War Of The Worlds

[ElBoricua433]

I am having problems, the results with encoding War Of The Worlds seems to come out bad when it's in dark scenes, it is really noticeable on tv, results comes out bad, I tried everything form different filters to different matrices, even tested out with Rebuilder Matrix Editor, but I always seem to get the same result and it's Movie Only too, this is the log

16:57:53] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- HC encoder selected
- AVS Filters are enabled.
- "Movie Only" mode is enabled.
- VTS_01: 3,056,656 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V & .AVS files
-- Processed 167,680 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 71.2%
- Overall Bitrate : 5,929/4,743Kbs
- Space for Video : 4,049,040KB
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 5,476/600/4,743 Kbs

[SpazzHH]

Try it with no filters(It doesn't need any) and the Fox Home Entertainment Matrix. Which Region disc is it?

[writersblock29]

@ElBoricua433

[Qouted]: "- Overall Bitrate : 5,929/4,743Kbs"

With that beefy a bit rate, a clean source shouldn't need any sort of filtration at all... something's seriously amiss. What are your settings for HC, and which version is it?

Also, see if you can notice the same artifacts in your original. Even though it's an unlikely cause (especially if you've tried running filters), your encoder's going to give its all to reproducing your original stream as closely as possible -- warts and all.

I backed up my copy (region 1) not too long ago, doing the full disk with CCE, and it looked outstanding... no filters needed.

[ElBoricua433]

well it's a full screen and it's R1, and it's the latest version of HC Encoder and the setting is in Best

[setarip_old]

Are you aware that some of the scenes are intentionally dark and grainy?

[ElBoricua433]

no I wasn't aware of that

[setarip_old]

Then I'd suggest you watch your original before you judge your creation...

[writersblock29]

@ElBoricua433

Yeah... Spielberg's latest offerings seem to dig fast shutter speeds on the cameras, giving the footage a gritty feel (like a documentary). While it gives well-lit scenes a good, sharp, amount of detail, it does tend to grain out darker moments. More than likely, this is what you're noticing. Check out your original and see how it looks. If the grain's not to your taste, you can try using both the Undot and Deen filters to try and minimize this if those aren't amoung the filters you've tried yet.

[KSPSlice]

There are quite a few reviews that discuss the grainy picture on this DVD. Here is one http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263344.

[ElBoricua433]

Well yeah in the original it is grainy, but I already tried UnDot, Deen, and FluxSmooth, I still notice some difference in their, like a macroblocks

[manono]

Raise the minimum bitrate.

[ElBoricua433]

with RB-Opt?

[manono]

I don't know. Someone else can tell you that. I was encoding a movie the other day with my usual minimum of 500. It was also a grainy film by Spielberg (Saving Private Ryan). There was an extended scene of some guys talking at night by candlelight. The camera would focus on one at a time. So you'd have a dimly lit face and the rest of the screen was completely black. As I was going over it after the encode, that 5 minute or so scene was horribly macroblocked around the guys' faces. I raised the minimum to (I think) 1200 and it was fine after that. Your average bitrate is high enough that you can afford to raise the minimum, I think.

[ElBoricua433]

Well then how did you raise the minimum bitrate, Manono

[Rippraff]

Rebuilder.ini => under [Options] => min_bitrate=1200

Cu Rippraff

[ElBoricua433]

where is the INI file usually located at?

[manono]

Hi-

I just received your message, came here again, and saw Rippraff's reply. Thanks Rippraff. The Ini File is in the main folder where you have DVD-RB installed. Its name is Rebuilder.ini and the line will look something like this, if you have it directly under the Options line. You may have to create it, not real sure:

[Options]
MIN_BITRATE=1200
CCETargetSectors=2258500
.
.
Unless you want to keep it that way, don't forget to change it (or erase it if you created it) before your next backup. I also added the CCETargetSectors line.

[jdobbs]

Just to reemphasize what manono said... don't forget to change it back after you're done.

Keeping a minimum of 1200 could negatively affect your future encodes, especially those with low overall bitrates

[Boulder]

Also check that the VBR bias value is something like 20-25. This will prevent HC from stealing too many bits from the dark scenes.

[ElBoricua433]

so I can put it anywhere in the notepad in Options?

[Rippraff]

so I can put it anywhere in the notepad in Options?
Yes if your talking about min_bitrate...

Cu Rippraff

[Boulder]

FYI, HC doesn't use a minimum bitrate value so you'll have to use some other encoder if you need the option.

[jdobbs]

Raise the bias and see if that fixes it.

[feedback]

FYI, HC doesn't use a minimum bitrate value so you'll have to use some other encoder if you need the option.
So, having this...MIN_BITRATE=1200 does nothing using HC...it is ignored?
by Boulder: Also check that the VBR bias value is something like 20-25. This will prevent HC from stealing too many bits from the dark scenes.

This information from Boulder above, is in conflict with this information by jdobbs below isn't it?by jdobbs: Raise the bias and see if that fixes it.
So, which is it? Do you want a lower or higher bias to help eliminate the grainy look in War of the Worlds? :confused:

Regards:)

[jdobbs]

This information from Boulder above, is in conflict with this information by jdobbs below isn't it? Not really. The default HC bias is 20 -- he said to try raising it to 25 (if I read it right)... Raising the bias should tell the encoder to allow more bits for lower demand areas (like darkness).

[feedback]

Not really. The default HC bias is 20 -- he said to try raising it to 25 (if I read it right)... Raising the bias should tell the encoder to allow more bits for lower demand areas (like darkness).
O.K., I guess I am reading it wrong. I thought he was indicating you should keep the bias low. Oh well...

Regards,:)

[Boulder]

Raising the bias will raise the bitrate in low-lit scenes as the bitrate curve will be more like CBR. Hank315 said that 25 isn't even that much so the scenes that need more bits (that's where the bits are stolen) shouldn't take a noticable quality hit.

I would try encoding the troublesome segment with different bias values and checking the output. You can use the hc.ini file created by DVD-RB with HC_batch v0.16.

[feedback]

Raising the bias will raise the bitrate in low-lit scenes as the bitrate curve will be more like CBR. Hank315 said that 25 isn't even that much so the scenes that need more bits (that's where the bits are stolen) shouldn't take a noticable quality hit.

I would try encoding the troublesome segment with different bias values and checking the output. You can use the hc.ini file created by DVD-RB with HC_batch v0.16.
Thanks Boulder and jdobbs for clearing up my confusion...guess I had a brainfart.

I actually, as a matter of course, run my bias at 30 using HC and did so with War of the Worlds.
I didn't see a marked improvement at 30 bias in reducing the grain so ElBoricua433 may want to try a higher setting.

I don't know what kind of camera Spielberg used but it seems to make some scenes slightly out of focus and blurry @ about 4 minutes and 50 seconds into the movie...just after he comes roaring home in his car to find his ex-wife and her husband waiting for him.
I don't care for the out of focus, blurry style of film making. :D

Regards,:)

[ElBoricua433]

Okay I did try to raise the minimum bitrate, it still says in the DVD Rebuilder log, 600 and not the one that I put

[jdobbs]

I don't believe the minimum bitrate is shown in the LOG -- do you mean the REBUILDER.ECL?

[ElBoricua433]

I guess so and now they also told me to try some filter called Blockbuster

I put it like this in the Notepad

[Options]
Mode=5
OneClick=0
ReduceOpt=0
NoWarn=1
AdditionalOutput=1
LogFile=1
QuEncHQ=1
EncoderMinimized=1
RemoveDTS=1
HC_Quality=3
HC_Matrix=1
SkinVersion=10
Skin=Rebuilder Default
AudioDub=1
QuEncodeType=0
iDCT=0
GOP=0
DCPrec=0
MainMatrix=Encoder Default
LowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
VLowMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ExtraMatrix=Same as Main Feature
ProCoder_Quality=4
DVD_Label=WAR OF THE WORLDS
DVD_Name=WAR OF THE WORLDS.ISO
MovieOnly=0
HalfD1=00
Convert_16_9=00
DisableInterlace=00
ConvertToYUY2=1
MIN_BITRATE=1000
HC_VBR_Bias=25
[Paths]
QuEnc=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\QuEnc\QuEnc.exe
ReJig=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\ReJig\ReJig.exe
HC=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\HC Encoder\HCbatch.EXE
ProCoder=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\EclPro\EclPro.exe
DECOMB=C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll
MPEG2DEC=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\DGDecode.dll
Working=C:\
Output=C:\
Source=C:\WAR OF THE WORLDS\VIDEO_TS\
[Audio]
Selected=1
Remapping=
[Subpictures]
Selected=11

[Rockas]

I may be wrong but wasn't the "min_bitrate" key working with CCE only?

[jdobbs]

It works for any encoder that supports a minimum bitrate... but he's using HC and I don't believe there is a minimum bitrate in HC.

[Boulder]

Yes, adding Blockbuster(method="noise",variance=0.5,seed=1) in the filter editor might help. If you need more noise (i.e. more bits to darker scenes), raise the variance. Blockbuster can be found at www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises .

[ElBoricua433]

I already got it, I just don't know how to write the script for it, and Uncasms from the Digital Digest said that since DVD Rebuilder is the one making the decisions on bitrates, that it would also work for HC as well

[blutach]

Set it on the Options tab - Filter Editor

Regards

[ElBoricua433]

what like this, Blockbuster(), like everything else?

[Boulder]

Read my last post, the line you need to add is there.

[ElBoricua433]

so what other variances are available?

[Boulder]

It's a float, ranging from 0 to who knows where. I've used values between 0.3 and 0.7. If you use the search, you should find the original release thread in the Avisynth usage forum by SansGrip.