder why nero hasnt announced them implementing this already :D

[dimzon]

any link (dont confuse it with the proprieatary fhg mp3 surround...)?
if yes i wonder why nero hasnt announced them implementing this already :D
:scared:
http://codingtechnologies.com/products/mpgsrnd.htm
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t36355.html
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=700616

[Sirber]

From CT: Combining the new MPEG Surround technology with aacPlus provides high audio quality at bit rates in the range of 64 - 96 kbps for 5.1 multichannel audio signals. This further gain of coding efficiency by a factor of 2-3 extends the existing aacPlus family of codecs towards an even more powerful standard suitable for all kinds of application scenarios from mobile music to home theatre in a forward and backward compatible way.

[bond]

:scared:
http://codingtechnologies.com/products/mpgsrnd.htm
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t36355.html
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=700616yes, but this doesnt mean it was standardised for aac, like parametric stereo (eg he-aac v3 or so :D )

[Morpheus_xx]

I'd like to thank you for this great codec!

It's the first (non-AC3) audio format, that my external DD-receiver recognizes as Dolby Digital!

Is this a "feature" of the compression format or more of the decoder?
If so, is there a AAC-decoder that also sends "AC3 format"-flag when decoding 5.1?

[scharfis_brain]

@Morpheus_xx: it is not a AC3-like format. it reencodes the decoded 5.1 audio stream during playback to AC3 and sends it via SPDIF to your Receiver.

@3dsnar: I am not able to append AC3filter to the filterchain, in order to downmik the decoded 5.1 to DPL2, even if I force AC3Filter within MPC.

[SeeMoreDigital]

@Morpheus_xx: it is not a AC3-like format. it reencodes the decoded 5.1 audio stream during playback to AC3 and sends it via SPDIF to your Receiver. Agreed....

I actually use FFdshow's audio filters to transcode 6Ch AAC-LC/HE, 6Ch WMA Pro, 6Ch Vorbis, 6Ch WAV and a few others to 6Ch AC3.... on-the-fly.

So it can be done ;)

[Morpheus_xx]

I actually use FFdshow's audio filters to transcode 6Ch AAC-LC/HE, 6Ch WMA Pro, 6Ch Vorbis, 6Ch WAV and a few others to 6Ch AC3.... on-the-fly.

So it can be done ;)

this is new to me and very interesting! can you explain it a bit more detailed hove to "on the fly transcode aac to ac3"?

[SeeMoreDigital]

this is new to me and very interesting! can you explain it a bit more detailed hove to "on the fly transcode aac to ac3"?This post should help get you started: -

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=718812#post718812

And then there's this one, in the same thread: -

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=718978#post718978


Cheers

[3dsnar]

Please use our front end, if you would like to transcode
Aud-X to AC3 or 6 channel wave (for tests).
--
Yes, we transcode the Aud-X stream to AC3 in real-time in our DSfilter
(so it goes: File -> Aud-X -> 6 ch PCM -> AC3 -> SPDiF)
I hope that this feature is useful (it should be especially for inexperienced users).
Please check the DSfilter structure in our whitepaper @ www.aud-x.com

[shon3i]

I can't register ax file. I try regsvr32 audxdshow.ax but i recivided message "LoadLibrary falied to register file is missing", but i find this ax file into windows\system32 dir

[3dsnar]

Please try to download DirectShowFilterManager.exe
And use it to register the filter. If it does not work,
please let me know.

[shon3i]

link to DirectShowFilterManager.exe

[3dsnar]

http://www.softella.com/dsfm/download/9CB9749C/DSFMgr.zip

[shon3i]

Thanks i try later

[3dsnar]

It seems that LoadLibrary
is missing rather than audxdshow.ax.
Therefore DSFMgr will not help (the same error)!
Maybe someone has an idea what to do:scared:

[Sirber]

3dsnar, Does it load on your side?

[Kurtnoise]

DShow filter works fine for me...[win XP Pro SP2]

Question: why your ACM codec doesn't appear in GraphEdit as Audio compressors ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Question: why your ACM codec doesn't appear in GraphEdit as Audio compressors ?Did you manage to find it showing up anywhere else?


Cheers

[3dsnar]

Yes. Our ACM encoder can be accessed via
the modified Virtual Dub Mod,
The VDM_Aud-X_enabled is available from our web page:
(please check download subpage @ www.aud-x.com)
--
I do not know why it does not appear as audio compressor...
I will have to talk to the guy who wrapped my algorithms
in DS and ACM. He should return from Israel at the end of February :(
--
The filter registering problem is (I think) related to some versions
of windows XP, or maybe it is samewhat related to the firewall...
Honestly, I have no idea (I am not that much into Windows).
If anyone has any ideas, please help.
(BTW. I have tested our installer on plenty of computers,
and the reported problem seems to appear pretty rearly...
since I have never experienced such problems)