Backing up SW: Revenge of the Sith

[Aquilonious]

I received Sith for Christmas and now I'm trying to back it up using PcgEdit, ImgTool Classic, and ImgBurn. I've already transferred the movie to my drive using DVDFab Decrypter 2.9.6.5.

If I modify the movie in any way, whether via MunuShrink or VobBlanker or Shrink, it loops at the "Fox Entertainment" logo at the beginning of the movie. In other words, the movie never plays past that point--it keeps looping. (Without modification, the movie plays back fine--so the DVDFab transfer is good.)

PcgEdit doesn't indicate any errors, so I really don't know what's going on. I seem to remember someone else posting about this issue but can't remember what forum or when.

I can back up the movie only just fine, using Shrink to remove the extra angles. But I'm one of the few who actually like to include the extras (only pertaining to the movie).

Has anyone successfully backed up Sith with the extras (minus trailers and logos and such)??

[setarip_old]

Has anyone successfully backed up Sith with the extras
There is nothing special in the way of protection for the Region 1 version of this DVD. I successfully backed up the Full Disk in four different ways (I like to experiment ;>} ):

1) DVD95Copy (Rip, Compress, and Burn)

2) DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 to rip (In "File" mode), DVD Shrink to compress, NERO to burn

3) DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 to rip (In "File" mode), DVD2One to compress, NERO to burn

4) DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 to rip (In "ISO" mode), DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 to burn to DL (In "ISO" mode)...

[Aquilonious]

There is nothing special in the way of protection for the Region 1 version of this DVD. I successfully backed up the Full Disk in four different ways (I like to experiment ;>} ):

1) DVD95Copy (Rip, Compress, and Burn)

2) DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 to rip (In "File" mode), DVD Shrink to compress, NERO to burn

3) DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 to rip (In "File" mode), DVD2One to compress, NERO to burn

4) DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 to rip (In "ISO" mode), DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 to burn to DL (In "ISO" mode)...

I removed DVD Decrypter thinking it was no longer legal to use the software. Since then I've been always using the latest version of DVDFab Decrypter (2.9.6.6 as of today).

As I mentioned, the unmodified backup plays fine. When I edit any part of it the movie loops on playback. It also happens on my Episode I & II discs, and I tried DVD Decrypter on both of them.

So I really don't know what's going on. I've done lots of backups but these are really giving me problems. I guess I can just back up everything; but one reason why I like to back up my original DVDs is so I can watch them the way I want to and not the "studio" version with all the nagging trailers, and logo & warning screens.

[setarip_old]

I removed DVD Decrypter thinking it was no longer legal to use the software. Since then I've been always using the latest version of DVDFab Decrypter (2.9.6.6 as of today).
The legality of ALL ripping software is the same. DVd Fab Decrypter is no more and no less legal than DVD Decrypter...

[r0lZ]

Aquilonious, your problem is interesting! ;)
Could you send me your original IFOs (before the PgcEdit stuff)? Send them to pgcedit [at] tiscali [dot] be. Thanks.

[Aquilonious]

Aquilonious, your problem is interesting! ;)
Could you send me your original IFOs (before the PgcEdit stuff)? Send them to pgcedit [at] tiscali [dot] be. Thanks.

I gave up on Sith and decided to do it later. Right now I'm backing up Phantom Menace and it has the same problem as Sith, so I'll be sending those to you in a zip file shortly. All the files are unmodified, only decrypted by DVDFab Decrypter 2.9.6.6 (Dec 28, 2005--latest release). Where I'm having a particular problem is in the First Play PCG section of the VMGM in the VIDEO_TS.IFO file. I usually set the first Pre Command to:

(JumpSS_VTSM) Jump to Titleset Menu
Title Nr=1, TitleSetNr=1, Menu=root

This has worked on most every backup except a few where I set it to jump to the VMGM, Title=1. I do this so I when I play the DVD it goes directly to the main menu.

After I set the Pre Command like above, the movie locks whenever I play it back--whether in Media Player Classic or WMP 10. When I restore the original VIDEO_TS.IFO it the movie plays correctly.

I'm wondering if the multiple (in this case 3) angles have anything to do with the problem? Unfortunately I don't know of any software that strips angles other than DVD Remake/Pro. But I really don't have the money to spend $40 on it for that feature alone. I can strip the angles in DVD Shrink's re-author mode but then I lose the menus+extras.

Can I remove angles via IFO Editor or another such tool?

Thanks for looking into this--I really appreciate it, r0lZ. :)

[r0lZ]

You cannot jump directly from FP-PGC to the root menu, because some important initialization might be skipped. If, for example, a GPRM is used to test if a particular PGC must be played, if that GPRM has not the good value, the same title can be played again and again. Or if the FP-PGC is used to jump to several points of the DVD, you will not be able to go to those points any more.

You should use the PGC -> Jump to PGC upon DVD Insert function. Basically, this function does exactly the same thing, but takes care of the important initialization for you. See the guide here (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/How_to_use_PgcEdit_new_macro.htm).

I haven't received your IFOs yet. But the Jump2PGC method should work.


Angles: Use IfoEdit's strip angles function.
IMO, this problem is (almost certainly) not related to the loop problem.

[Aquilonious]

You cannot jump directly from FP-PGC to the root menu, because some important initialization might be skipped. If, for example, a GPRM is used to test if a particular PGC must be played, if that GPRM has not the good value, the same title can be played again and again. Or if the FP-PGC is used to jump to several points of the DVD, you will not be able to go to those points any more.

You should use the PGC -> Jump to PGC upon DVD Insert function. Basically, this function does exactly the same thing, but takes care of the important initialization for you. See the guide here (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/How_to_use_PgcEdit_new_macro.htm).

I haven't received your IFOs yet. But the Jump2PGC method should work.


Angles: Use IfoEdit's strip angles function.
IMO, this problem is (almost certainly) not related to the loop problem.

I tried to send the files to the email you provided but Google Mail gave me the following message:

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

youremail

Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 9): 553 5.3.0 <youremail>... User unknown

I tried several times but I got the same message.

I did try the guide you mentioned (thanks Blutach!). Using PcgEdit's Trace mode, I was able to determine just where the menu started, VTSM6, LU(en), 21. I inserted a command before the first Pre Command and had it jump to that location. Now the movie plays back fine without looping. :thanks:

I have a few other questions:

1. When opening the backup in PcgEdit I receive an error regarding streams in some VMGM/VTSI_MAT tables (please see attachment) The default action is not to run the macro to fix the streams, so I haven't. Is this something I should be worried about? Should I run the macro? I played the backup and checked the various audio streams in Media Player Classic and everything appears to be ok.

2. I use PcgEdit/ImgTool Classic/ImgBurn to burn my compilations & backups. Should I use the 32k gaps option? Does it provide a better quality burn that adheres more closesly to DVD-Video standard? I looked in the help file but I'm still sort of confused as to what the advantage (or disadvantage) of this option is.

3. When is it best to run FixVTS--run after decrypting the files to my drive or just before burning? And will FixVTS remove the 32k gaps mentioned in question 2 above?

Sorry to be such a pest. I'm still quite new to a lot of this and though I exhaustively search Doom9, I still have many questions. My hope is that my questions will be of benefit to others and not just me. :)

[r0lZ]

1) Don't worry. It is not necessary to clean the streams. You can even turn this option off in the options menu.

2) Yes, if you use PgcEdit/mkisofs/ImgBurn to burn, you should use the 32K gaps option. Your DVD will be somewhat protected against scratches and dust. See here (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/Burning%20With%20PgcEdit.htm).

3) You should use FixVTS only if needed, after your work, especially if you kill playback on some menus. And yes, the 32K gaps are lost, with Shrink too! Reload the DVD and save it again with PgcEdit to restore them, just before burning.

PS. You will find my email address near the bottom of my homepage.

[Aquilonious]

1) Don't worry. It is not necessary to clean the streams. You can even turn this option off in the options menu.

2) Yes, if you use PgcEdit/mkisofs/ImgBurn to burn, you should use the 32K gaps option. Your DVD will be somewhat protected against scratches and dust. See here (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/Burning%20With%20PgcEdit.htm).

3) You should use FixVTS only if needed, after your work, especially if you kill playback on some menus. And yes, the 32K gaps are lost, with Shrink too! Reload the DVD and save it again with PgcEdit to restore them, just before burning.

PS. You will find my email address near the bottom of my homepage.

Email noted--thanks.

So if I run MenuShrink or VobBlanker on any backup (I also typically remove audio streams via Shrink), should I run FixVTS afterwards?

[r0lZ]

No. As his name implies, FixVTS is needed only when there is something to fix.
It can also be used, like VobBlanker, to remove unreferenced cells from the VOBs, and that can be useful if you blank a PGC in PgcEdit, in the menu domain, with the option to remove the references. PgcEdit doesn't process the VOBs, therefore, to regain the space, you need to run FixVTS or VobBlanker on the menu domain.

[Aquilonious]

No. As his name implies, FixVTS is needed only when there is something to fix.
It can also be used, like VobBlanker, to remove unreferenced cells from the VOBs, and that can be useful if you blank a PGC in PgcEdit, in the menu domain, with the option to remove the references. PgcEdit doesn't process the VOBs, therefore, to regain the space, you need to run FixVTS or VobBlanker on the menu domain.

Would you happen to know why an angle icon appears when I play back a multiangle DVD backup? It appears like a camera (at least on my Philips DVP642 player) for the first two scenes of Phantom Menace then disappears afterwards.

I didn't remove the extra angles on Phantom Menace--perhaps I should have. Still, I don't know why it's displaying the angle icon.

[setarip_old]

Would you happen to know why an angle icon appears when I play back a multiangle DVD backup?It appears in order to let you know that you can, at that point, use your remote control's "Angle" button to see something different - In the case of the Star Wars movies, pressing the angle button during the opening scroll will switch from English to French to Spanish (On a Region 1 DVD). For other movies, it may actually offer the opportunity to literally view the same scene from a different angle...

[r0lZ]

You can probably hide this icon if you set the Angle Change PUO in the PGC.

[Aquilonious]

This icon never appears when I play back the original DVDs--it only happens on the multiangle backups that I do. I want to keep it from displaying because it is rather annoying. Even if I try to switch angles or turn it off via the remote, it stays.

I know the angle button appears when you have a DVD that gives you the option to have it prompt you when an extra angle is available, but that is an option you typically select in a DVD's menu and not set by default. (I think Terminator 2 is like this, not sure).

I cleared all the IFO & VOB UPOs via a PcgEdit plugin, so I'm not sure why the icon appears and stays, despite trying to turn it off. It's probably my misunderstanding somewhere.

[setarip_old]

I don't know if this is your specific case but, the camera icon sometimes appears as a consequence of removing .VOB (not .IFO) PUO's, whether via DVD Decrypter or other software...

[r0lZ]

I cleared all the IFO & VOB UPOs via a PcgEdit plugin...The problem is your player. It is stupid and inadmissible to display this icon w/o an option to turn it off.
However, as I said in my prev post, you should try to set (not clear) the Angle Change PUO in the PGC. That should fix the problem.

@setarip_old: I disagree. If the IFO PUO is set, the user cannot change the angle on the fly. It is therefore useless to display the icon. Of course, the same thing is true for the VOB PUO.

[setarip_old]

@r0lZ

One example - Using DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4, I ripped the Region 1 version of "The Incredibles".

The first time, DVD Decrypter was set with a checkmark next to "Remove VOB PUOs", as well as one next to "Remove IFO PUOs". The resultant burned DVD displayed the camera icon at a couple of points during the movie.

I did a second rip with DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 - this time UNchecking "Remove VOB PUOs" (but continuing to have a checkmark next to "Remove IFO PUOs". The resultant burned DVD displayed NO camera icon...

[r0lZ]

That's right. If you have the PUO in at least one place, the prohibition is active, and the icon should not appear. What I said is that you can remove the VOB PUO if you leave the IFO PUO. You made the reverse, and that's also OK.

You said "the camera icon sometimes appears as a consequence of removing .VOB (not .IFO) PUO's", and that is not totally true. You should say "... removing the Angle Change PUO in the VOB and in the IFO".

[Aquilonious]

The problem is your player. It is stupid and inadmissible to display this icon w/o an option to turn it off.
However, as I said in my prev post, you should try to set (not clear) the Angle Change PUO in the PGC. That should fix the problem.

@setarip_old: I disagree. If the IFO PUO is set, the user cannot change the angle on the fly. It is therefore useless to display the icon. Of course, the same thing is true for the VOB PUO.

I'm not at all fond of my Philips DVP642 player. The first one I received wouldn't load discs so I had to return it to Philips' warehouse in KY. Even with the replacement the seeks are so noisy that you can audibly hear them, not to mention a constant "tick-tick" noise when playing any disc. The black level is not nearly as good as what it was on my old 2000 Samsung model. The image is just too dark. Unfortunately the Samsung won't play any burned discs at all, so that's why I got the Philips.

I was so upset after burning two coasters (Verbatim DL discs!) that I just backed up the movie only and bypassed the whole lousy angle issue. For future reference I will certainly remember to set the Angle Change PUO rather than clearing it. I thought that by at least clearing it the player would allow me to turn off the stoopid icon, but I guess that was just wishful thinking. :(

Speaking of DVD players, can you recommend a good Region 1 (NTSC) player under $150? What player do you use?

What I mean by "good" is a player that has no problems reading burned discs, especially DL discs. I'm more concerned about DVD+R playback than DVD-R, since most of my compilations & backups are in the former format.

[r0lZ]

Have a look at VideoHelp.com (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers). There is a list of all players, with user reviews, and you can search the list by media types.

[Aquilonious]

Have a look at VideoHelp.com (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers). There is a list of all players, with user reviews, and you can search the list by media types.

I tried VideoHelp but it doesn't really help much. For example, my Philips DVP642 gets an 8.1 rating, which is very high. I think VideoHelp is more helpful if one is looking for specific features and not necessarily quality. Obviously the rating on my player is quite off, and that's not merely my own opinion:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/philips_dvp642/messages

I think I may opt for a Pioneer DV-588A. I'll have to look at some reviews and owner comments before I make a decision, but it looks to be a good player.