issues converting AVI to standard DVD

[HyperSpad]

I recently captured 3 video clips to my computer (aka capture card and composite wire) in MPEG format. The video was taken with a now aging mini VHS video camera. Using Virtualdub, the 3 clips were separately converted to AVI using huffyuv compression and mp3 encoding (even though there wasn't any sound at this point). Then in a separate step, I used VirtualDub's "Append AVI segment" feature to place the 3 clips one after another into a single file, still using huffyuv. Then the single video file was embedded with a wav file for "audio source" and encoded to a 700mb XVID file with 48000Hz 256kbps lame mp3 audio. Now the trick is, it plays fine at this point, but when I attempt to convert it to an mpeg and then burn it to a standard dvd format, my standalone player has issues with it.

While playing on the standalone player, the beginning 7 minutes of the video seems to contain video errors and sound problems. The behavior of the video seems to be comparable to what I'd see if I was attempting to play a video on my computer for which I did not have the proper codec installed. At times, it even seems as if the standalone dvd player is going forward or back a second or two, almost as if it was struggling to read the disc. But the disc is a fresh burn that contains no scratches or smudges and would otherwise be fine playing on my computer in various software media players. Now after about 7 minutes the video plays nearly perfect to the end (26 minutes, 47 seconds) with maybe a few minor, but acceptable video/sound errors.

My question is, why does the "second half" work, but the beginning does not?


VirtualDub was used for all video editing, and TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 and TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6 were used to convert the single AVI file to a standard DVD format. I followed some very detailed guides for TMPGEnc Plus (http://www.rita.lt/dap&js_guides/TMPGEnc_Plus_ILLUSTRATED_GUIDE_(AVItoMPEG)_by_dap&js.zip) and TMPGEnc DVD Author (http://www.rita.lt/dap&js_guides/TMPGEnc_DVD_Author_ILLUSTRATED_GUIDE_by_dap&js.zip), and I'm pretty sure there weren't problems with the guides.


Also, this is the third time I've tried this now, the first attempt was with QuEnc, second with Nero 7's DVD creator, and third was the one just described above, and the last 2 seemed to yield very similar results, so I'm pretty sure I can rule out the DVD conversion/burning process

[setarip_old]

Hi!

Forgive me if there's something in your procedures that I've missed but, if your initial captures are already in MPEG format, why would you convert to .AVI and then re-convert to (DVD-compliant) MPEG?

[HyperSpad]

Originally posted by setarip_old
Forgive me if there's something in your procedures that I've missed but, if your initial captures are already in MPEG format, why would you convert to .AVI and then re-convert to (DVD-compliant) MPEG?Because AVI is what VirtualDub as well as VDubMod works with. Maybe I just never found it, but I don't believe there is an option to output MPEG from VirtualDub or VDubMod.

I haven't tried any other programs to edit MPEGs, i know they're out there, but I was trying to stick with what I know.

-HYPERSPAD

[setarip_old]

You can use "TMPGEnc" to do the same type of basic editing (cutting out sections) as you can in VirtualDubMOD. You can use "TMPGEnc DVD Author" (commercial software) to perform the same type of editing on DVD-compliant MPEG files.

What are you doing in the way of editing unde VirtualDubMOD?

[HyperSpad]

Cutting out small sections, merging 3 video files together, replacing the audio with a wav file, changing the resolution, and adding borders to the edges so the video will fit better on a standard NTSC television. If all these things can be done in TMPGEnc, then I suppose I could redo everything using only that program.

What's annoying now is that I have the whole thing in AVI format nicely sequenced with music, and starting over essentially from scratch is something I wanted to avoid as much as possible. Apparently I'm now paying for assuming it would be simple enough to convert a CD sized AVI file to DVD.

[setarip_old]

If all these things can be done in TMPGEnc, then I suppose I could redo everything using only that program.You should be able to accomplish all of these things under TMPGEnc - but I can understand that you don't want to start from scratch.

However, in re-reading your initial post, I don't see anything indicating whether you played the original (captured) MPEGs or the initial separate .AVIs to make certain that each one played properly, before your editing, merging and re-converting...

[HyperSpad]

It seems that the original MPEG files are ok, but the AVIs they were initially converted to are not. Can you or anyone else recommend a good MPEG editor which is of course capable of saving as MPEG? Because I think we can do a little better than TMPGEnc Plus for the editing part. Its video editing interface is kinda limited and not quite as powerful as programs like VirtualDub.

[spuddog]

Womble MPG VCR or Videoredo

[HyperSpad]

I thought about it a bit, and learned a few new programs and took another pass at it. This time, I recreated the video keeping everything in MPEG format. I used AVISynth to piece together the video from the clips. I then fed the script and background music (wav) directly into TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 to output an MPEG that could be sent to TMPGEnc DVD Author and from there it's pretty straightforward.

Surprise! Same problem...the standalone DVD player can't properly play the first 7 minutes or so of the video. Plus it has difficulty with the menu. I figure it must be because those are written towards the center of the DVD and maybe the player has trouble reading it.

I used FUJI DVD-Rs, so maybe another brand will have better luck. I burned a DVD a few years ago for a "picture video" (Adobe Premiere), and that was in fact a Sony DVD-R. Of course that was also done on a mac, so who knows.

Anyone gets any more ideas, feel free to speak up.


Addendum: I also tried playing the burned DVD on another standalone player...one that's maybe 2 years newer than the other stubborn one, and it played just fine. I guess DVD players are getting better as time goes on.

[setarip_old]

I also tried playing the burned DVD on another standalone player...one that's maybe 2 years newer than the other stubborn one, and it played just fine. I guess DVD players are getting better as time goes on.Now that you know the burned DVD is okay, you might want to run a DVD/CD cleaning disc on your older standalone DVD player. Maxell makes one that retails for approximately $10US...

[HyperSpad]

Now that you know the burned DVD is okay, you might want to run a DVD/CD cleaning disc on your older standalone DVD player. Maxell makes one that retails for approximately $10US...
Could that really fix it though? It never has trouble with normal movie DVDs.

[HyperSpad]

I'm narrowing it down now, and there's only a few more possibilities. I picked up some more DVD-Rs at the store today. I'm going to conduct a little experiment here...

There's going to be 3 different DVD-R brands: FUJIFILM, Panasonic, and Sony. Allow me to explain. FUJIFILM is what I've been trying up until now, and I just realized today that maybe I haven't yet tried burning the DVDs at lower speeds. Perhaps this could be the cause of my troubles.

The standalone player is Panasonic, and I remarkably managed to find Panasonic DVD-Rs at Best Buy today...I think they had 1 pack of 10 in the whole store. So I figure, Panasonic player, Pansonic DVDs, this combination should work, right? We'll see.

And the reason behind Sony requires a little story. About 4 years ago, I worked on a video picture presentation on a mac with Adobe Premiere and burned it to a Sony DVD-R with whatever burning program mac's have by default. It played fine in the Panasonic standalone player back then (and I just tested it 10 minutes ago, and it's still the exact same way it was 4 years ago...this should put to rest any thoughts that the dvd player could require cleaning). So this has convinced me to take a chance with the Sony DVD-Rs. (Yes, I realize that that was a totally different situation and the fact that I was using a different operating system and software to do that back then could have something to do with it, but I'm also willing to bet that the burner I used back then probably had a much lower max speed than the one that's in my machine now. Or maybe Sony DVD-Rs are just easier to play...we'll soon see).


The official materials list:
-FUJIFILM 8x DVD-Rs
-Panasonic 4x DVD-Rs
-SONY 1x-16x DVD-Rs

Alright, so onto the actual experiment...
I'm going to burn 3 DVDs (1 of each brand) at the slowest speed my burner can do (this will vary according to disc brand). I will post the results soon.

The goal of this experiment is to find a practical way to convert VHS tapes to DVD-R in a format that is universal enough to work on a DVD player that is over 4 years old (yet claims DVD-R compatibility on its box, and in its instruction manual)

[HyperSpad]

Just a reminder, this was a homebrew DVD project, video was recorded to MPEG with my capture card, and then a few MPEG segments were cut and joined together with AVISynth. Then TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 and DVD Author handled it from there. All DVDs were played on a standalone fussy 4 year old Panasonic DVD player, unless otherwise noted. It is also assumed that my computer's DVD drive can perfectly play all burned DVDs.

The original problem:
FUJIFILM 8x DVD-R (burned at 8x)
Sometimes it would take maybe 2-3 minutes just to do the initial disc read and arrive at the menu. While playing, it struggled through the beginning. But after the 8 minute mark, it seemed to be fine (maybe a few minor glitches).
I also tried copying a real DVD I had onto one of these and the player still struggled with it, so it's definetly not my video files that are the problem.

Now, onto slower burn speeds...

FUJIFILM 8x DVD-R (burned at 2x)
Actually turned out worse than the one burned at 8x. Now there seem to be errors throughout the video when it is played. I don't understand, shouldn't burning at a slower speed make it easier for the player to read. I will say this though, when I first put the DVD into the player, it was able to read it and arrive at the menu a whole lot faster (within 30 seconds).

Panasonic 4x DVD-Rs (burned at 2x)
Obviously no relation to the Panasonic player, cause these were no different in their results than the FUJIFILM ones were. Their behavior was nearly identical to that of the FUJIFILM ones burned at 2x. Hmmm, maybe brand isn't making a difference here.

Ok, so at this point, I was pretty much predicting that the Sonys would fail too and that maybe it was something to do with my video files and the burning process.

SONY 1x-16x DVD-Rs (burned at 2x)
Miraculously, they work! I can't believe it! I popped it in, it got to the menu in a timely manner, and then it played! I don't know what you did differently Sony, but apparently it worked. Ok, I'm getting ahead of myself here, it wasn't perfect perfect. There were what I would call an acceptable number of glitches throughout the video as it played. And it actually seemed to get worse as the video approached its end (the complete opposite of the FUJIFILM ones burned at 8x). But the video never got as bad as the other ones. The majority of the video was about 95% error free. As it approached the end, it was closer to 75% error free.

So it looks like Sony wins, but not entirely. Sony blank DVD-Rs seem to be the best to use for playback on this player. However, this video was only 26 minutes long, and who knows what might happen if I burned something that filled the disc.

Overall, the real solution is probably just to get a more tolerable DVD player.


Epilogue: I have another DVD player that's about 2 years old and part of a TV, and it didn't seem to have a problem playing the FUJIFILM 8x disc as well as DVD+Rs at all (I didn't test the other burns from my little experiment, but I would assume they'd work as well).